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Unions Overestimate Again....  
User currently offlineBoingGoingGone From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2191 times:

Laughable... the unions have done more damage in the last 10 years to the airline industry. Way to go Mesa Dispatchers.

Press Release Source: Mesa Air Group, Inc.


Flight Dispatchers at Mesa Air Group Subsidiaries Overwhelming Reject Unionization Drive
Wednesday April 7, 1:54 pm ET


PHOENIX, April 7 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Mesa Air Group, Inc. (Nasdaq: MESA - News) announced today that it had received the results of an election by Flight Dispatchers at Mesa Air Group subsidiaries in which the dispatchers at Mesa Airlines, Freedom Airlines and Air Midwest overwhelmingly rejected a unionization drive advanced by the Transport Workers Union (TWU). The election was conducted by the National Mediation Board. Of the 43 eligible voters, 32 (74%) chose not to unionize and not to be represented by the TWU.

"Mesa has strived to maintain a close relationship with its dispatchers based on open communication and "out of the box" employee initiatives. We believe the merits of our approach were reflected in this vote," said Jonathan Ornstein, Mesa's Chairman and Chief Executive Officer. "More importantly, Mesa's dispatchers have rejected the standard industry labor model, which we believe to be broken, that has unfortunately resulted in furloughs, concessions and overall employee dissatisfaction at many carriers. Our dispatchers have instead embraced an incentive based compensation and benefit package tied directly to the company's performance that combines competitive wages with multiple bonus programs and stock options. We would like to thank all of our dispatchers for their support. With this vote of confidence, we can continue to offer opportunity and job security to our dispatchers while working together to create and maintain an industry leading atmosphere aimed at achieving our common goals," noted Ornstein.

This press release contains various forward-looking statements that are based on management's beliefs, as well as assumptions made by and information currently available to management. Although the Company believes that the expectations reflected in such forward-looking statements are reasonable; it can give no assurance that such expectations will prove to have been correct. Such statements are subject to certain risks, uncertainties and assumptions. Should one or more of these risks or uncertainties materialize, or should underlying assumptions prove incorrect, actual results may vary materially from those anticipated, estimated, projected or expected. The Company does not intend to update these forward-looking statements prior to its next required filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

Mesa currently operates 169 aircraft with over 1,000 daily system departures to over 160 cities, 42 states, the District of Columbia, Canada, Mexico and the Bahamas. It operates in the West and Midwest as America West Express; the Midwest and East as US Airways Express; in Chicago, Denver and Los Angeles as United Express; in Kansas City with Midwest Express and in New Mexico and Texas as Mesa Airlines. The Company, which was founded in New Mexico in 1982, has approximately 4,400 employees. Mesa is a member of the Regional Airline Association and Regional Aviation Partners.




[Edited 2004-04-07 22:47:52]

22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineHAL From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2560 posts, RR: 53
Reply 1, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2092 times:

Not hardly worth a comment, but I will anyway, just because.

The Mesa dispatchers had a choice, and made it. That's fine. Does that make unions the source of everything evil? Hardly. Employees have the right as a group to band together and negotiate with the company. The company has every right to say yes or no to those negotiations. If the company management is stupid enough to approve a contract that causes financial harm to the company, that is just as bad to them as the employees. With unions, there is balance in the power between mangement and employees.

What was there before unions? Sweatshops, child labor, 7 day work weeks, and starvation wages. Did unions solve all this themselves? Of course not. But they were a large part of the balancing act that allowed the US to become the industrial powerhouse that it still is today, and provide one of the highest standards of living in the world.

Is business against labor unions? For the most part, of course! Why? Because the main purpose of management is to maximize shareholder value. What is the unions main purpose? Good wages, working conditions, and lifestyle for the employees - things that are not on the top of managements to-do list. Those two usually pull in opposite directions, but work best when there is a balance between them.

So you said: the unions have done more damage in the last 10 years to the airline industry.

Remember, the unions don't write their own contracts and impose them on the company. They have to be signed by management too. The blame for the past 10 years is equally shared.

HAL



One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2045 times:

>>>Way to go Mesa Dispatchers.

So, I guess -you're- a Mesa dispatcher then, cognizant of all the issues involved....  Insane

(Not weighing in for/against the vote, just marveling at your lack of objectivity as someone supposedly employed as an "analyst").

As HAL pointed out, there is a balance involved...



User currently offlineBoingGoingGone From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 1992 times:

As HAL pointed out, there is a balance involved...

Yeah, like at Comair? Just pointing out the obvious.


