Wilax From United States of America, joined Jun 2002, 465 posts, RR: 3 Posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 4428 times:
It seems that these 757-231's have been popping up in the desert. Is AA getting rid of all of them or just some? Are they for sale or just being stored until better times? Who else is giving up their 757's. Seeing how the 757 line is closing these unwanted planes could fetch quite a bounty. Are there any 753's for sale or going unused somewhere?
DeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 4385 times:
IIRC, AA is dumping the ex TW 757's as they don't fit into their configs, and their lease rates aren't so hot....this was through the grapevine though. Very sad to see such nice a/c sitting in the desert. In the end, all AA got a/c wise from the buyout was a bumcha MD-80's....they got rid of the DC-9, B717, B757, B767-200, B767-300....pretty damn sad eh?
Are all of them headed out there? Any buyers? At least they're with their 767 brothers at VCV...
Futureatp From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 212 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 4312 times:
Well, I generaly see two a day in PHX. You can tell because the original AA fleet has RR engines. Ex TWA's have Pratt&Witneys. They must schedule them to certain routes. I heard that AA is only operating 6 Ex twa 75s. Right around 4pm or so in PHX their is 3 AA 757s on the ground. 2 usually are Ex twa. The timing is pretty close, one usually has just pushed back while the other arrives. AA has 3 gates (maybe one more that is rarely used on the west side of the concourse) in PHX. But I think they can only handle 2 757s at a time.
Thunder9 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 216 posts, RR: 7 Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 4191 times:
>> I just know that the TWA 757s are much better than AA 757s
What makes you say this? From a passenger service/comfort standpoint, the former TWA planes are JUNK. I'm not saying this to knock any former TW folks, but it's a fact that the interiors are bad.
A couple of examples...Overhead bins are smaller than the bins on AA metal. No closets on MD-80's, and 757's have one very small closet, so no room for hanging items or that odd-shaped carry on. The original TW seats are bad, as in no adjustable headrest, and not as comfortable. Also, the color scheme is old & bland looking, with beige wall panels and the dull seat colors. Granted, those last two points are more a personal opinion, but the previous points are a fact.
The crappy interior layout makes even more work for those of us at the gates. When we get a former TW MD-80 booked over ninety (90) passengers, we have to solicit pax to gate check their roll aboard bags, as many of them don't fit in the overhead bins. This beats having to check ten or more at departure time at the a/c door.
It's going to be a while longer, but I cannot wait until the former TW MD-80's are all reconfigured! Also, the former TW 757's are being returned to the lessors as those leases expire due to unfavorable lease terms, combined with the cost of reconfiguring the interiors.
"Keep thy airspeed up, less the earth come from below and smite thee." - William Kershner
Dutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 58 Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 4118 times:
From the beginning of the AA/TWA fiasco take-over, the TWA 757s days were numbered due to the difference in engines: AA being a RR customer and TW being a PW customer. There was even a rumor at one time that if the UA/US deal went though, AA and UA would swap 757s, AA talking the US 757s which are RR powered and UA taking the TW 757s with are PW powered (UA 757s also have PW engines). It will be interesting to see who picks up the ex-TWA 757s - most of which are quite new - I am sure that the lessors will offer a great deal on these aircraft - it is an opportunity - maybe Spirit should have picked up these aircraft instead of ordering the A32X? There was a rumor that America West was looking to replace/add to its 757 fleet, but again the engine issue, HP's 757s are RR powered.
As for the balance of the TW fleet, AA really did not keep much, as pointed out above. Much has to do with AA using regional jets on many routes, the cutbacks at STL reduced the need for aircraft, etc, etc. We all know about the 717, AA had no interest in TWA's very old high-hour 762s, AA also had no interest in TW's hodge-podge fleet of 2nd had 763s and ordered new 763s to replace those aircraft, and now the TW 757s will leave the fleet.
Someone above asked about 753s for sale - rumor has it that Condor would be very happy to unload its entire fleet of 13 753s if a buyer could be found.
American 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3332 posts, RR: 14 Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 4054 times:
There are two ways you can tell an American 757 comes from TWA:
1. Pratt & Whitney engines, as opposed to Rolls & Royce engines, the PW engines have a nozzle coming out of the nacelles, the RR engines don't.
2. Ex-TWA 757's don't have any overwing exits and have emergency exits just after the trailing edge of the wing, AA757's have two overwing exits on each side but no emergency exit behind the wing except of course at the rear of the pax cabin.
