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SLC To LGW, CDG, Etc.  
User currently offlineBubbinski From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 159 posts, RR: 0
Posted (10 years 8 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2958 times:

The SLC-FLL thread got me to thinking: what would the chances be for Delta starting transatlantic service from SLC? I know that the carrier's not in real good financial shape right now, they'll need to get that sorted out first. But when they do, I would hope that they add a transatlantic flight or two. I think that with the region's growing population and its unique attractions (such as ski resorts, etc.), as well as the SLC hub's links to many Western areas there's got to be some market for this.

Bubbinski


"Simplify" - Thoreau
28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 8 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2932 times:

what would the chances be for Delta starting transatlantic service from SLC?

Zero. They've made it quite clear.



would hope that they add a transatlantic flight or two

I suggest a new hobby  Smile


User currently offlineEzra From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 475 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (10 years 8 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2919 times:

Zero. They've made it quite clear.

Just curious, is this the stated policy of the company or a conjecture based on DL's patterns of behavior (i.e., east-coast concentration on ATL, CVG & JFK)?

Thanks!


User currently offlineSpeedbirdHeavy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 427 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (10 years 8 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2901 times:

SLC is not a big enough market to sustain transatlantic service like the one proposed. I just don't see the capacity for it from a market that size.

Plus, after living there for about 3 years, I wouldn't want some poor unsuspecting European to get their first taste of America from SLC. It could be pretty scarring. Stay the hell away from the place! It's a different planet!



China Airlines...Come fry with us!
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (10 years 8 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2875 times:

is this the stated policy of the company or a conjecture based on DL's patterns of behavior (i.e., east-coast concentration on ATL, CVG & JFK)?

Lil' bit o' both...

...SLC's offered incentive packages and other promotions in order to spur DL into providing even seasonal nonstop transatlantic service, and to no avail.

In fact, in mid 2001... DL had plans for FLL, MSY, and BOS nonstop to CDG; all ahead of SLC. None of them came to fruition.


User currently offline757KSLC From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 233 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (10 years 8 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2850 times:

"Plus, after living there for about 3 years, I wouldn't want some poor unsuspecting European to get their first taste of America from SLC. It could be pretty scarring. Stay the hell away from the place! It's a different planet!"

LOL! Ouch! As much as I would like to argue your opinion, I'm not even going to touch that. Everyone has their own opinion, some people love it here, some people hate it. There is no in the middle. Sorry you had a bad experience.



"That wasn't flying! That was falling with style!" Woody, Toy Story.
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7633 posts, RR: 42
Reply 6, posted (10 years 8 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2838 times:

Why would Europeans visit Salt Lake City's ski resorts when they have their own in Austria, Switzerland and France???


Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offline757KSLC From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 233 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (10 years 8 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2812 times:

Same reason a lot of Americans go to Europe to ski. Just for a change.


"That wasn't flying! That was falling with style!" Woody, Toy Story.
User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3224 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (10 years 8 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2805 times:

EddieDude

I can answer that question. Its the snow. its amazing. There is nothing like it in europe as far as quality of the powder is concerned. It would only be hard core european skiiers or wealthy europeans because it costs a lot more to ski in america than it does in say, Austria, but if you really want to ski in the most amazing powder snow anywhere, its in Utah and Colorado.

As for SLC... well I used to live up in Deer Valley, the ski resort about 40 minutes drive outside salt lake because im a bit of a mad skiier myself. In the last few years, a lot of ppl from California have shifted to SLC, and its no longer the place it used to be. Infact only about 50% of SLC are mormans now... the rest are from San Fran and LA. Yes, its a regional place. Europeans flying into SLC aren't going there to see SLC itself... but to go to the rocky mountains. However, I doubt that will be much business in itself..most of those ppl are now flying into DEN on BA or LH at the moment and connecting thru. The big market, at least for delta, would be to draw on the large population in the region. The can realistically fly ppl from Portland, Seattle, Vancover, San Fran, LA, Las Vagas, Montana, Boise, arizona and even Denver. They've just got to take advantage of the hub. The trouble is, there not going to sell a lot of business class tickets, and thats where the money is to be made. I think it could still support say, 2x 764s a week. if you were smart, you would market this to connect thru to Honolulu and you could tap into the british market that wants to go to hawaii. (although it aint tha big, it all helps fill the plan). Or maybe a triangle flight to Las Vagas. eg... LAS-SLC-LGW-LAS. The rocky mountains are an amazing place...even if both SLC and Denver are a little boring themselves. There definately could be a big tourist market if its done right.