Almost forgot, analysts don't know anything. I'll shut up.

[Edited 2004-04-08 05:22:51]

User currently offlineHAL From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2560 posts, RR: 53
Reply 4, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1962 times:

Yeah, like at Comair? Just pointing out the obvious.

And the problem was???????

The pilots decided it was worth the loss of income to show management what they felt their worth was. Management felt it was worth shutting down the airline rather than pay the pilots their initial demands. In the end, Comair is flying, expanding, and profitable. Isn't that best for all involved?

Yes, other employees were hurt. Life isn't perfect. If you can show me a better way though, you're a much better man than I am.

Balance.

HAL



One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
User currently offlineInnocuousFox From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2805 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1927 times:

"They have to be signed by management too. The blame for the past 10 years is equally shared."

Because if they are NOT signed by management, your employees go on strike and you are screwed. Yeah... that's balanced. Brilliant.

Unions started out for a good reason, now they are not as necessary. If you believe in your own abilities, go it alone... you will be wanted and compensated accordingly.



Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
User currently offlineAmwest25 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1920 times:

Unions are needed in the airline industry if there were no unions you would see airlines paying poverty wages like some did in the 90's before unions came in house. I started at America West at 6.94 and after 2 years I had not received a raise, there was not pay scale, there was virtually nothing in writing until we brought the union in, starting pay went to 7.50/hr and we finally had vacation, benefits, wages etc in writing, I could go and see what I would make from year to year and I knew exactly when and how much my raise would be. Would companies do this voluntarily, of course not and unions do sereve a purpose, companies will not voluntarily pay decent wages without unions, remember a group of 5,000 employees have more power then a single employee will ever have.

User currently offlineXFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 4194 posts, RR: 37
Reply 7, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1897 times:

This thread is disgusting. Unions are there to protect from management and get fair treatment for the employees. Thats fine and dandy if the dispatchers didnt unioize, thats their call...but it is extremely uninformed to make a statement like "unions are the cause of all the trouble in teh airlines for the past 10 years." That shows extreme lack of information on the subject.

What about Comair? Every large jet regional should have a contract like that. It is hideous how management would love to be treating the pilot, FA and other groups. I make about half what one of their FO's make... if I didn't mooch of my parents like I do, I'd be very very hard off. For spending over 40K on ratings and already 3 years of experience of instruction and a captain at a charter outfit....id say that 17K a year is a bit low.

Management typically has very little common sense and insight about the life of their flight crews and the operational validity of some of the things they try to impose upon us. Dang bean counters.... It is this way at most airlines. We fly on time and safe... I've personally beat the fuel flow by 200-500 pounds of burn below predicted on every flight this month. That is saving them alot of money over the long run.
Management typically has no common sense....make poor decisions and lose money. They blame it on the pilots and ask them for concessions.

I'm off my soap box. I posted a thread a while ago analyzing how much a flight crew costs per flight. Check it out.



Chicks dig winglets.
User currently offlineNKP S2 From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1714 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 1826 times:

Almost forgot, analysts don't know anything

Nice strawman. Wouldn't say they don't know but they sure don't know everything either. The old adage: If you can't do...you teach...if you can't teach...you manage....If you can't manage.... The next stop must be consulting and the like.


[Edited 2004-04-08 08:26:09]

User currently offlineScootertrash From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 569 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 1825 times:

InnocuousFox:

Unions started out for a good reason, now they are not as necessary. If you believe in your own abilities, go it alone... You will be wanted and compensated accordingly.


This comment is naive at best. Leaving aside the quality of life issues for a moment, airline pilot unions (ALPA and APA both) are at the forefront of improving aviation safety. They always have been. It was ALPA that first fought for navigation lights and seatbelts in the earliest airliners. That work continues today in refining piloting training techniques, evaluating new equipment and being an advocate for having airlines "Schedule With Safety" (ALPA motto). Most of the safety advances that make your trip so comfortable and safe were at some point fought for by union pilots. So... You're welcome.

If we as pilots were to just "go it alone" as you suggest, there would be no way to voice our collective safety concerns. You indeed benefit from the existence of organizations like ALPA and APA!

As far as quality of life issues go, unions have a responsibility (as well as a vested interest) in securing as good a wage and benefit package as possible for it's membership. I personally believe that the power of the unions has not always been put to it's most constructive use. By and large, however, unions have improved the lives of their memberships which allows workers to contribute more to their respective companies. The existence of a strong union and corporate success are not mutually exclusive.

