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SW Vs US..Are You Angry Or....  
User currently offlineOmShanti From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 65 posts, RR: 0
Posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3574 times:

Hello all
Reading the several prev. post regarding USAir and Southwest's sucess in each and every market and the danger it poses to other carrier...I want to know whos side you are on or should there even be sides. I would hate to see USAir go out of business because of Southwest but is that a valid grudge against Southwest, who has changed the idea of travel and passed the savings to travelers, and in some cases made FLYING possible for some.
What are your thoughts on this matter. Is there something SW would be responsible for if USAir goes out of business or is it just plain business??

Best Regards



60 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6422 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3549 times:

WN is just giving US the final nudge. You can't blame this on WN. Just like NW is trying to nudge YX, or the way DL nudged EA out. They're paying for it with FL though. Big grin

IT'S JUST BUSINESS



Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19212 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3536 times:

It's competition. Nowadays only the 'fittest' airlines exist. Who are the 'fittest' I hear you ask - the ones which are well-run. Some will fail and some will suceed. Some will change the course of history and some will be bog-standard and do little. It's business. If you have competitors you take care of them the best you can, for they are a threat to your success.


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineATLhomeCMH From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 770 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3510 times:

USAirways is simply the victim of a general American attitude that saving money is number 1, not the overall experience of the flight. The majority of Americans figure that since the amenities offered by the major domestic carriers have been scaled back in recent years, they might as well get the same service for less money. Good philosophy, in theory, but seldom in practice to my experience.

Basically, you get what you pay for. The famous saying, "There's no such thing as a free lunch," applies here. You may be saving money, but you'll pay for it elsewhere for sure.

Every SW aircraft I've ever been on (several of them) has been shoddy, unkempt, and SW's terminals and gates less than eye-catching. On some routes, you make stops in two seperate cities before your final destination, like you're riding on a charter bus.

Basically, SW is the Greyhound of the skies.

I also don't like the fact that on many SW flights, you have to put up with f/a's who joke around, goof off, sing songs, and just to try to be cute. It's unprofessional.

But Americans will put up with a lack of professionalism for the almighty dollar. I have flown US extensively, and though they may cost more, their planes are almost always fresh and clean looking, their staff professional, and their service impeccable. I would rather pay the extra $150 (and I am NOT a wealthy person) to fly with a proven industry leader, than fly on a dirty, cheap cabaret with wings.

[Edited 2004-04-15 01:48:48]


"The most terrifying words in the Engligh language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"-Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineATLhomeCMH From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 770 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3499 times:

p.s. It's business...SW is marketing something that Americans are willing to purchase.


"The most terrifying words in the Engligh language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"-Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineL.1011 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 2209 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3480 times:

Southwest is just 6 years younger than US silly. USAir: Born 1968 Southwest: Born 1974 (or was it 71 or 72?)

User currently offlineATLhomeCMH From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 770 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3441 times:

That may be, but as I said, I'd rather fly a proven industry leader, not a fly-by-night, chinsy trailor with wings.

Pe@rson is right....a lot of it has to do with the management. If USAir gets new management, I bet ya they'd blow SW out of the water in PHL.



"The most terrifying words in the Engligh language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"-Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineUS AIRWAYS From United States of America, joined May 1999, 432 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3396 times:

I'd have to honestly say that I'm backing US Airways all the way. PHL is my home airport, and I've been flying on them ever since I was 7 years old. I've never had a problem while flying with them.....ever. That may be hard for some people to believe, but it's true. I know at some point I'm going to want to try Southwest just to see what all the hype is about, but I know that if I had to head up to a place like PVD or something, I'd still choose US Airways. The last thing I want to see is US go under. I do believe that if they bring in some new management and some fresh ideas they will succeed and ultimately fend off Southwest.

Jonathan

[Edited 2004-04-15 02:40:19]


Go Eagles!
User currently offlineAATripleseven From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 324 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3397 times:

Why do people blame Southwest? They don't force people to fly them - people choose to because they believe they are getting a better value.

If the other carriers provided something passengers thought was worth paying for, don't you think passengers would fly them and not Southwest?

Sorry guys but the "shoddy aircraft, gates, whatever" comments don't fly. Nobody is being forced to fly WN. They provide a better travel experience at a great price - simple as that.