PS - you may have more luck getting Air France to send a 332 across the pond a few times a week.

[Edited 2004-04-24 08:19:07]

User currently offlineSpeedbirdHeavy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 427 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (10 years 8 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2792 times:

Why would Europeans visit Salt Lake City's ski resorts when they have their own in Austria, Switzerland and France???

That's very true. The only thing Utah has going for it is the skiing. However, Utahns don't really have a worldy view, so the notion of traveling out of the country, let a lone the state, is quite "foreign" to them.

Europeans are quite a liberal and certainly a more forward thinking society. To go to a place like SLC, would be nothing more than instant regression. The idea of visiting a place where the liquor laws are archaic, the resistance to change is constant and the people are downright unfriendly, would be a severe culture shock. Just walk down the streets of SLC and you'll see no one smiles at you. There is no friendly wave to strangers. Born and bred Utahns are mostly robotic and emotionless. Plus, there is no such thing as customer service. Like I said, it's another planet.

So, I revert to my original statement that there would not be enough capacity to support transatlantic flights.




China Airlines...Come fry with us!
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (10 years 8 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2763 times:

I think it could still support say, 2x 764s a week

DL 764ERs do not operate intercontinentally



Or maybe a triangle flight to Las Vagas. eg... LAS-SLC-LGW-LAS

Nonstop LAS-LGW is specifically off limit to all USA carriers.




you may have more luck getting Air France to send a 332 across the pond a few times a week.

You'd have more luck squeezing Tinkerbell through your bum cheeks  Big grin

AF's A332s are configured for high-yield,small-capacity markets; the former of which SLC is not.


User currently offlineDeltaMIA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1672 posts, RR: 17
Reply 11, posted (10 years 8 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2733 times:

"Zero. They've made it quite clear"

I wouldn't say zero. DL is at the point now where anything is possible. With the right incentives DL will do anything. The major incentive being no incurred costs. This summer you will see a few routes (none being SLC-Europe) that may make you scratch your head. DL will not add a route that will incur any costs even if it is simply $100 to pay a contracted ground service company to turn the aircraft. However SLC-Europe is about as close to zero as you can get.



It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
User currently offlineJkudall From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 615 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (10 years 8 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2735 times:

Some of you obviously have a grudge against SLC for some reason. Like 757KSLC said, you either like it here or you don't. It's your opinion, and I don't have a problem with that. Now here is my opinion.

I for one, like it here. The climate's good, it's beautiful, clean, peaceful, traffic is almost nonexistent, and the people are friendly. I can leave my house and be on the slopes in some of the best snow in the world in 20 minutes, boating in Lake Powell, or biking down some of the most challenging trails in the world (i.e. slick rock in Moab) within a few hours. Utah also has five National Parks. Most states don't have any National Parks, let alone five.

Tourism has also picked up dramatically here, especially since the 2002 Olympics. How many other cities can say they hosted the world's largest sporting event?

As far as SLC-Europe service is concerned, this has been brought up several times here, mostly pre-9/11. SLC-London service was actually applied for in the mid to late 90's, but the DOT awarded routes to RDU and somewhere else (I think BNA...not sure) instead.

SLC has been a very worthy hub for DL, and will continue to be. With the large number of people who make connections in SLC everyday (trust me, I deal with them all day long), SLC-LGW would work. There are occaisonal charters from SLC to Europe.

Take a look at some other routes from SLC, like the SLC-HNL route DL flies. This is flight generally has the highest load factor over any of the other routes DL flies to HNL. It goes out full almost every day.

I don't spend much time on these message boards, but I thought I would give my two cents.

I think London is in SLC's future, but it may be a while.




User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (10 years 8 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2718 times:

Jkudall,
you make the common error of equating "full" with "profitable".

