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New Baa 'spotter' Id Card  
User currently offlineSergy2k From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 63 posts, RR: 0
Posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 4399 times:

check out

http://www.baa.com/main/corporate/newsdesk/news_releases/2004/586f8b37c31e650380256e7500567929_page.html

makes for interesting reading
regards
sergy2k

38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePortcolumbus From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 1614 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 4343 times:

That's an excellent idea, and what many of us spotters have been preaching for years. We are extra eyes and ears around the airports, and it's great to see someone realizing that.

User currently offlineBR715-A1-30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 4294 times:

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is exactly what we need. Finally, at least somebody has some brains.

User currently offlineDC-10 Levo From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 3432 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 4221 times:

"Aviation enthusiasts are watching the activities of the airport everyday and their legitimate interest can only be to our advantage. They may see someone they don't recognized as part of their community whose interest in the airport is not genuine."

About time someone actually realized that! Great news!  Big thumbs up

DC-10


User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12480 posts, RR: 34
Reply 4, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 4207 times:

Great, so we scratch their backs (and pick up rubbish for them as well); what, if I may ask, do we get in return? Only BAA's back is being scratched here.

That said, it is a good idea. How does one get in contact with LAAS?


User currently offlineSammyhostie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 4190 times:

it will purely be an id card for you. so you will only be able to spot where you do now.


it takes workers airside at least 4 months to get an airside pass now, You would not believe how strict the guys at BAA are now. it takes 12 weeks just to get a basic disclosure certificate back now.


User currently offlineSabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 4178 times:

Can also foreigners get the card?

Frederic


User currently onlineAloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4506 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 4141 times:

I actually proposed something like this on the John Kerry site, as something that the government should really look into. You can read my plan here, and comment if you like:


http://forum.johnkerry.com/index.php?showtopic=16872&hl=


User currently offlineTeahan From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 5294 posts, RR: 61
Reply 8, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 4090 times:

What next? Will spotters also have to start wearing some kind of symbol?

I don't like this move one bit. What about those spotters without ID cards, will those be harassed and/or asked to move along? What about those of us at BAA airports only for the day, weekend or afternoon?

Realistically, this is the BAA taking away, most definitely not ‘giving’. Reminds me of that recently installed ‘obervsation deck’ at LHR.









Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17054 posts, RR: 67
Reply 9, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 4053 times:

Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. This is a great idea and works well. If these things don't happen, police will start to shoot on sight soon.


BTW I emailed "Larry King Live" and proposed this as a topic with the following text:

This is a proposal for a topic. It's about perimeter security at airports.

As you know, there are several proposals in the works to tighten it further. These proposals are all pretty costly. Further, they alienate true aviation enthusiasts ("spotters") who sit around outside the fence and take pictures as part of their hobby. These spotters have often, in the past, reported suspicious or even dangerous activity to the police, thus helping law enforcement and tightening security at no cost.

My proposal is to air this topic in a program, with representatives from the spotter community, as well as federal and airport security officials.

For some more background info, I refer you to a thread on the Airliners.net message board: http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1514466/ and a thread on the Senator John Kerry message board: http://forum.johnkerry.com/index.php?showtopic=16872&hl=

The programs spoken about are in place at several large airports, including Vancouver.

I would be happy to assist in finding a few spotters.

Kind regards,



I propose that if you also want your views to be aired, you contact the show here:
http://edition.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/larry.king.live/

[Edited 2004-04-15 18:56:57]


"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineThomasphoto60 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3967 posts, RR: 22
Reply 10, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 4003 times:

On the face of it , it sounds great but the more I read it the more I get kind of a 'Orwellian' vibe from it. I can't put my finger on it, however it just feels a bit suspicious.

Oh well, if it works for those in the UK more power to them.

Thomas



"Show me the Braniffs"
User currently offlineTeahan From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 5294 posts, RR: 61
Reply 11, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3976 times:

@Starlionblue:

'This is a great idea and works well.'

Can you substantiate that?

Jeremiah



Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17054 posts, RR: 67
Reply 12, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3955 times:

Nope, just an opinion. Sorry, should have clarified that  Big grin


"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineAirbusfanYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2002, 1434 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3911 times:

Good for the BAA!
I along with a few others are working to have our organization's ID card recognized so our members can have trouble-free spotting around YYZ.
We're close to announcing more info very soon.
Keep an eye out at http://www.yyzspotter.com for more info in the coming weeks.

Cheers,
Kaz



t.dot photography
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17054 posts, RR: 67
Reply 14, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3879 times:

AirbusfanYYZ. You'll have to forgive me for telling the Larry King show that YYZSpotter was in Vancouver.

Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa! Embarrassment



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineAa61hvy From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 13977 posts, RR: 57
Reply 15, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks ago) and read 3877 times:

It's a good idea, but what is going to stop a terrorist from getting one of these ID cards?


Go big or go home
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17054 posts, RR: 67
Reply 16, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks ago) and read 3864 times:

Nothing at all. But the other spotters might be able to wrestle him to the ground when he unpacks the Stinger from his backpack.

EDIT: Correction. The background check would help. After all, if he passes that, he can work airside at the airport anyway.

[Edited 2004-04-15 19:17:09]


"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineSammyhostie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks ago) and read 3796 times:

Starlion,

Spotters wont be able to go airside, and to transfer the passes to airside workwe with an airline still takes 9 weeks.

Believe me, ive been doing it for 4 years!

BAA are bastards.


User currently offlineVoodoo From Niue, joined Mar 2001, 2079 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks ago) and read 3745 times:

The LAAS article doesn't explain how one goes about applying for a card.