User currently offlineLono From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1335 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3362 times:

US is responsible for US going out of business.... too slow to react....


Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
User currently offlineVctony From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3333 times:

I don't get all of this anti-WN sentiment. I live in PHX (their second largest operation) and I haven't seen any of this "shoddy aircraft, gates, etc." to be true at all. WN flies out of Terminal 4 in PHX, the NEWEST and NICEST terminal at the airport, US flies out of T2 which is the "shoddiest, oldest" terminal at the airport as a means of comparison. Ever been to STL (the former TWA current AA terminal is dark, dreary, and has a unique "musty" scent where the WN terminal is new, bright, and clean. WN has the NEWEST gates in the old "terminal from hell (LC Smith/JM Davey complex)" at DTW, as well as several of the newest gates at BWI, MDW, ONT, etc. Also I do think that WN has one of the largest outstanding orders for NEW 737s out of any carrier, meaning that every month from now into the forseeable future BRAND NEW aircraft will be constantly entering their fleet. Every WN flight I've been on has some of the most professional pilots and flight attendants ever (I've run into some really bad ones on HP). Although I've never flown US, and I do think that US is a good carrier, WN's product isn't all that much inferior for the average traveler and it IS much cheaper. I'm sorry but I just can't see how the almighty dollar cannot rule, I always book with the lowest fare carrier, it's just common business sense.

User currently offlineLtbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13078 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3307 times:

WN is responding to the demand for reliable, always reasonably priced flights. US is right now in the bullseye of WN, other LLC's as well as other majors or their regional partners. Many of the markets US serves in the northeast USA are places losing population and the business pax that really support legacy/majors like US.
I am not angry with WN, but angry with US's management, their failure to change their routes and marketing, and perhaps 'downsize' a bit to face reality. While I have problems with the possible end of US, the market is speaking, which is the 'American way". I don't think we want to have our tax monies subsidise (any more) inefficient majors or overregulate to overprotect the majors.


User currently offlineGSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3016 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3267 times:

I'm on US's side. I still favor "full-service" or legacy carriers. Besides, US (more accuately US Airways Express) is the major carrier at my home airport with 30-ish flight a day. What would happen if that all went away? We have nonstops to all US hubs plus RDU, LGA, DCA with US.


Finally made it to an airline mecca!
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3235 times:

I believe WN started in 71'

USAirways will be dead in a few months due to a few factors, 9/11, poor management, huge debt and the evolution of the LCC. USAirways must be eliminated. It is the nature of the beast. No cost cutting or employee concessions are going to save them know. Especially with WN coming to Philly. Sad as it is, this can't be avoided. USAirways huge amount of debt is the final nail in their coffin. I wish them luck but just can't see them surviving. You can't blame WN, or Jetblue or any other carrier for that matter. As much as the hardcore aviation enthusiast hates this, the average passenger doesn't care about Boeing or Airbus, this plane or that one, they want the cheapest fare to get from this place to that place. WN does this better than anyone and at the best price.


User currently offlineGSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3016 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3217 times:

Some of us still expect a smattering of comfort along the way....


Finally made it to an airline mecca!
User currently offlineN628AU From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 343 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3181 times:

L1011 said:

Southwest is just 6 years younger than US silly. USAir: Born 1968 Southwest: Born 1974 (or was it 71 or 72?)

N628AU responds:

US actually traces it's roots back to the 1920s as All American Airways (an air mail carrier at the time). A bigger problem they have is the old fashioned union contracts. The mechanics scope clause with the IAM goes back to 1949.


User currently offlineEmmett99 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3141 times:

"Basically, SW is the Greyhound of the skies."

ATLhomeCMH - You shouldn't slam Greyhound like that.




User currently offlineAa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3347 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3129 times:

US Airways side. I think people are thinking of WN as the little guy still. Its funny to see people outraged at AA for buying TW and killing them and all, but still support WN, displacing US Airways in California, BWI and now PHL. Let's face it: WN wants US dead.

AAndrew


User currently offlineAirtran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3704 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3112 times:
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US needs to look into the mirror to find the person to be mad at for them going out of business. It really stinks that thousands of workers stand to lose their jobs, but that's how business works. One of the big six needed to die, and it looks like the bell has begun to toll for US Airways.  Sad


Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlineCMB320 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 413 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3088 times:

I understand the sentiment attached to an airline for different people. If you love US Airways, I'm sure you're very sad about what's happening.

