Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Why No More Air India In YYZ?  
User currently offlineFlug From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (10 years 8 months 1 week ago) and read 4127 times:

I remember Air India flying to YYZ until sometime in the late 90's. I was just wondering if anyone knows why they stopped flying into YYZ, do the maybe fly to other Canadian Airports like YUL or YVR?

11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 8 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4050 times:

do the maybe fly to other Canadian Airports like YUL or YVR?

No, AI does not serve any airport in Canado at the moment. Nevertheless, since AI is developing FRA as its European Hub, we could expect them serving YYZ in, let's assume, two years again. This is my own prognosis and it depends on the decision whether other transatlantic destinations, like SFO or IAH will be given priority to YYZ or not - maybe s/o else has more info. Once the 340 (or 777s - see below) will be ordered, let's say September and beginning to operate, let's say End of next year (or in the middle, if leased) we could expect North American destinations to increase, since AI identified North America as one of the most important future markets.

The reasons why they pult out: as far as I know they made big losses on the root, although demand should not be too low in regard to the large Indian population in Toronto (and other cities like Vancouver etc,,,). I am sure Sean can give detailed reasons.


By the way, AI also served Montreal for some time in the 80s...


in reference to the order. On my last flight a week ago on AI, I chatted with a very friendly FA for about an hour on AI. And he told me that he expects AI to switch the order from 340 to 777 and the 738 to 320... I am not sure how profound his information is, but he might know well from the source... I personally am a little doubtful, but in view of the IC order switch in the mod 80s not very unrealistic... any other source from s/o on this rumour?? Appreciate other info

[Edited 2004-04-24 18:13:27]

User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4852 posts, RR: 44
Reply 2, posted (10 years 8 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3932 times:

AI stopped YYZ in 92-93 because it was offered ORD and didnt have spare aircraft to fly to ORD and YYZ seperately and they felt that ORD had a brighter future than YYZ had for them so they decided to withdraw from YYZ and stick with ORD.

As you can see now, it probably was a wise move as ORD for them has grown from strength to strength and from initially being 3 weekly B 747s via LHR, its soon gonna be daily via LHR (3) and AB) (FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">FRA (4).

Though I wouldnt rule out a future reentry into YYZ for AI as AC are doing pretty well on the DEL route.


User currently offlineFlug From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (10 years 8 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3886 times:

I didn't think AC was flying to DEL. So is AI codesharing then with AC? Thanks for the info guys.

User currently offlineLtbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13202 posts, RR: 16
Reply 4, posted (10 years 8 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3886 times:

Could it be possible that AI pulled out of YYZ, other Canadian airports due to security and terrorism events in the mid-1980's. There was the AI flight from YYZ to LHR that blew up just off the coast of Ireland (been by spot that overlooks near where a/c ended up, is memorial marker there) and a situation where luggage for an AI flight blew up at an airport in Canada near the same time. I believe in both cases Siiks, whom are a minority cultural group in India, were blamed as the terrorists. (Siiks and Hindus had a shaky relationship for a number of years in the 1980's-early 1990's).

User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 8 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3810 times:

it probably was a wise move as ORD for them has grown from strength to strength and from initially being 3 weekly B 747s via LHR, its soon gonna be daily via LHR (3) and AB) (FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">FRA (4).

Interesting, but factually incorrect.

Operations to Chicago started in November 1996 with 2x weekly service via Frankfurt, switched to 2x weekly service via London in June 1997, increased to 6x weekly service (3x London, 3x Frankfurt) in mid-1998, reduced to 3x weekly service via London in May 1999 and back upto 6x weekly service (3x London, 3x Frankfurt) in December 2003.

Also, there has been no formal announcement nor specific plan to add a 4th weekly service via Frankfurt, unless you know something we don't.


User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 8 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3785 times:

AI stopped YYZ in 92-93 because it was offered ORD and didnt have spare aircraft to fly to ORD and YYZ seperately

Again, interesting story but yet again factually incorrect.

AI opened Canada service with a BOM-DEL-FRA-LHR-YMX-LHR-DEL-BOM service on October 2, 1982 operating 2x weekly on Wednesdays and Saturdays.

Service to YYZ was inaugurated on January 19, 1985 and the service became once weekly with a routing of BOM-DEL-FRA-YYZ-YMX-LHR-DEL-BOM operating on Saturdays.

