Qantasflyer From Australia, joined Mar 2004, 396 posts, RR: 2 Posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2845 times:
Qantas' new low cost carrier begins operations in May, do you think that Jetstar will eventually cannibalize Qantas. Will the quality of product and service detiriate and will prices rise on mainline QF or do you think that Qantas will be able to focus on trunk routes and improve product and service. Also will you presonally fly Jetstar on routes which are jointly served with QF or would you shed out that bit extra to fly QF?
Qantasflyer That's the spirit. The Spirit of Australia!
QantasffCL From Australia, joined Apr 2004, 86 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2823 times:
Jetstar will steal market share from Qantas but it will make its financial stituation better. Jetstar is (within the first 2yrs) being given all of the un-profitable Qantas routes. The 'hourly' SYD-MEL, SYD-BNE which are usually operated by A330's (for the moment anyway) and 767's will be gradually changed to 737's as Jetstar eats into Qantas' market share to an approximate 35%.
Qantas' service shouldn't meagerly deteriorate if anything. In the past three years they have updated economy (domestic) meals thrice and retrained all staff that come in contact with passengers. Whatever happens Qantas probably won't loose out on hourly SYD-MEL, SYD-BNE, BNE-MEL as they can easily transit from 763's to 738's. Its logical.
I would definitely spend extra to fly Qantas, as those flights add up to lifetime status. I mean look at my other post (link below) and you will see more of my reasons. http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1509471/
Alitalia7e7 From Australia, joined Mar 2004, 185 posts, RR: 4 Reply 3, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2747 times:
I really think that the trunk routes SYD-MEL and MEL-BNE will not affect QF dramatically nor change the aircraft type. dont forget that flights to BNE and SYD via MEL will be operated via Avalon Airport (This will create a new and different leisure market).
The business traveller will still want easy seamless travel to Tullamarine. Dont forget that QF from Tullamarine has great connections via Tullamarine internationally.
ClassicLover From Ireland, joined Mar 2004, 4578 posts, RR: 24 Reply 7, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2549 times:
Well, the purpose of Jetstar is to combat competition from Virgin Blue (DJ).
They have a market share at present of around 30% domestically, and Qantas have 70%.
I believe Qantas will be happy for Jetstar to have whatever market that it happens to capture, as long as Virgin Blue doesn't go above 30-35%.
You have to remember that a lot of Australians are used to full service, and will continue to expect that, not to mention the legions of Qantas frequent flyers. Additionally, Qantas has major brand loyalty both within Australia and around the world.
The other thing that will keep Qantas with full fare domestic is the international passengers. You'd hardly want to arrive in Sydney from London and then have to transfer to Jetstar for your connection to Adelaide - especially if you're a high yield first or business class passenger.
So to answer the main question - Jetstar may take some Qantas market share, but I don't believe it'll be anything like what some people say on here, expecting Australia to lose its only full service domestic carrier!
I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
Lauda777 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 165 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2488 times:
I think that trends are leaning towards lcc's and if those trends keep leaning then I don't see why Jetstar won't eventually (im talking 10-15 years) take over the whole QF domestic operation.
What will happen is JQ will eat up more and more domestic traffic together with DJ until Qantas realises it's making even less money on domestic than now. So as a lot of you have said why bother keeping a full service domestic carrier going when everybody is flying Jetstar and the money goes into the same accounts anyway.
In an ideal situation I would like to turn the clock back and wish we were still living in an Ansett v Qantas and Virgin Blue v Impulse environment, because that would ensure excellent competition on both the LCC and full service ends of the market having at least 2 rival carriers.
Now we are stuck with just 2 one full service and one LCC which is not good for competition.
We remind passengers all flights are non smoking, if you are caught smoking you will be asked to sit outside on the wing
MaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 16483 posts, RR: 48 Reply 14, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2434 times:
"Australia is not the United States of America or Canada, and the situations are different...
Mmm hmm and Tango was different, and Ted was different, and Song was different, and Metrojet was different, and Continental Lite was different, and United Shuttle was different, and Delta Express was different and....
Airbear From Australia, joined May 2001, 642 posts, RR: 2 Reply 15, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2385 times:
I may be wrong, but I believe that mainline QF Domestic will be gone within 2 years (5 at the outside), totally replaced by JQ.
I believe this has always been QF's intention, so from the Board's viewpoint, the faster JQ can cannibalise QF, the better! Gets rid of old and expensive industrial awards/costs & conditions, and the costly Freq.Flyer program, whereby a large percentage of the Australian population, are nominally FF's. This way, QF winds up with a relatively small core of REAL Frequent Flyers (i.e., those who fly a lot internationally ).
Like a lot of other large airlines, QF Management is concentrating on providing bottom-line value for SHAREHOLDERS, not on what the market may or may not want. I don't believe they really care if someone has to cram themselves into a 30" pitch cabin after travelling for 14, 20 or 30 hours. In any case, with the smaller Airbuses (332/3's) as opposed to B744's or A380's, they will be able to limit the need for domestic connections by scheduling more non-stop flights between say, SIN or BKK or even LAX (?) and ADL, CBR, BNE, PER etc
Aussie747 From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 1162 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2317 times:
The problem is a lot of these LCC's have gone head to head with their mainline carriers.
