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TED To PHL Unconfirmed  
User currently offlineUALPHLCS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 2677 times:

Today the big rumor running around PHL was that Ted is coming to PHL. And not the routes you might think.

The substance is that Ted is to fly out of D2 and D4. US employees apparently seem to think that UA is getting those gates as well. In addition a ramp supervisor said an airport employee asked him about when UA was taking over D2 and 4.

Additonally, Ted will supliment UA's DEN and ORD flights but the really big news is Ted is rumored to be flying PHL-FLL.

Now I can't tell if this is a rumor that has grown a life of its own or if the peices that people have put together mean its true. Anyone from US know about the gate switch? Anybody from UA heard similar rumors aout PHL?

With WN and F9 coming in it makes alot of sense, but don;t want to believe an unverified story.

28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3418 posts, RR: 16
Reply 1, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 2592 times:

It makes little sense for UA to do that route as it would add nothing more than insult to injury on the part of their code-share partner US. I'm strongly voting for the "nothing more than a rumor" on this one...

User currently offlineMSYtristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 2581 times:

TED shoots for leisure-oriented markets, and PHL is anything but that. I wouldn't hold my breath for this one.


Steve/MSY


User currently offlineScottysAir From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 2566 times:

As for PHL-FLL is competition with US, WN & FL and maybe will think make decide to begin nonstop from PHL-FLL on UA. It is good to make more people flying to Florida flight.

User currently offlineAa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3350 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 2460 times:

Against Southwest and AirTran? I don't think so.

AAndrew


User currently offlineLoneStarMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 3861 posts, RR: 34
Reply 5, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2425 times:

Additonally, Ted will supliment UA's DEN and ORD flight

I thought I remembered reading that Ted and UA wouldn't be competing on the same city pairs. Is that not correct?

LoneStarMike

User currently offlineUALPHLCS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 7 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2269 times:

As I said this is unconfirmed. I'm actually trolling for information to try and sort all this out. Story is Ted will have 6 flights out of PHL. FLL is the only one that people seem to agree on.

Today many agents who got this news didn't believe it because they had heard UA was moving down to A West.

This didn't make sense to me because UA is the only airline to lay ground fuel pipe in. That kind of infrastructure just isn't abandoned.

So there are some wild stories floating around. Anyone who can confirm or debunk them is welcome to try.


User currently offlineUALFAson From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 736 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (10 years 7 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2199 times:

I am in no way "in the loop" and this is just my personal opinion, but TED out of PHL doesn't make sense. TED is meant for leisure markets with lots of people on discounted tickets and currently empty first class cabins, as well as the benefit of connecting to mainline flights through UA hubs.

I have to believe there's enough business traffic out of PHL to justify continued mainline UA service. If PHL were to go TED, why not any other city?

And yes, LoneStarMike, I believe you're right...TED and UA will not compete on routes. In some cases when a route first goes TED, both UA and TED aircraft will be used, but only until enough TED planes are brought into service.



"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
User currently offlineTonyBurr From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 1038 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (10 years 7 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2173 times:

I prefer the rumor that UA will move to A-West! That would be GREAT! It is empty during the day. Now how about this for "not even a rumor" but if UA does move to A West this could be part of the "rumor" that UA was buying some of US routes, and since A West is the US international departure area ... Could it POSSIBLY be that UA will start international from PHL? Now let's see how this "not even a rumor" floats!!!!!!!



User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33194 posts, RR: 71
Reply 9, posted (10 years 7 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2174 times:

The only bit of sense I see in this is that TED at PHL is meant to combat Southwest Airlines. US Airways would probably codeshare on these flights, and while US Airways does not take in revenue from codeshare, there are obvious marketing advantages.




a.
User currently offlineTcfc424 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 517 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (10 years 7 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2147 times:

In the greater scheme of things, if this rumor were true, I could see a few reasons for this move by UA/Ted.

1) FLL is definitely a leisure market, and could represent some % of market share if the fares are competitive and service is good.

2) PHL is the newest city added by WN, thus making it vulnerable as a new entrant. If TED is worried about WN affecting its routes, this would make sense, as TED tries to convert customers looking for a cheap fare and good service (not saying WN doesn't offer those).

