Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
JAT To Renew Its Fleet; Boeing Main Candidate!  
User currently offlineSobelair From Croatia, joined Sep 2000, 353 posts, RR: 1
Posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5329 times:



Hi!

here's the link to the article (in Serbian though only)
http://www.politika.co.yu/cyr/tekst.asp-t=3553&r=60.htm

Anyway, JAT's new managing director announced the airline plans to purchase new aircraft by the end of this year. The criteria would be the experience and affiliation with the manufacturer type, in JAT's case the most likely winner would be Boeing. Apparently, JAT employees also expressed desire to continue with Boeing.

JAT needs immediately new fleet, since the average age of its aircraft is 21 years! Incredible. I didn't know its that old.

The problem poses the agreement reached with Airbus in 1998, to whose account 23 million $ have already been paid.

What do you think what kind of Boeing aircraft will JAT buy? And how will they manage to buy Boieng aircraft when the US has most recently cut off financial assistance to Serbia? Interesting.



 Smile/happy/getting dizzy



27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlying-Tiger From Germany, joined exactly 15 years ago today! , 4161 posts, RR: 36
Reply 1, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5206 times:

Difficult question. Short-range you'll find nothing else than the B737NG (-700/800) would be most likely. But I doubt that we'll see an order soon - not much chance that they will be able to finance it outright. More likely that they are going to lease a few birds from somewhere.

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders



Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
User currently offlineVSGirl From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5194 times:

Would JAT even need a long haul fleet!?

Kimberly.


User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 5157 times:

Airmale,

how can you relate sanctions against Serbia to religion? There were strict political reasons for sanctions against Serbia. And btw, Serbia was once punished for killing innocent people, including many muslims. So please have a closer look on facts.
And as far as I know, there aren't any sanctions any more.

To return to the main topic: I don't think JAT is interested that much in ordering new long haul equipment. The long haul market out of Serbia is very limited, they will most likely order new aircraft for short and medium haul services.
And B777s would be to expensive anyways, plus too large. And I'm quite sure we will never see again a new customer for the B764. Not enough range and payload, and too large for JAT.


Regards
Udo


User currently offlineSobelair From Croatia, joined Sep 2000, 353 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 5089 times:



If I were JAT, I would focus the order exclusively on lets say 737-600. I don't know how many aircraft they plan to order, will the add them to 737-300 or replace the entire current 737 fleet!? A bit confusing. But I think JAT needs a replacemnet for DC9. And 737-600 could be an excellent option for short hops into the region and also for West European services. It would be better to offer twice daily 737-600 flight rather than once per day with larger aircraft.

And eventually 737-800 for charters and high-density routes (London, Paris, Zurich). Simple as that. Though I would keep the 737-300 for a while for sure, no reason to dispose of it. Add as soon as possible five or so 737-600 and two or three 737-800 sometiem later once 737-400 leases expire, and there you go.

Nothing for the long haul. But for the regional flights? Oh my God, why don't they purchase CRJs or lets say five used AVROs?! Or Fokker 70?! Why do they need extra 100-seaters... I don't get it. Every airline is developing regional services, why not JAT!?


User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4990 times:

JAT and the Serbian Govt know very well which side their bread is buttered - they may WANT Boeings, but they'll probably buy Airbus.

User currently offlineGreaser From Bahamas, joined Jan 2004, 1101 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4988 times:

Solnabo, i'm never surprised by your anti-Boeing remarks


Now you're really flying
User currently offline717fan From Switzerland, joined Nov 2001, 2017 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4889 times:

Hey, don't forget the 717.....

User currently offlineSobelair From Croatia, joined Sep 2000, 353 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4829 times:

Right!

I forgot about it completely. I think JAT would love to have 717 as a replacement for the DC9 fleet.  Wink/being sarcastic And I think it would be simply GREAT if that happens. I keep my fingers crossed. Meybe it would be even better that 737-600, or any other 737NG, who knows!? Lets wait and see.

I miss those DC9s flying around.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy



User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 31
Reply 9, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4800 times:

Given their financial limits and limited markets...wouldn't it be better to go for used aircraft? Not too old, well maintained...should be available at knockout prices right now!


I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlineHorus From Egypt, joined Feb 2004, 5230 posts, RR: 59
Reply 10, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4781 times:

VSgirl, even though I do agree with you that they don't really have a large long-haul market besides Australia and the US, I think the wide-body aircraft will be used for high capacity routes rather than long-haul routes. When they leased a DC-10 from Cubana, they used it on routes to the Mediterranean holiday resorts. They were a common visitor to the Red Sea resorts of Egypt, coming in a few times a week back then.


As for the short-haul replacement I think the 737NG is more likely than the A32X. As for the long-haul fleet, I think it will be more complicated. The 777 is too large and expensive, the A330 and A340 will result them in operating too many aircraft types in a small fleet, the 764 is very unlikely and the 7E7 is still years away and hasn't been formally launched yet.



EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
User currently offlineAdria From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4760 times:

Airbus is most likely going to win the deal. If I am not mistaken they have some options on the A319?