However, you can't let that override common sense. US Airways is not going out of business because of Southwest. US Airways has been struggling for years... thus, they have had years to do something about it. They can't compete, so they're dying. It's like animals in the wild... the strongest and fastest survive. US Airways may have been strong enough to survive this long, but they're not fast enough... and a faster cat is gonna get 'em.

As someone mentioned above, you do want a little comfort along the way. Yeah, so do I. But what is US Airways offering in comfort that any other airline is not? If I want to fly from PHL to LAX, I can fly America West first class and get fabulous comfort for a reasonable price, or I can fly US Airways coach and get the same uncomfortable crappy service that most Legacy carriers offer. THEY CAN'T COMPETE AND THEY'RE NOT TRYING TO AT ALL. I don't see US Airways doing anything that will keep them afloat. Nothing.

I'm certainly sorry that US Airways is struggling so much... it's sad that so many people will lose their livelihoods. However, US Airways has been struggling for so long... it's time to turn off the life support.


User currently offline727200er From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 318 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3085 times:

Personally I agree that you can't blame WN for doing the things that make them money. Those of you who prefer a better experience can pay the extra and fly the legacy carriers. The rest of the people can cram themselves into the LCCs. I hate cattle class but I will put up with it on short hauls. I think I will be flying more on Jetsgo here on Canada though. $25 to get legroom  Big thumbs up


"they who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream only at night" - Edgar Allen Poe
User currently offlineMATURRO727 From Colombia, joined Apr 2004, 304 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3075 times:

Hi OmShanti


I think this is a world of competition and the strongest have to survive and it's very sad the hole deal of US but the thing of WN is impressive, they had changed the way of fly and made easier to some people to fly as my friend OmShanti said, so the strongest is the survivor.


Cheers.



MATURRO727.


User currently offlineERJ From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 245 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3059 times:

I'm a bit annoyed at Southwest moving into Philly. I really don't like Southwest. I have flown them and I really, really did NOT like the experience. The unprofessional atmosphere made me very uncomfortable. F/A's joking during the safety briefing is not cool.

I am bitter about WN 'hunting' US. The fares aren't even cheaper for the lesser product on WN. I plugged in some random dates for May for PHX-PHL and WN was $80+ more expensive than US, DL, HP, AA, UA or NW.

Another reason I hope US survives, all the regional and Int'l flights. Southwest isn't going to replace those flights.


User currently offlineRjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3043 times:

While I totally respect WN's decision to enter PHI, I do feel badly for US, which IMO is a fine airline. And I don't think they will go under, I think they will continue to exist in some form, but on a much smaller scale of an airline than they are now and in different markets.

They should refocus their entire operation out of CLT with a good mix of 32X, RJs, and 330s. No sense in wasting assets fighting WN when WN is going to win one way or the other.

Also, WN entering PHI is also a huge slap in the face of B6. It is WN saying "We aren't afraid to enter major airports," it is one less major market for B6 to enter in the near future, it is a warning shot to JetBlue.


User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5692 posts, RR: 52
Reply 24, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3010 times:

Southwest all the way....and I also supported the AA take over TWA, because I knew in the end it was for the best.