JQ initially is flying to leisure destinations that QF will not fly to eg MCY,HTI,PPP etc. Where QF and JQ fly together initially eg out of HBA and LST they are not flying at the same times whilst the golden triangle flights SYD/MEL/BNE you will see QF is using Avalon instead of Tullamarine, with QF trying to use different airports in SYD and BNE but not having much success.
It must be said yield is already at 80% on most flights into and out of Avalon
in it's first month of operation already - forcing QF to hastilly expand operations more quickly.
As soon as JQ competes with QF on more routes expect canibilisation to occur and that is natural even Geoff Dixon had acknowledged that (so long as it didn't come from Qantas he argues).
MaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 16483 posts, RR: 48 Reply 18, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2230 times:
"QF domestic will become only for "FULL FARE" traffic, Why, because that traffic wont fly Jetstar anyway."
How on earth are you going to fill up A330s with "full fare" traffic while jetstar takes all the discount traffic. If there was that much full fare traffic, that would preclude the need for a discount carrier, doncha think?
Airbear From Australia, joined May 2001, 642 posts, RR: 2 Reply 19, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2183 times:
"JQ initially is flying to leisure destinations that QF will not fly to eg MCY,HTI,PPP " ... well, has anyone read this morning's edition of the Aust. Financial Review?
The gist of an article entitled "Qantas Takes First Class Flak Over Jetstar", is that QF is getting complaints from - wait for it - CORPORATE travel agencies, because surprise, surprise, their corporate clients still want to go to places like the Gold Coast, Hamiltoin Is., Sunshine Coast, either on their holidays or even more importantly for Qantas, for conferences - sometimes involving arrangements for hundreds of people. And guess what? These folks don't want to go to these places by Jetstar together with the hoi-polloi.
It went on... after JQ begins, for instance, it will not be possible to go mainline QF from MEL to OOL (Gold Coast). It will be all JQ. The Corp.Agents are saying that these holidays and conferences will be simply transferred to overseas destinations (can't you just hear the screams of the Domestic Tourism Lobby? Sounds like time for another general levy on tickets to support tourism). They (the Agents) were also complaining that QF has already transferred pax booked on such flights, without notice, from QF to JQ. So, many of their clients had cancelled, and gone (shock, horror ... this wasn't supposed to happen, Geoff...) to Virgin.
Anyway, they're NOT HAPPY, JAN! It will be an interesting tightrope walk that QF will be making over the coming months. It looks like QF are starting to piss-off the people who fly twice a week , to capture more of the business of those who fly once a year!
Pitrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 2872 posts, RR: 4 Reply 20, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2140 times:
I hope Jetstar works, but there is one thing that really bugs me. Why didn't Qantas just expand Australian Airlines to do the flying Jetstar will do? Jetstar is a very bland and unimaginative name and image. Australian on the other hand has an awesome livery and image. Plus, running two airlines instead of three is more cost effective because of lower overhead.
Can someone tell me exactly where Avalon is in relationship to Melbourne? is that the name of a town or airport? What is at Avalon now? Thanks.
QF744 From Australia, joined Feb 2004, 413 posts, RR: 1 Reply 21, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2109 times:
I may be wrong, but I believe that mainline QF Domestic will be gone within 2 years (5 at the outside), totally replaced by JQ
unfortunately Airbear, I think you will be wrong. there will always de a demand for domestic business class in Australia and like many people on this site, i would also not fly on any a/c smaller than a 767 to places such as Perth and Cairns!
QF will do as they say with JQ and i believe the whole situation is great for the local travel industry!
Airbear From Australia, joined May 2001, 642 posts, RR: 2 Reply 22, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2092 times:
Hi QF744 ... "and i believe the whole situation is great for the local travel industry!" ... buy a copy of todays' Fin Review! As for my predictions, we'll see what eventually happens, but in view of the situation developing in the corporate ttravel market, I believe more strongly than ever, that this is what QF's intentions are. Whether they can pull it off - or whether the whole thing falls flat on its face (with a bit of luck...) - is another matter!
And, Pitrules.. hi to you. Avalon is an airfield about 1 hours drive (at non-peak traffic hours) west of Melbourne city. Till now, its main functions over the years have been variously, aircraft manufacture , flight training for major carriers, a/c maintainance & modification, shady/secret govt./defence activities and bi-annual airshow venue. Till now, it has had no public transport facilities/capability, but it is now privately owned, and as of next month it becomes an RPT airport. If next month's pax are lucky, it will also get some terminal and ground transport facilities in a hurry.
And if Jetstar seems to you to be a "very bland and unimaginative name and image", that is because Qantas is a very bland and unimaginative airline (with admittedly occasionally good to very good service and attitude), but you could never accuse them at a corporate level, of being innovative.