User currently offlineSobelair From Croatia, joined Sep 2000, 353 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4735 times:

Yep.

That's right. The contract was for 8 fixed orders for 319 plus 8 options on this aircraft type.


User currently offlineHorus From Egypt, joined Feb 2004, 5230 posts, RR: 59
Reply 13, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 4684 times:

Well I guess if that's the case, then the A332 is most likely gonna be ordered for the long-haul/wide body fleet.


EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
User currently offlineDuke From Canada, joined Sep 1999, 1155 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4543 times:

Drop it, UDO, you don't know much of what really happened in the former Yugoslavia, do you?

User currently offlineAlitalia7e7 From Australia, joined Mar 2004, 185 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4403 times:

Horus, JAT Does not fly to Australia, perhaps only JFK in the USA but unsure. Prior to the war, JAT had a great Asian/Pacific and North American Network, it even had plans to go to South America. JAT has great potential and cannot wait till it gets back to the size and if not bigger like it used to be. But PLEASE bring back the old livery!

User currently offlineJU101 From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 832 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4261 times:

Hi Sobelair,

Thats a nice posting you gave. Unfortunately I was not able to read the article. Perhaps the link is outdated. In any event, I think the new director is just blowing some hot air. It is unlikely that the airline will purchase new aircraft anytime soon. Here is why:

The better side of the fleet consists of the following aircraft:
- 10 B-737-300s (YU-AND, ANF, ANH, ANI, ANJ, ANK, ANL, ANV, ANW, AON)
- 3 B-737-400s (YU-AOO, AOR, AOS)
- 4 ATR-72-200s (YU-ALN, ALO, ALP, ALR)

The average of the of the above fleet is somewhere around 17 years.

The older fleet consists of the following operational aircraft:
- 1 DC-10-30 (mainly leased abroad)
- 5 DC-9-30 (mainly leased abroad)
- 2 B-727-200 (leased abroad)

I am sure that when these older aircraft approach their next C-check, they will be scrapped. Out of these aircraft, only one or two DC-9s will be active on mainly domestic flights, while the rest will continue their lease abroad. These older planes are essentially making clean profit for the airline, and there will be no rush to get rid of them, as is the case with Northwest Airlines from the United States.

JAT have invested lots in their 737-300 fleet, and it would be pointless to sell them. Furthermore, the 737-400s will be around for at least the next three years, so there will be no replacement for them either. If it becomes necessary for more aircraft, they would readily lease additional 737s (such as the YU-AON, AOO, AOR, AOS). I anticipate JAT to not make mid-range aircraft purchases anytime soon, other than for deliveries destined for the later part of this decade. In that case, newer generation 737s would be favorable.

Nevertheless, reasons for ordering new Boeing aircraft:

- Ordering new 737s: Boeing would decide that Belgrade is the most favorable location for opening a sizeable Boeing service center, covering the entire Eastern and Southeast Europe 737 market.

- Ordering longhaul fleet: Boeing would probably lobby the U.S. Department of Transport, to allow JAT more favorable treatment. The new management in JAT are perhaps more willing to resume flights to more North American destinations than the one lead by Predrag Vujovic.

- The airline has a long-standing relationship with Boeing and U.S. companies.

- The U.S. and Serbian government are currently conducting a feasibility study regarding a significant expansion of Belgrade airport. The project is known as "Kapija Srbije".

- For political reasons, where the U.S. would be more supportive of the policy of Serbia towards the province of Kosovo and Metohia, drop the criticism in terms of cooperation with the Hague tribunal, would lobby the EU for speedy membership, and perhaps open the door to more investment opportunities.

Any comments?


User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12466 posts, RR: 46
Reply 17, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4187 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

But, as previously stated, JAT has a firm order for 8 A319 (plus options) on Airbus' books. Why would Airbus let them walk away from that for free?


Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 968 posts, RR: 51
Reply 18, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4147 times:

But, as previously stated, JAT has a firm order for 8 A319 (plus options) on Airbus' books. Why would Airbus let them walk away from that for free?

That never stopped ANA, EasyJet, or Qantas from switching manufactures.

Regards,
DFW


User currently offlineMark_D. From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 1447 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4086 times:

Duke -- Drop it, UDO, you don't know much of what really happened in the former Yugoslavia, do you ?

You drop it, Dukey, he may just know way the heck more 'n you do, about it  Smile


As for JAT's fleet plans -- with or without foreign politcs attached-- well the history sure leans towards Boeing, doesn't it. However personally I think they'd be better off long-term --including politics attached-- by going Airbus instead.




User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12466 posts, RR: 46
Reply 20, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4040 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

That never stopped ANA, EasyJet, or Qantas from switching manufactures.

Yes, that's true, but each of those examples is different from JAT.
ANA has decided to go all Boeing, even though they have 8 A320 still to be delivered from their order for 28 (when will they get their first 737?), and have publicly stated that the 737s will replace the A320s.
EasyJet will operate a mixed fleet for the foreseeable future. Have they actually said they will ditch the 737s in favour of Airbus? I don't think so. In fact, operating a dual fleet may actually pay them if they're in the market for more planes in a few years - both manufacturers will know they have a chance to win the order.
Qantas haven't switched manufacturers unless I'm very mistaken. They've ordered A320 for their LCC startup, and have just ordered additional 737s for their mainline operation.