And third way you can tell but I'm not positive about that one, it's if the registration still ends with TW.
If your AA flight number has four digits and starts with either 28 or 29 then you know your 757 is an ex-TWA aircraft.
And yes, American is progressively phasing out them as they are being returned to their lessors, they'll be gone in 2008. I was lucky enough to fly on one last year from DFW to LGA, I normally had to fly on a Super 80 but my flight was canceled and they(American) rebooked me on another flight, it was an ex-TWA 757. I liked it.
"Aimer jusqu'a l'impossible, c'est possible". Tina Arena.
EAL757 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 3872 times:
Since I've got family flying for FedEx, I have to be objective in all this...actually I just want to throw a thought out and see if anyone bites at it.
Seems like Airbus is selling the A320 line like hotcakes and Boeing certainly can't complain about 737 sales at the moment, but an airplane like the 75 has been one of the safest, most efficient planes of it's time. I don't understand why the TWA 75's aren't being snatched up, or how about Condor? Somebody mentioned that perhaps Condor was willing to sell off their 753 fleet? I actually wondered for a while why FedEx never bought new planes. Granted, they aren't put through the same kind of stress as a pax carrier, thereby allowing FedEx to own older planes and maintain them well, but it seems like the idea of a low-cost carrier or having the goal of being low-cost gets pretty hard when you're dropping 10's of millions on each new aircraft. What would the TW 75's sell for? ...15-18 million maybe? ...is that a bad estimate?! Maybe less? Those things will fly for a long time - they've got great avionics and I'd rather get a 75 that's used at a great deal than have to spend tons of money on a brand new plane which may not even perform better.
All that to say: what are these airlines out there thinking? They've got no concept of low-cost! ...even Blue? B6 is making tons of money but pretty soon they're gonna start paying for all this new stuff they own. Their debt has to be enormous right?
Geez, airlines flew the 72's into the ground...seems these days the 75's and 76's are considered to be old even at 10 years old. That's hogwash to me!
Dutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 58 Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 3834 times:
I agree with you EAL757 - there are some great deals to be made out there concerning used 757s which type is suddenly out of style - after years of being one of the most cost-effecient and versatile aircraft, all of a sudden, no one was interested in the 757! A lot has to do with seating capacity, smaller planes are in style since airlines are obsessed with frequency to make their hub systems work and too many seats bring down yeilds - I guess that is why 738s and A320s are taking the market at the moment. Most segments operated with the 757 can now be done with a 737NG.
The ex-TWA 757 fleet can probably be had at bargain rates - and with only five or so years of flying time, they are almost as good as new. As I mentioned above, wouldn't Spirit have been better off with the ex-TWA 757 fleet instead of brand new Airbus planes (nothing against Airbus, I am just talking money here) - the 757s could do anything that the A32X can do, plus add a few more seats (which Spirit could sell at their low fares) and provide additional range. DL, UA and NW fly PW-powered 757s, while DL and UA are not in the position at the moment to buy additional aircraft, maybe NW would be interested? Unlikely, but it all depends on price.
I think that the TW 757s are ETOPS aircraft (didnt they fly them to Europe and Hawaii?)........maybe a future transatantic LCC would be interested. I could also see an airline like Hawaiian use the 757s for routes from Honolulu to smaller west coast cities or from Kona/Kauai/Maui to west coast cities, but Hawaiian has its own financial problems at the moment. The timing is simply all wrong for the 757 (which of course explains why its going out of production) and finding new homes for the ex-TW birds is going to be difficult.
Ckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 4682 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week ago) and read 3619 times:
The rumor about AA and UA swapping 757s was true. UA flies PW-powered 757s, while US flies RR-powered 757s. If the UA/US merger had gone through, UA would have gotten the TW 757s, and AA would have gotten the US 757s. In addition, AA was going to lease some Fokkers to DC Air.
The reason that AA has isolated the TW 757s has to do with the FAA. Until AA bought TWA, it had 1 group of pilots flying 5 aircraft types: 757-200, 757-200ER (used for Hawaii and some trans-Atlantic), 767-200, 767-200ER, and 767-300ER. In addition, every switch in a TW 757 throws the opposite of an AA 757. In other words, if "on" is up and "off" is down on a TW 757, it's the exact opposite on an AA 757.
The FAA wouldn't allow AA pilots to become rated on a 6th aircraft type, the TW 757. AA had two choices, isolate the TW 757s, or split the pilots into 757 only and 767 only groups. The second choice meant increasing the number of reserve pilots, so that was not an option, financially.