Scooter


User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 1818 times:

>>>..but it is extremely uninformed to make a statement like "unions are the cause of all the trouble in the airlines for the past 10 years." That shows extreme lack of information on the subject.

...not to mention showing how inaccurate generalizations can be.  Big grin


User currently offlineHAL From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2560 posts, RR: 53
Reply 11, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1750 times:

BoeingGoingGone, InnocuousFox, et al,

I don't want you to step out of this discussion or shut up, because like I said in my first post, balance is a good thing.

In other industries, if you have a college education, advanced degrees, and a good background in your field you can put yourself out to a number of companies and hopefully find your niche. At that experience level you may find yourself supervising a number of people from day one, and a nice paycheck for compensation. As you gain experience you may look for other companies to work for, and start even farther up their corporate ladder.

As an airline pilot, I have a bachelors degree, years of advanced training, paid nearly $50k and several years in up-front training cost just to get in the door, and then I started out making $19/hr (for about 75 hours a month) at my first co-pilot job flying a Saab 340. I was jointly responsible for the lives of up to 33 people several times a day, and I was happy to do it. I learned more about airline operations, sharpened my skills, and became a better pilot. However when I moved to a different airline, despite my experience, I started at the bottom again just like every other pilot. That is the nature of the industry. Now flying 767's I'm responsible for the lives of up to 250 people at a time. That responsibility is a big one, and I am compensated accordingly.

Now, see it from the company's perspective. We are an expense, and just like any other expense, they need to minimize it. If we didn't have the protection of the unions the company would see fit to get rid of us when we became too expensive for them. There are other lower paid but (to the airline) just as qualified pilots farther down the seniority list that can do the same job. If the airline cast off the senior pilots, those pilots would have to start all over again at the bottom at some other airline. You can't carry your seniority over to a new airline, even though you may have the experience and ability of a senior pilot.

And our careers are limited. Once we spend the time and money to become airline pilots we have on average less than 30 years before we are required to retire at age 60. The airlines don't care though; we are just a cog in the wheel. Which is why we banded together to make sure we can speak with one voice and help control our destiny. We absolutely DON'T want to run the airline out of business. If we do, we are back to square one. We pay large amounts of money in monthly dues so the union can hire professionals that analyze the airline, its financial status, and can tell us very accurately what is realistic as far as what the airline can and should be able to pay us for our services. We don't ask for the moon, and we do expect the company to try to withhold every possible cent from what they pay us.

Airline executives do NOT say: "Oh man, our pilots make the smoothest landings in the industry. I think we'll give them a big fat paycheck this month because they are so talented and doing so well."

Airline executives DO say: "Fellow shareholders, I am happy to report that our airline made a profit the last two quarters, and the dividends will be paid out as expected."

So no matter how good you do your job as a pilot (or almost any other union covered position), they will not reward you based on a sliding scale of your abilities. We say "we will do A, B, and C for you, if you pay us $X." Having the ability of everyone that does that job at a company speak in one voice allows that exchange with management to happen.

HAL

[Edited 2004-04-08 11:29:03]


One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1701 times:

HAL,

I don't think you're going to have much luck getting him to consider alternative viewpoints. It just dawned upon me that I've exchanged messages with this fellow before, namely, from a thread he started on single-pilot airliners just a few days after he joined A.net in Sept. 2003:

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1185495/4/

It's not a short thread at 65 messages, but it's worth a read. Check out his responses to a number of well-known and well-respected A.net posters.

Some nuggets:

"I exited Riddle after 7 years and found myself right seat in an EMB-120 for COEX. I found flying to be the work of a simpleton. Boring and unrewarding."

"I dismiss [pilot opinion] it because at Honeywell every pilot that came through the door dismissed it and we showed them otherwise. I have little respect for pilots in general. You are correct. A majority of pilots I have encountered in life feel that they are the end all know all to aviation."

His tone to me changed markedly in message 60 or so, when he realized that I was a dispatcher, and not a pilot.

Put simply, I respect his right to have his own opinions, as I think that all A.netters do, but I think he's more than aptly demonstrated that they're not necessarily well-informed opinions. Nor do rash generalizations and inferences that "all unions are bad" [not his quote] ring true. Whatever the Mesa dispatchers decided was based upon what they felt their own needs/wants were, and it wasn't a national referendum on labor unions.

Save your time HAL....  Big grin





User currently offlineBoingGoingGone From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1693 times:

Unions are old and antiquated. You mean to tell me that the brightest peaches in the bunch need a Union to help them get a raise negotiated in today's age? My commentary was on Unions, not the employee's. The union's are a joke.