No doubt DL could fill a 767 from SLC to Europe, but the yield on such a flight would be 'injustifiable', to put it lightly. Hence the fact that it's never even been planned... let alone done.



think London is in SLC's future, but it may be a while

Should you be holding your breath for that, I suggest you choose this as an opportunity to exhale.  Big grin

SLC is not an alternate gateway for Heathrow nor Gatwick service according to the current bilateral; meaning that for SLC-LON to be operated by Delta, either:
  • Delta would have to operate the service into Stansted/Luton (fat chance)
  • Bermuda II would have to be annulled (fat chance)
  • Bermuda II would have to be modified (has happened before, but at this point-- fat chance)

    ...in other words, you'd be better off buying a hangglider for SLC-LON, because it'll get you there before DL ever does  Big grin


  • User currently offline757KSLC From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 233 posts, RR: 0
    Reply 14, posted (10 years 8 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2696 times:

    SpeedbirdHeavy, I don't know how you formed your opinion, but thankfully that's all it is, just your opinion. I have lived here in SLC for almost 3 years now, and I quite enjoy it. Reading your opinion on Utahans unfriendliness, robotic and emotionless and lack of a worldly view, is a shock to me, and I'm sure extremely offensive to any native Utahans who may read this. In my time here, I have encountered quite the opposite. Yea its a very conservative area, I'll give you that, but the people here and just as friendly as anywhere else I have ever lived or visited. Again, I don't know how you formed your opinion, and I'm sorry you had a bad experience, but take your negative, bitter, hating opinion of the SLC area somewhere else. It has no place in these forums. I don't know where you are from originally, but I know you wouldn't want others saying those things you said about your area. I would hope you have enough class to offer the same courtesy.


    "That wasn't flying! That was falling with style!" Woody, Toy Story.
    User currently offlineTomgib From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 92 posts, RR: 0
    Reply 15, posted (10 years 8 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2678 times:

    757kslc I totally agree with you and I should know as was born and raised in Ogden. Speedbirdheavy plays too much golf in the Phoenix heat....

    User currently offlineDeltaAgent1 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 104 posts, RR: 2
    Reply 16, posted (10 years 8 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2630 times:

    This question has been posed to Delta officials in Station meetings before, and their answer to us has been that Eastbound SLC hub traffic has more choices to European destinations that SLC could ever hope to offer, and the convenience factor would eliminate SLC pulling profitable loads. Most California cities, and those in the Northwest can more conveniently connect to Europe
    through LAX SFO & SEA, (the points where feed would arrive from if Euro destinations were on the route map from SLC) or through farther East coast hubs such as ORD, CVG, ATL, DFW, IAH, JFK, EWR. Local O & D traffic in SLC could not support any European destination according to DL officials, and they used DEN as an example. If I remember correctly when the question was posed to him, he said "do you see a buffet of choices with N/S service to Europe from DEN?, & if DEN doesn't have it with 3 times the O & D traffic as SLC, I'm sure you won't see N/S Euro service from SLC anytime soon.


    User currently offlineSushka From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 4784 posts, RR: 15
    Reply 17, posted (10 years 8 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2441 times:

    However, Utahns don't really have a worldy view, so the notion of traveling out of the country, let a lone the state, is quite "foreign" to them.

    You must be kidding right? Utah has got to be one of the most well traveled states in the country. I have been to 20 countries, Next door neighbors to at least 10, other neighbors about 5 and so on.

    Im not originally from Utah, and I do prefer my state of Wisconsin but it is just fine.

    I agree that the airport is not big enough for transatlantic flights. Although we did have some good charters during the Olympics and the Aeroflot 777 visits a few months ago were cool.



    Pershoyu Spravoyu Litaki!
    User currently offlineB4real From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2661 posts, RR: 5
    Reply 18, posted (10 years 8 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2419 times:

    I think we would be more likely (but still not likely) to see SLC-ICN codeshare on KE or SLC-NRT codeshare on NW (even less likely)

    [Edited 2004-04-24 22:13:25]


    B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
    User currently offlineAnthsaun From Mexico, joined Apr 2004, 544 posts, RR: 3
    Reply 19, posted (10 years 8 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2315 times:

    There are two kinds of blind people; the ones their eyes do not send a picture to the brain; and the ones the brain does not get the picture when the eyes work just right.

    I attended college in Utah and I visit back once in a while, so I know the place and the people.

    My intention is to offend no one. I'll just place the facts.

    Sushka is right, people from Utah travel a lot and they really know the world. At age 19, over 70% of men have lived abroad.
    50% of the population is bilingual.
    Several large businesses settle in Utah because they can communicate to the rest of the world in what ever language by Americans, not foreigners.
    There are more computers by citizen in Utah than anywhere else in the world.
    A large amount of new consumer products are tested in Utah because of results accuracy.
    Health quality is top of the Nation.
    GDP per Capita is one of the highest in the Nation. (I hope some guys know what this is).
    50% of the SLC outbound travelers are locals.