The reason that AA got rid of TWA's 767s was that they were PW powered, while AA's 767s have GE engines. Since TW had so few 767s, it was cheaper to replace them. Then, the former TWA pilots could train on the TW 757 and AA's 767s.
EAL757 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 23, posted (9 years 2 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3243 times:
hey, the comment was made previously that AA mechanics didn't want to work on the Pratt & Whitney engines...I have no insight on this one - could somebody give me the scoop on why that's the case? I'm so interested!
Ckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 4682 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (9 years 2 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3192 times:
I don't think the RB 211 was ever an option on the 767, or at least it wasn't when AA got its first eight 767-200s.
I think ex-TW pilots still fly the 757s. A friend of mine flies 757/767, and he has yet to get a training manual for flying PW-powered 757s. The whole seniority issue was a mess, because TW pilots were at the bottom of the list, but there was a fence for the STL crew base. My guess is that until the TW 757s are all retired, there will still be ex-TW pilots flying them.
As for DL buying the TW 757s, I'm not sure DL could do that. I think DL's 757s are PW powered, and they are at 5 aircraft types for the 757/767 pilots, 757-200, 767-200, 767-300, 767-300ER, and 767-400.
25 Syncmaster: I know this is off topic...a little.... But I saw N708TW in FunJet colors last week at LAS, so that's one that is gone. Looked in the database and it
26 FlagshipAZ: Slightly off topic here, but TWA fleet of 27 757-200s consisted of 17 -231s and 10 -2Q8s, which is ILFC's customer code. ILFC owns all 10 of those -2Q
27 AirxLiban: why does AA have rolling 757s but GE 767s? wouldn't things be easier if they both had RB 211s? To answer my own question: RB211 is the weakest, heavie
28 DeltaGuy: Ckfred, That was the point I was trying to make...TWA's are PW powered, and so are DL's....so it wouldn't constitute a different group. And actually,
29 BoeingBrat: When TWA ordered their 757s it was to cross utilize their 767 Captains and First officers. With an interchangeable cockpit, it kept expense lower with
30 Aa717driver: There are no 757's still on the TWA operating certificate. The last 757's not configured to AA standards(cockpit only) went to the desert in November
31 DeltaGuy: Aa717driver, Thanks for the gouge, sorry ya'll got so royally f*d by AA Was one of your classmates a Lin Smith? (ex USAF, my roomate's father)....was
32 EAL757: let's talk about that point for a second--in hindsight, has there been any benefit whatsoever to AA buying TWA? It doesn't seem like AA has benefited
33 DeltaGuy: Jeff, I totally agree with you....they ended up parking a bunch of aircraft, decimating a bunch of hubs and routes, and layign off a ton of pilots, F/
34 B747-437B: TWA's leases were for five years, IIRC You don't remember correctly then. TWA's leases were such a mixed bag of lessors, terms and rates that I've act
35 GARUDAROD: I see the exTWA B757s in FLL just about every day. As mentioned above the have the P&W engines, but still have the reggos that end in TW as well. Im
36 Thrust: Yeah, the different PW engines probably are the biggest factor for AA dumping the ex-TWA 757s. If they were Rolls Royce powered, I doubt a big differe
37 DeltaGuy: If you ever run into a guy named Bob Pastore, ask him about how he sold his union members down the river and how much he made on the deal as his "exec
38 B747-437B: Tell me more please...should be interesting Does it have to do as to why ALPA took a hike in the buyout? Nothing I'm willing to discuss in detail on a
39 Jetjack74: I think we established the fact that ex-TWA 757's are PW powered. Anyway, once the traffiic returns, i'm certain that they'll find homes somewhere. Wi
40 Isitsafenow: I need an answer to this please....... HP 757's are RR powered TW were Pratts What are/were Iberia's 757 powered with? I just got off the phone to a g
41 Thrust: I recently saw that Fun Vacations (I think that's the name of the airline) is operating several ex-TWA 757s, one of them being N708TW. I expected this
42 146CREW: N708TW is currently leased to and operated by TransMeridian Airlines. It is operated on behalf of US Tour operator FunJet Vacations. The aircraft is b
43 Lgbguy: Here's a couple shots of N708TW taken at LAS earlier this year. Enjoy. Mike lgbguy
44 AV757: The TW B757-231 are PW 2037 37000lbs of thrust The AA B757-223 are RR RB211-535E4-B 40000LBS of thrust. And believe me the PW2037 or RR RB211535C whic