As an airline pilot, I have a bachelors degree, years of advanced training, paid nearly $50k and several years in up-front training cost just to get in the door, and then I started out making $19/hr (for about 75 hours a month) at my first co-pilot job flying a Saab 340. I was jointly responsible for the lives of up to 33 people several times a day, and I was happy to do it. I learned more about airline operations, sharpened my skills, and became a better pilot. However when I moved to a different airline, despite my experience, I started at the bottom again just like every other pilot. That is the nature of the industry. Now flying 767's I'm responsible for the lives of up to 250 people at a time. That responsibility is a big one, and I am compensated accordingly.

Is this the only argument pilots have to stand on? Do you think you're the only ones educated? The only one's that take risk? The only one's that spend $50K or more on their education?


[Edited 2004-04-08 16:56:25]

User currently offlineGoingboeing From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4875 posts, RR: 16
Reply 14, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1674 times:

Remember, the unions don't write their own contracts and impose them on the company. They have to be signed by management too. The blame for the past 10 years is equally shared.

You know though, this point is usually not mentioned as being one of the "poor management decisions" when labor groups are pointing out the sorry state of their airlines.


User currently offlineSsides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Reply 15, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1633 times:

I wouldn't go as far as to say that unions are the sole source of all the industry's problems in recent years -- WN is the one of the country's most unionized airlines, and it's done pretty well. However, it's impossible to deny that unions have greatly distored the airlines' financial situations. They are primarily responsible for the huge disparities in pilot pay, because they pushed the model under which pilots are paid based on the size of plane -- a model that is at odds with simple economics. They have also played a role in low customer service levels, because they seek to protect employees no matter what, even if they have been treating customers like dirt.

In my view, the way to balance the issue (although it will never happen) is to repeal the Railway Labor Act, which governs labor relations in the airline industry. The airline industry is unique in the sense that it is both very labor-intensive and capital-intensive. This economic factor, combined with unions' enhaced power under the RLA, essentially gives unions a complete veto over airline decisions. Even a week-long strike at one of the major carriers could easily bankrupt the airline.

Of course, this is not the only solution to a complex problem. The RLA does have some balancing factors, such as presidential intervention to prevent strikes. And unions aren't going to strike just for the hell of it. Still, this would be a first step. In a rapidly changing economy, airlines (and all companies, for that matter), need to have the flexibility to make quick changes to their business models, costs, and general practices. For the most part, unions stand in the way of this flexibility.



"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1589 times:

Many thanks to those respondents out there who have done an excellent job trying to find the balance in this topic. Unions exist in all sectors of the work force, and while they do serve a useful purpose, they are publically demonized when the going gets tough.

As a unionized employee in the public education sector, I hear my profession bad-mouthed constantly. If I really cared about children, I'd volunteer to work harder and longer or take more students. And if I was really understanding, I'd just accept that I really didn't deserve a raise - new consultants are needed at the state level, and higher level management is much more important than funding No Child Left Behind.

At one end of the spectrum would be Frank Lorenzo and Carl Icahn. These men destroyed airlines to benefit one person - themselves. They made the Enron people look like minor characters as far as I'm concerned. At the other end of the spectrum are unions such as the European government employee model, where once you join, you are NEVER subject to review, NEVER in danger of losing your job, and go on strike during the strike season. As I remember, there was a thread here recently about a certain consortium airline in northern Europe...

Okay, what's the point of my babbling here? My two cents worth on the fact that BALANCE between a management trying to create a successful product and the actual workers who make it happen. When one side sees the other as the enemy and not as a partner, the company cannot succeed.



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineScootertrash From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 569 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1536 times:

It has been mentioned before, but in the spirit of PanAm747's appeal for balance in this debate, I think it is worth restating what Sside's mentioned above: Southwest is one of the most heavily unionized airlines in the industry, yet it is arguably the most successful. That fact alone shoots down the argument that unions are the proximate cause of an airlines failure to thrive.

Forward thinking and innovative management coupled with enlightened union leadership can make an airline succeed. Also recall what I said above: You are safer flying today because union pilots (and mechanics, dispatchers and FA's) fought for those safety improvements yesterday.

Scooter


User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1505 times:

"The pilots decided it was worth the loss of income to show management what they felt their worth was. Management felt it was worth shutting down the airline rather than pay the pilots their initial demands. In the end, Comair is flying, expanding, and profitable. Isn't that best for all involved?"

Well Hal, try 1 out of 3....