Its `an idea'.... but I am not sure I like the notion of some spotters who happen to be part of `an organization' suddenly feeling able to decide who is one of them and who should be open to harrassment by them or by the friendly neighbourhood coppers. The jury is still out on this one.



` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17054 posts, RR: 67
Reply 19, posted (10 years 5 months 3 weeks ago) and read 3704 times:

Sammyhostie, I'm aware that they won't be able to go airside. However, if they have to do a version of the same background check as airside personnel I would feel reasonably confident to have the outside the perimeter fence with a camera.


"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineBen From Switzerland, joined Aug 1999, 1391 posts, RR: 50
Reply 20, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3635 times:


BAA are bastards.


Correct.

BAA don't care about you. BAA don't care about anyone. BAA only care about making money. They are sly bastards.

I am not giving my details to anyone that I don't have to. They can take a running jump.

You have no more or less access, and no more or less rights if you have the card or not. Why would anyone want to get it? To feel like they are part of a 'brotherhood'? "We are all flighting the evil terrorists together! Here's my card to prove it." Everyone wants to be a hero.

BAA, the government, and anyone else it suits on any particular day are just playing us all for gullible, ignorant fools.

BAA are no different than the railways. A bunch of fat-cats who can't help to get rich. They're milking it dry, giving nothing back, and when/if something goes wrong (which is unlikely since with an absolute monopoly they can't not make money) they will all just retire to the Bahamas.


User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 55
Reply 21, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3613 times:

For those who think this will only benefit those with ID's, I don't believe that is the case. I too am involved with YYZSpotter, and our goal is not only to allow our members to spot without as many hassles, but also to promote spotting so that everyone can enjoy it. I truly believe that anyone will benefit from this, and it is not intended to be an elitist cult banishing the occasional spotter from enjoying their hobby.


"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offlineSkyguy From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 481 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3556 times:

I think its a brilliant idea. I was a frequent visitor to the spotters gallery on top of T2 several years ago, nothing like that here at JFK that I have found.

Finally getting some more perks and recognition, apart from that smoky smelly room they had for spotters and the below-average cafe on the T2 terrace.



"Those who talk, do not know, and those who know, do not talk."
User currently offlineBen From Switzerland, joined Aug 1999, 1391 posts, RR: 50
Reply 23, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3529 times:

I think its a brilliant idea. I was a frequent visitor to the spotters gallery on top of T2 several years ago, nothing like that here at JFK that I have found.

Thanks to BAA's misguided view of security, it's now closed. Forever.

Finally getting some more perks and recognition....

What 'perks' do you think you are getting? I didn't read any in the report.

...apart from that smoky smelly room they had for spotters and the below-average cafe on the T2 terrace.

Now there is no smoky smelly room, or any other shelter when you're standing beside a busy road. There is no below-average cafe. No cafe.

Please don't be happy that they are giving you squat. Oh yeah, no toilets either. It's squatting or a tree, unfortunately.


User currently offlineSkyguy From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 481 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3493 times:

Ben: Hmm... I recall there being a glass-walled room on the terrace on top of T2 at LHR, there were toilets there and a small cafe. Has it all been shut down? On a Sunday you could find anything upto 50 regular spotters with cameras, radios etc. etc. spending time there. Perhaps other BAA managed airports do not have this but LHR T2 definitely did and to my knowledge still does. You can of course choose to go and try various car parks and other corners around LHR, but get anywhere near the fence and one of the police cars that patrol the perimeter road will shoo you away.

As for perks, I guess you are right, nothing there except they may not interrogate you so much if you do end up prowling around roads and spots where others normally don't go to and the BAA police find you.



"Those who talk, do not know, and those who know, do not talk."
25 Trident2e : What a stupid and completely unworkable idea. Heathrow gets hundreds, if not thousands, of day tripping spotterts each year from all over Europe. Now
26 Ben : I recall there being a glass-walled room on the terrace on top of T2 at LHR, there were toilets there and a small cafe. Has it all been shut down? Yes
27 DABZF : If I'm not mistaken... you need a FCAA Photo ID in Helsinki to be allowed to take pictures around the airport - at least you need it if you are airsid
28 BN747 : "For those who think this will only benefit those with ID's, I don't believe that is the case. I too am involved with YYZSpotter, and our goal is not
29 Jhooper : I don't think I like the idea, but it's certainly better than a 'no spotting allowed' rule.
30 Post contains images GKirk : Can also foreigners get the card? I would imagine that it would only be available for people that live in the UK, so probably no to your answer Im afr
31 MD : DABZF, nope, there's no need for any kind of an ID card for spotting.. -VR-
32 Flying Belgian : From what I've read on BAA's website, I find the idea pretty cool. Let's hope evryone will be pleased this time. FB.
33 Delboy : GKirk asked "Great, so we scratch their backs (and pick up rubbish for them as well); what, if I may ask, do we get in return?" Well for a start you g
34 Kaitak : Actually, I asked that, Delboy! I think, in fairness to BAA, it's a step in the right direction, but I think we are going to have to know a little mor
35 Ua935 : There is another thread about this up and running in the aviation photography forum with a link to the LAAS site. What they don't tell you in the BAA
36 Delboy : Kaitak I would hardly call what BAA has provided, a step, would you? Have you seen it in the flesh? I have and it's an absolute joke.
37 Ben : Easy way for someone to become very rich by something which can't be enforced. Exactly!! How can it be enforced??? So I don't have a 'spotter ID card'
38 N754pr : Ben, Your spot on... unless your in the states. As you know you cant even talk to a US cop without being given a warning, they are right you are wrong
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