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Westjet Sued Over Unauthorized AC Computer Access  
User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3430 times:

Air Canada sued WestJet Airlines and two of its employees on Tuesday, alleging the discount carrier unauthorizedly used information on a private Air Canada website for business purposes.

The private website is used by Air Canada employees to book personal non-revenue travel and check passenger loads.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20040406.waircan0406/BNStory/Business/

Just a caution to the various AC employees (and their dependants) who love to post the same information on this forum that big brother is watching you....

[Edited 2004-04-07 01:06:55]

32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBOEING747-700 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3359 times:

Oh my my how the tables have turned. I thought WJ doesn't kick someone who is already down.

User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16282 posts, RR: 56
Reply 2, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3307 times:

Let's not blame Westjet just yet. These allegations might only reflect on the former AC employee who joined WJ and possibly the one WJ VP. Clearly, such activity if true is illegal and would not be condoned by WJ.

On a related note, I'm actually surprised WJ would hire any former AC professional staff, even a lowly financial analyst.






Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlinePlanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6193 posts, RR: 34
Reply 3, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3256 times:

Here's AC's proof: Big grin

WestJet's March RPM, Load Factor Up
April 6, 2004

WestJet Airlines recorded more revenue passenger miles in March and its planes flew with a smaller percentage of empty seats year-over-year, Canada's second-largest carrier said on Tuesday.

Calgary, Alberta-based WestJet, a no-frills airline that has been one of the few success stories during a dismal period for the industry, said its March revenue passenger miles rose 31.5 percent to 467 million from 355 million miles for the same month a year earlier.

Load factor rose to 67.7 percent in March, up from 66.8 percent in March 2003.

WestJet's growth in traffic comes as rival carrier Air Canada faces ongoing turmoil. One of the main parties interested in taking a 31 percent stake in Air Canada said last week it was walking away from the deal.

(Reuters)



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 55
Reply 4, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3253 times:

Clearly, such activity if true is illegal and would not be condoned by WJ.

Given the recent lawsuits with Air Canada versus Westjet and the GTAA, Westjet clearly doesn't mind taking legal risks in order to fight off Air Canada. I sincerely doubt, if the allegations are true, that the one individual had an automated software to monitor route profitability using their Air Canada password without the knowlege of Westjet.



"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16282 posts, RR: 56
Reply 5, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3227 times:

I sincerely doubt, if the allegations are true, that the one individual had an automated software to monitor route profitability using their Air Canada password without the knowlege of Westjet.

You are tainting an entire airline with your allegation Nuno. I don't believe any business would condone such activity en masse. If true, these allegations are likely the result of rogue activity by a few WJ employees, and certainly not WJ corporate acquiessence.

Anyway, why would a former AC employee still retain AC access to systems? He should have been cut off the day he left AC. Looks like there are some security issues within AC over this. Surprise. Surprise.






Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineYVRtoYYZ From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 660 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3216 times:

Welcome to the corporate business world where competition is the scenario and profits are the goal. While I do not support the actions taken by this individual, I would be willing to suggest that it most likely is a disgruntled, former AC employee being utilized to further Westjet's profits. Despite my favour of Westjet, I am deeply disappointed by these allegations.

-YVRtoYYZ


User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4344 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3188 times:

While AC certainly should have terminated any system access the moment the employee left the company, that won't serve as a defense if AC can show that Westjet used proprietary data obtained from AC to make route capacity, scheduling and/or pricing decisions. I'm guessing that Canadian law is similar to US, in that the company can be held liable if it can be shown that they could have reasonably been aware the access was going on and/or that the data gained was being used to make decisions. About the only way it could be blamed solely on the employee or a small group of employees is if they were allowed to operate in a vacuum, w/o any management oversight.

Duane



"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16282 posts, RR: 56
Reply 8, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3151 times:

While I do not support the actions taken by this individual, I would be willing to suggest that it most likely is a disgruntled, former AC employee being utilized to further Westjet's profits. Despite my favour of Westjet, I am deeply disappointed by these allegations.

Yes, I see your point. Well summarized. I can definitely see the disgruntled former AC employee potentiality.

It would be disappointing if there was widespread WJ acceptance of this alleged activity. Given that a WJ VP was involved, chances are other WJ are involved if true.

If these allegations are true, WJ should pay the sued amount and of course fire all staff involved.





Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16282 posts, RR: 56
Reply 9, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3142 times:

If there is any lesson in this, it is NEVER hire staff from a competitor.


Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineWGW2707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1197 posts, RR: 34
Reply 10, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3136 times:

I hope Air Canada wins large punitive damages from this.

-WGW2707



[Edited 2004-04-07 02:18:56]

User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3111 times:

It depends Neil. If he retired, or took a package he still has access to the travel website, as they retain a limited number of passes, same goes for employees on lay off, or leave. Anyway I find it hard to imagine that something like this could have been pulled off by just two employees, and given the close relationship between Mark Hill and Clive, I would be surprised if he had no knowledge of what was going on. I would agree with your other post, "If these allegations are true, WJ should pay the sued amount and of course fire all staff involved." even if that includes a founding VP.



"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16282 posts, RR: 56
Reply 12, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3085 times:

given the close relationship between Mark Hill and Clive, I would be surprised if he had no knowledge of what was going on.

That thought crossed my mind also Slawko. Let's see how it plays out. The financial damages are potentially small but a few careers could be over.

If the allegations are true, this could bring the apparently euphoric Westjet corporate environment down to a more sober level, which will help WJ in the long run as it grows and matures.






Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineCanadaEH From Canada, joined Jul 2003, 1341 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3030 times:

I'm really curious to see how this all unfolds. Who was involved and who knew about it?

I also have to question the timing of this. It's no secret how public the whole Tnew/T2/YYZ debacle has been with Westjet, Air Canada, and the GTAA, I wonder if this is good timing as well? I'm not about to start pointing fingers because at this point in time nobody knows ANYTHING aside from what is mentioned in the news article.

Curiously awaiting more details..........



EH.
User currently offlineYVRtoYYZ From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 660 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2994 times:

Another conspiracy theory suggestion here. Given the debacle between WJ, AC and the GTAA, could anyone within the GTAA have accessed such information and passed it along to someone-with-rank in WJ as a method of 'compensation' for being unable to deliver on their promise of gates and slots in T1 New?

-YVRtoYYZ


User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2958 times:

HAHAHAHA Maybe it was a CJ employee who quit jetsgo after being laid off from Air Canada because they were former Canadian, and wanted to see Canadian Regional come back to life so they sent this info to Westjet, so that they could put AC out of business, and Jazz could be sold and re-branded as Canadian Regional and they could quit canjet and go back to CRA...
 Smile



"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineCPDC10-30 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2000, 4785 posts, RR: 23
Reply 16, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2948 times:

Quite interesting that this type of thing only comes up with almost a quarter of a million accesses. My feeling is that AC knew this was going on long ago but only now has conclusive proof that WS is using this information to competitive advantage. With the stats given, that means that information was accessed over 750 times per day.

The egg right now is on AC's face though. What kind of company is so stupid to allow someone who no longer has ties to the company access to confidential information? They were asking for this if you believe me. They should have arranged some other type of buyout package for the employees invloved.


User currently offlineCessnapimp From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 1320 posts, RR: 19
Reply 17, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2825 times:

I dunno...

... be kinda cool if they got 14 billion out of it...


User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4785 posts, RR: 43
Reply 18, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2750 times:

this though a serious charge is very childish because can AC actually expect WJ to provide figures for performace of those flights and how can they prove that it was due to that website that WJ changed its schedules etc etc. When this was being accessed around the 50,000th time, then why couldnt AC take action then...why wait till the 243,000th time.



User currently offlineCPDC10-30 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2000, 4785 posts, RR: 23
Reply 19, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2714 times:

When this was being accessed around the 50,000th time, then why couldnt AC take action then...why wait till the 243,000th time

You would think that with over just a few hundred accesses they would shut down the account. It almost seems like they wanted to catch WestJet with their pants down and reap some free publicity.


User currently offlineJean leloup From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 2116 posts, RR: 19
Reply 20, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2681 times:

I think it's their right to take action when they feel it's appropriate, even if it means waiting until they have conclusive evidence. I find it odd that some users seem to be trying to get Westjet off the hook, here... I love 'em but these acts seem pretty indefensible, and Air Canada is well within their right to take action, in my opinion.


Next flight.... who knows.
User currently offlineCPDC10-30 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2000, 4785 posts, RR: 23
Reply 21, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2656 times:

Air Canada is well within their right to take action, in my opinion.

Yes, but there is proof that AC didn't want to stop the flow of information. They are more interested in the publicity and the potential award from the lawsuit. If they were concerned about confidential information spreading to WS, they would have disabled the account long before. That makes the whole case lose some of its credibility.


User currently offlineTravelmark From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 60 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2466 times:

I read to many conspiracy books......here's a thought....AC knew for a long while that this was going on.....they should have changed all the information regarding payloads to screw around with WJ!

User currently offlineWhiteguy From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 793 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2362 times:
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It sure is a different story when WS gets caught. If it was AC doing this the fit would hit the shan, everybody would be calling it criminal and running to the competition bureau. Yyz717 would be in the background yelling liquidate, but no everybody is going to wait because it was only in the paper, which of course can only be believed if its talking about AC.



User currently offlineNorthStarDC4M From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 3024 posts, RR: 36
Reply 24, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2322 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

Well, Air Canada's IT department really needs to be reigned in and reorganised from the sounds of it. Why on earth are they allowing off-site unmonitored access to this system without even so much as requiring regular password changes!? I mean come on, thats security 101 guys! They should be changing the password every 30-45 days and either doing it user by user (aka each user has their own password, and if it isnt changed every cycle the account gets cut) or distributing the password via a secured internal system.

Not only that, some sources have stated that connections to this server are unencrypted and passwords transmitted in plain text, it's like no one is watching the store over there.



Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
25 Skywatcher : I read an article which stated that the idiot who is accused of the misadventure had a 5 year severance package that included the right to free AC tic
26 Dash8King : Yep Westjet should pay, they screwed up. Why would they let that go on when they can physically count the pax?
27 JAL777 : If there is any lesson in this, it is NEVER hire staff from a competitor. Correction. If there is any lesson in this, it is to treat your employees so
28 EA CO AS : The airline alleges Lafond's identification number was used 243,630 times between May 15, 2003, and March 19, 2004, to access the website. That's cert
29 Yyz717 : The airline alleges Lafond's identification number was used 243,630 times between May 15, 2003, and March 19, 2004, to access the website. That's abou
30 EA CO AS : That's about 200 business days, so over 1000 hits per business day. If these hit volumes are true, it must have been MANY Westjet staff who were invol
31 CanadianPilot : The individual who did this was given a 'package' from Air Canada when he left. A few company travel passes every year. To book flights on a company p
32 Post contains links Yyz717 : The Westjet analyst and VP have now been placed on paid leave pending an internal investigation, as reported in todays paper. The attached editorial i
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