Service to Canada was suspended indefinitely from June 30, 1985 following the bombing of AI 182 operated by VT-EFO by Canadian-based extremists.

Toronto services were reinstated in 1989 with a twice-weekly routing of India-LHR-YYZ-LHR-India.

In summer of 1992, the services were operated as daily flights with routings of India-LHR-JFK-YYZ-JFK-LHR-India on 5 days of the week (no 5th freedom JFK-YYZ and pax in sterile transit) and India-LHR-YYZ the remaining two days(may actually have been 5x total with 3x via JFK and 2x via LHR, I don't recall for sure).

Service was cancelled in the fall of 1992 and reinstated in summer of 1993 using a mixture of 742s and 743s. The service switched to a 742/744 mixed operation from December 12, 1993 when VT-ESO made her maiden revenue flight as AI 188 from YYZ-LHR-BOM after a ferry PAE-YYZ.

The last flight to YYZ was on March 11, 1997 when the service was suspended due to lack of LHR slot availability.

[Edited 2004-04-25 05:29:40]

User currently offlinePbb152 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 619 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (10 years 8 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3770 times:

Mrniji or B747-437B,

Since you two seem to be somewhat in the know regarding AI, how likely is it that they will begin service to IAH in the next 5 years? I know that hinges on when the new aircraft come on line, but let's assume they get past that little wrinkle in short order. Is IAH still in their plans as it was in the 90's. I've heard recently that AI may be interested in DFW and I assume they would not launch both IAH and DFW. Also I know SFO and YYZ are probably high on the list. We sure would love to see AI here in Houston. Any ideas?


Pete


User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 8 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3770 times:

how likely is it that they will begin service to IAH in the next 5 years?

Under the current bilateral, neither IAH nor DFW are authorized gateways for Indian carriers to the US, so unless that is renegotiated the likelihood of either IAH or DFW service is nil.

AI's priorities for North American expansion right now are LAX, SFO and YYZ in that order.


User currently offlineUALAX From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 145 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (10 years 8 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3741 times:

B747-437B,

How do the bookings look so far for Los Angeles? Do you know if there will be anything special for the first flight out of LA? Can't wait to see AI at Tom Bradley.

Regards,

UALAX


User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (10 years 8 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3725 times:

How do the bookings look so far for Los Angeles?

Strong, but not expected to be totally full for the first few weeks.

Do you know if there will be anything special for the first flight out of LA?

Double FF miles for all passengers on the route until August 15.


User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (10 years 8 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3621 times:

how likely is it that they will begin service to IAH in the next 5 years?

I think B747-437B has given an accurate answer on this. The priorities (also due to the bilateral) are different. Still, after the aircraft deal passes, it could always happen in "a short notice" that AI applies and gets IAH or DFW. The "five year" period you give seems realistic, but I have no idea whether they would like to start IAH or DFW as priority. Definitely, first SFO and YYZ will start, and I could even imagine IAD being over IAH, but I am not sure. I wouldn't be surprised that once more aircraft are available (new) destinations quickly appear... I think we will know more after the aircrafts are ordered, since the management then will start to work out new strategies and plans. We will hear new rumors and insider info then!


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
No More Regular Check-in At Air Canada In YUL posted Fri Apr 29 2005 16:44:15 by YUL2010
Why Not More US Carriers In India? posted Thu Dec 2 2004 20:10:21 by Jacobin777
Why No More US Express "Shuttle America" In Phl? posted Sun Oct 27 2002 05:17:22 by Usairways85
El Al:why No More 777s And 744s To CDG? posted Tue Oct 3 2006 15:56:51 by LY777
Why No More Tu-154 Freighter Conversions? posted Thu Sep 21 2006 20:54:56 by A342
LAN Airlines: Why No Pics At Heathrow In Database posted Sun Sep 10 2006 12:28:18 by BA787
Why No More Large Twin-jets? posted Thu Aug 10 2006 11:24:57 by TopJet001
No More Maho Beach In The Next Months? posted Sun Apr 16 2006 01:25:04 by Aircanada333
Why No More Lowcost Turboprops? posted Tue Jan 3 2006 20:34:17 by Airevents
HP Ship 315-why No Overhead Air Vents? posted Sat Dec 31 2005 07:56:58 by KELPkid