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
25 LHcapt2007 : 1st of all, not everyone has to feel 1st class when they fly, a lot of people just want to get to their destination safely. Whether they get a few mor
26 Aloha717200 : Well, naturally I don't want an airline to die off, and US is no exception. So I'd say I'm on the side of US, but relatively impartial, because I am a
27 Post contains images OPNLguy : >>>I don't get all of this anti-WN sentiment. That's easy to figure out.... It's a heck of alot easier to make SWA (or for that matter, any LCC) out t
28 Aa757first : I'm (of course) not a business traveler. But if I were flying, let's say PHL - MIA three times a month, I qualify for Silver Preferred which gives me
29 Aloha717200 : Every SW aircraft I've ever been on (several of them) has been shoddy, unkempt, and SW's terminals and gates less than eye-catching. On some routes, y
30 BA747400 : Aa757first, Its funny you should say that, because I was just thinking about that today! I fly about once a month for personal reasons, but starting i
31 ATLhomeCMH : Emmett99: Can't help but say it, but that's the truth in my opinion. They are an alternative to a "normal" airline, an industry leader such as US, DL,
32 ATLhomeCMH : Aloha717200: I WOULD think better of SW if they had assigned seating and a business class. And better customer service. I take my airline choices seri
33 Post contains images Cactus739 : Let me start by saying I want both to win. I want US Airways to survive, and Southwest to thrive. I've flown both in the past year and have been happy
34 Post contains images Aloha717200 : Better customer service at WN? Couldnt hurt, after all, their service is already better than the majors, can only be a positive if it gets even better
35 Post contains images OPNLguy : >>>--They take advantage of the non-self respecting Americans' acceptance that airline services have been cut, and "Well, most airline services suck,
36 Aloha717200 : At some point, it just wasn't worth paying the higher fare for meals (know anyone tha -likes- airline food?), And to add to that, this is hardly an is
37 Sprxflyswa : ERJ: Did the WN fares and the others have the same restrictions,etc or were their's for only 4 seats on the plane and have 1,000 rules and change of
38 Unmlobo : I think that calling someone who flys Southwest non-self respecting (or implying such) is totally irresponsible. What is wrong with wanting to save mo
39 Delta767300ER : WN's part of the terminal at MCO are only 4 years old and are in the newest and most spacious part of the airport. I havent had any problems with Sout
40 NIKV69 : Unmlobo, You said it perfectly, there are a lot of people here with an axe to grind with WN simply out of jealousy, I am sure WN has it's share of whi
41 ATLhomeCMH : I respect all the criticisms of my opinions, and that's fair game. And yes, I do view SW as a trailor trash airline...hehe...for all the aforementione
42 ATLhomeCMH : p.s. I have this question for the rest of you...what suggestions/brainstorm ideas/observations do you have for the salvaging of jobs/aircraft fleet if
43 Access-Air : Its really sad when an airline must curtail their service in a big city...but sometimes because they held, as some of you said, onto their eons old un
44 ATLhomeCMH : I agree...I think the buy out of TW by AA was done under false pretenses/expectations, and it was a shock when we found out AA's true motives. But, li
45 InnocuousFox : Hey... may the best man win.
46 Goingboeing : Man....I wish I worked for some of these companies who would allow their employees to spend time changing planes at a hub so that they can get "silver
47 Ssides : I also don't understand the anti-Southwest sentiment that seems to invade this board from time to time. I may be wrong, but it seems to me that the an
48 094147 : There is enough business in PHL for both carriers. If US would focus on cost control and productivity and throw out the stuffy unfriendly attitude tow
49 DeltaRules : I'm on the side of US, but on the same note, am not going to blame WN if US does go under. Another reason I hope US survives, all the regional and Int
50 Goingboeing : Another reason I hope US survives, all the regional and Int'l flights. Southwest isn't going to replace those flights. No, but if demand is there, Ame
51 GVROYphx : This is my opinion...US go out of business already...do us all a favor...you're on borrowed time. Roy
52 NWAFA : I really hope US makes it. Would be sad to see ANOTHER legacy carrier go. WN is coming to PHL, I think, to take on JetBlue. I dont think they came to
53 Tom in NO : In all the years I've flown WN, I have not had a single problem, and have always been completely satisfied with the service they've provided. Put anot
54 Brons2 : I think this says it all right here: That all being said, I do have to go to phili in July on my own dollar; this will, without a doubt be on WN. Case
55 Brons2 : --They take advantage of the non-self respecting Americans' acceptance that airline services have been cut, and "Well, most airline services suck, so
56 Scottb : As I stated in another thread, US Airways has largely brought its woes upon itself and cannot simply blame Southwest, although it certainly makes for
57 Brons2 : I dont know why you guys like to think of WN as the trailer-trash airline, but I think it's kind of ironic...that...you put yourselves above the level
58 Brons2 : I wouldn't say that I feel "above" flying Southwest, but that I'd rather give my business to a carrier such as one of the big 5 (DL, AA, UA, CO, or NW
59 Post contains images RayChuang : I think you folks need to pipe down your anger before I report this message thread to the admins and moderators here. But let's face it: US Airways' v
60 OmShanti : Thankyou all for your informative responses. Best regards Omshanti
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