All these are different situations from JAT's - they need new planes, and have planes (that will meet the requirement) on order from Airbus. Presumably, they would have to pay a significant penalty to cancel that order (which is not a situation any of the other airlines you mentioned were in).



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineHorus From Egypt, joined Feb 2004, 5230 posts, RR: 59
Reply 21, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3988 times:

Alitalia7e7, I know JAT don't serve OZ, I said that it was one of the destinations I think they could operate due to the large number of expats who live there


EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
User currently offlineDc863 From Denmark, joined Jun 1999, 1558 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3894 times:

At least 2 767-300ERs should be ordered. They can be used to some of their former Far East destinations and to Canada and the US. 737-600s and -700s for North Africa and the Middle East. Perhaps the 717 for Europe with some 737-800s for the more dense London,Paris, Frankfurt ops.

User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4769 posts, RR: 43
Reply 23, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3844 times:

JAT doesnt need an aircraft of the size of an A 343 nor a B 772ER. What JAT needs to replace the DC 10s of its fleet is the B 763ER which is their best option if u ask me.

As for the regional fleet...the best replacement would be concentrating it around the B 737-700 with winglets. And as for smaller density flights, the SAAB 200 is good enough with 50 seats and a decent range.

So in short :

DC 10s to be replaced by B 763ERs
B 737 Classics to be replaced by B 737-700s
SAAB 200s replacing any small aircraft of the 50 seater capacity that they might have.

Theyre plenty of B 763ERs in the market these days that can be leased in or bought out directly at a vvvv low price so JAT should take advantage of this ASAP. They should however order brand new B 737-700s and in the meantime continue to fly their B 733-734s for the next 2 years until the B 737NGs arrive.


User currently offlineSobelair From Croatia, joined Sep 2000, 353 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3782 times:



Very nice.

For long haul 767-300ER. Lets say two.
Lets say 737-700 with winglets. For example ten.
And for the regional flights SAAB 2000. I might exaggerate, but lets put the number also at ten.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

I would eventually add to this perhaps few 717s?! For regional routes with higher demand as well as thiner European flights (Vienna, Milan, Rome).

The fleet would be awesome!!! And put back on the tails the old JAT's egg...!!!

No, its too good to be true.
 Wink/being sarcastic


25 Horus : The 763ERs seems like the best solution, but if the airline wants to renew the fleet with new aircraft, then I doubt they will go for such an old airc
26 JU101 : Did I miss something? The ATRs are barely 10 years old. Why even suggest buying new regional planes?
27 Post contains images Solnabo : Once againe: I love Boeing a/c, EXEPT 737 and I´m gonna speak my mind, even if I get thrown out! Childish, I know.. Mind you, there´s a bunch of Bus
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
When Will SA Need To Renew It's Fleet? posted Mon Oct 2 2006 05:42:15 by JAM747
JAT To Reposes Its 733s From Macedonian posted Mon Aug 1 2005 19:19:23 by JoKeR
Turkish Airlines To Expand Its Fleet posted Fri Nov 21 2003 11:02:47 by Wing
Air Asia To Expand Its Fleet To 18 B733 posted Thu Jun 19 2003 01:56:06 by OdiE
Lithuanian Airlines To Renew It's Fleet With 737 posted Fri Feb 14 2003 22:14:49 by Sonic
Cyprus Airways Wants To Upgrade Its Fleet. posted Wed Jun 21 2000 16:40:03 by BOS-CDG
Boeing Looks To Secure Its Titanium posted Mon Apr 24 2006 18:55:17 by Leelaw
ExpressJet To Lose A Quarter Of Its Fleet! posted Thu Dec 29 2005 20:21:05 by SHUPirate1
Airbus And Boeing To Renew Qantas Talks Early 06 posted Mon Dec 19 2005 22:30:59 by Keesje
Lufthansa Prepares To Renew Fleet posted Mon Dec 19 2005 18:25:58 by Columba
When Will SA Need To Renew It's Fleet? posted Mon Oct 2 2006 05:42:15 by JAM747
JAT To Reposes Its 733s From Macedonian posted Mon Aug 1 2005 19:19:23 by JoKeR
Turkish Airlines To Expand Its Fleet posted Fri Nov 21 2003 11:02:47 by Wing
Air Asia To Expand Its Fleet To 18 B733 posted Thu Jun 19 2003 01:56:06 by OdiE
Lithuanian Airlines To Renew It's Fleet With 737 posted Fri Feb 14 2003 22:14:49 by Sonic
Cyprus Airways Wants To Upgrade Its Fleet. posted Wed Jun 21 2000 16:40:03 by BOS-CDG
Delamination Prompts Boeing To Inspect 787 Fleet posted Sat Feb 4 2012 19:03:00 by RNOcommctr
Qatar To Delay IPO, To Use GTL For Half Its Fleet posted Wed Oct 5 2011 14:34:45 by QatarA340