    Just a few guys do not fit in Utah, and some of those, do not fit anywhere.

    Well, now let's get back to the Delta issue. One of the facts Delta does not fly to Europe from SLC is because it would kill other flights from CVG, BOS, even ATL.
    Also, we are used to Hubs, and actually, we love them. Even if we depart from a hub, we try to go throw another one before getting to our final destination.



    Over 80 years in business say a lot about success
    User currently offlineBubbinski From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 159 posts, RR: 0
    Reply 20, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2172 times:

    Others like Sushka, Jkudall have already spoken up so I don't have much to add except that I don't find the people here to be unfriendly and have had many good experiences living in and visiting Utah. Living here is a lot less stressful than living in other places that I know well (less traffic, lower cost of living, less crime etc.) and if I want a good vacation I'm not very far away from Vegas, Wendover, Mesquite, Yellowstone, the Rockies, Sun Valley, Zion/Bryce Canyon, Capitol Reef, Moab, Durango, etc.

    I did read the thread on Bermuda 2 and service to London wouldn't be possible unless some cities were added, but if Skyteam wants to fly to the western U.S. from overseas, why I'd be happy to see some Air France and Korean Air birds flying in from CDG or ICN....

    Bubbinski



    "Simplify" - Thoreau
    User currently offlineAloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4525 posts, RR: 15
    Reply 21, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2132 times:

    I don't get what your problem with SLC is...I practically live in SLC and love the place. It's home. I'm in the city 1-2 times a month and it's been that way since my early childhood, and the only part of the city I don't like to hang around is the southwestern suburbs...West Valley City in particular. But SLC is a great, friendly, very clean town in my experience. We've got beggars and trouble makers like any other urban area does but the city tries to keep the town as clean as possible. In fact a big issue seems to be the ever-present protestors near Temple Square. People protesting the LDS religion and the like. It's really stupid and baseless. I'm not even religious and I still find it stupid.


    There is some prejudice between LDS/non-lds...but it's not a huge deal and if you just ignore it it isn't a problem. Tell me, does Los Angeles, New York, Phoenix, Las Vegas, San Francisco, Portland, Seattle, etc...not have their share of problems? Give me SLC anyday. And this area is gorgeous. No one can top our mountains.


    Now back to the original topic. I sure as heck wish that transatlantic service from SLC would happen, but i don't think it will. It's a huge shame really, SLC would probably be profitable with the right frequency and aircraft. It'd be nice to get Lufthansa in here....imagine an A340 parked at the D gates!!  Big thumbs up


    User currently offlineBubbinski From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 159 posts, RR: 0
    Reply 22, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2112 times:

    @Aloha 717200

    An A340 parked at the D gates would be cool! And since I live under the flight path I'd get to see it flying in too.

    Maybe when the 7e7 comes out....might that be the right bird for Delta to start an overseas service or two from SLC? I know I'd love to see that bird flying overhead, and I'd love it even more if I got to fly on it.

    Bubbinski



    "Simplify" - Thoreau
    User currently offlineKlmyank From Netherlands, joined May 2004, 172 posts, RR: 1
    Reply 23, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2107 times:

    All us poor Europeans staggering around trying to find a "private drinking club", then lighting a fag on the street and being bashed up by the straight edge.............

    User currently offline762er From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 542 posts, RR: 1
    Reply 24, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2090 times:

    SpeedbirdHeavy: Wow, that was aggressive. I've been to Utah twice for skiing vacations and enjoyed both immensely. THe people, contrary to your opinion, I found to be abnormally friendly and willing to go out of their way to help. I'm sorry you had a rough experience there, but to generalize the whole Utah population with that kind of negative rhetoric is simply irresponsible.

    25 Aloha717200 : The idea of visiting a place where the liquor laws are archaic, the resistance to change is constant and the people are downright unfriendly, Gonna ag
    26 Aloha717200 : 757kslc I totally agree with you and I should know as was born and raised in Ogden. Speedbirdheavy plays too much golf in the Phoenix heat.... Now Ogd
    27 Vctony : Phoenix and unfriendly people doesn't seem to mesh, at least with me. I find the people in Phoenix to be some of the friendliest of people I've ever m
    28 TWA902fly : If we're talking about cities in Utah with a bad reputation... Tooele (if thats spelled correctly). But anyways... I personally like Salt Lake myself
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