DL just gave new flying to everyone BUT Comair. Their current contract has left the company in a position where they can't compete with ASA, Chatauqua, etc... They didn't bother to even bid for this last round of growth, because they knew it wasn't feasible. So they are not growing.

One can assume Comair is profitable. But as a subsidiary of DL, they don't report their results. I think it's 50/50 if Comair is profitable because of their pilot and FA labor costs.

So that leaves flying. I can confirm seeing their airplanes take off.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Is that really the best for all involved?


User currently offlineN901frwolf From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1466 times:

With all due respect to the pro union guys, i disagree. The unions are like affirmative action - they were very VERY neccessary and needed in the beginning. However, they have become very corrupt and bloated IMHO, and need to be cut down a few good notches. Ever wonder why our jobs are going overseas? Labor costs in America have skyrocketed. Do I blame the unions? In a good part, yes, but not totally.

However, I can tell you the story that was the straw that broke the camel's back for me with unions:

My boyfriend worked at the High Speed Test Track at Holloman AFB in Alamogordo, New Mexico. He worked there a few years, non union, and then got promoted because he did an excellent job.

The unions threw a fit. They pressured the HSTT to demote him back to his former job to put one of thier union guys in there, and they did.

That to me speaks volumes of how the unions need to be taken down a few million pegs.

[Edited 2004-04-08 21:04:07]


Frontier - A Whole Different Animal (Beach ball - check, Suntan lotion - Check, thong - check)
User currently offlineHAL From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2560 posts, RR: 53
Reply 20, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1414 times:

N901frwolf,

As unfortunate as that story about your boyfriend is, that is just one extreme example. The question is, did HSTT already have an agreement with the union about how and who to promote? And did they go around this agreement by promoting your boyfriend? If so, then HSTT was guilty of fraud and your boyfriend was just caught in the middle. If not, then HSTT is guilty of poor employee relations and bad decision making.

To everyone else, I don't expect to change a lot of minds. Many people are brought up in 'company' households where the company can do no wrong. And others are raised in 'union' households where management is a bloated, evil entity that is to be fought at every turn. Those impressions are instilled early and are difficult to fight. The reality lies somewhere in the middle; Management isn't out to 'get' the employees, but their first duty is to the shareholders. The employees aren't out to destroy the company, but their first duty is to themselves and their families. Unions (properly run) are a way to achieve the balance needed to make sure everyone involved gets what the need and want. Like I've said before, believing that the company has only the best interest of the employee at heart is just as wrong as believing that once in a union you can do whatever you want without fear of getting fired.

HAL



One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
User currently offlineNwairlinkfo From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 54 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1334 times:

I have to say that I did not read ALL of the post on this topic, but it really angers me that someone would say that unions are not needed in this industry. If you spend any time working for an airline....whether it be a gate agent....to ramp worker....to pilot, you will realize that management has no interest in you other than profit. They will manipulate you, back stab you, outsource your labor, anything they need to do, to reduce cost. I know this is a business, but from personal experience I can say that for pilots, it is a skilled and highly specific job. It requires years of hard work and diligence to achieve the requirements to obtain a job with even the smallest of passenger airlines. To suggest that these individuals are not worthy of the applicable pay of say....doctors/lawyers, then maybe you should consult the NTSB accident database. Pilots are one of the last defenses against what has occurred in these databases....let alone the dangers of today's terrorist environment. Being a pilot is a passion at heart for sure, but to say that they/we don't deserve just pay is a travesty. I'm quite sure that my passengers wouldn't like to hear that I made 19,000 dollars last year to fly them through thunderstorms/icing/moderate to severe turbulence/approaches down to minimums/crosswinds in excess of 30 knots, all to get them safely to their destination. That is where our union has failed us. ALPA needs to inform the public of what we really do AND what we get paid....publicity on television...then maybe some of you will realize what a valuable service we provide for your mom and dad...Etc... And I also know what gate agents go through, because I did this also....they have just as many, if not more reasons to have a union fighting for them....it's really amazing that passengers have absolutely no idea what airline employees do on a regular basis for them. Unions are here to stay because management will stop at nothing to get rid of acceptable compensation. Good day to you!!  Smile

User currently offlineJustplanesmart From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 721 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1277 times:

I will begin my thoughts on this topic by stating that I have never been a union member, so I have no personal experiences to base my opinion on. I will acknowledge that unions have a place, and at one time they were very necessary. However, as I see it now, too many unions have become what they fight against - big businesses.


"So many planes; so little time..."
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