3) This could be a preemption to upgrade TED flights to mainline UA flights if US fails...i.e. Ted comes in, grabs market share, attacks US, then upgrades from TED to UA on previous US routes when (if) US fails.

PHL is already getting ready to look like a war zone to the bean counters, and if this rumor is true, I would think that the writing is on the wall for US...all those LCC's, and one with loyalty/rewards incentives to be used globally. I would think, IMHO, that this is the best move TED could make right now. We shall see how this all plays out, it will be very interesting for the folks in PHL one way or another.

Mike S. in AUS

Just my .02 pesos


User currently offlineUALPHLCS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (10 years 7 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2137 times:

BTW PHL has always been a big business city for UA. That's why it was one of the Biz One cities. But with WN and F9 coming to town PHL's yeilds will diminsh. Maybe not to the point of BWI's but it will have an impact.

I got to think that UA has to do something. DL was only flying in 737's and 727's not too long ago. FL's impact has made 757's and 767's a daily occurance for DL.

One would reasonably expect that F9 and WN would do the same to UA in DEN and ORD.

On other thing, I too would love a move to A west. Apparently, F9 is suppesed to leave from their and it is used for some domestic routes by US and others. But mostly it would mean that I would work in Tinicum Township and NOT Philadelphia. That means as a Jersey resident I would be exempt from the Philly wage tax and It would be an automatic 4% raise. However, I still see major obstacles to that move. Not the least of which is the ground fuel issue and the number of gates. A West only has 12 or so gates. UA currently operates 7 gates. However, the connection convienience for US and UA passengers would increase dramatically.


User currently offlineTonyBurr From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 1038 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (10 years 7 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2118 times:

UALPHLCS

That is really interesting about A West and the tax. I never thought of that. Tinicum vs Philadelphia wage tax? Question then, the US agents that work in A West are they dedicated there so that the tax issue falls in place? How do they work it ( if you know) about assignments ( check in, gate, USAirways Club) and the tax issue? Fascinating!


User currently offlineUSAFHummer From United States of America, joined May 2000, 10685 posts, RR: 52
Reply 13, posted (10 years 7 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2091 times:

I think the boundary between Philadelphia and Delaware County runs through the walkway connecting A-East to B?

Greg



Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
User currently offlineFreshlove1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (10 years 7 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2036 times:

It is only compitition with US if it is not a code share flight, otherwise it is actually in US favor if TED puts some flights in PHL. TED or UA is not attacking US, if they were they would not be code sharing.

User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26022 posts, RR: 50
Reply 15, posted (10 years 7 months 6 days ago) and read 2010 times:

There will be more growth announced for TED in the near future. The initials plans were for a 45 aircraft fleet. The IAD flying just begun recently and the ORD flying is around the corner next month.

However please keep the following in mind before getting too excited that TED might start flying to PHL.

1 - TED is geared for Leisure markets. Initially to replace mainline on routes that were low yield.
2 - TED will not operate any route at the same time as mainline, so thus you can forget PHL-ORD and PHL-DEN becoming TED unless if UA totaly gives up on the premium business traffic ex PHL.

Another little tidbit however is to remember is that TED in the future can launch point to point service and connect cities not currently served by mainline. From reading a past Q&A regarding TED, while its initial growth has been from hub cities, there is no reason why future growth cannot be on routes overflying hubs. So a PHL-LAS for instance could be an option.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineUA744Flagship From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (10 years 7 months 6 days ago) and read 2003 times:

The rumor going around is that United will convert its deferred A319/A320 orders into A321 aircraft for the mainline (and have all 43 examples delivered by the end of 2005), while more A320s are converted to Ted.

Net result... 319s/321s become mainline staples, 320 = Ted.

Again, rumor only. But then again, who was right about the new paint scheme despite throngs of doubters? Big grin


User currently offlineUALFAson From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 736 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (10 years 7 months 6 days ago) and read 1981 times:

TonyBurr, you are a bad, bad man!! Suggesting UA int'l service out of PHL...  Smile

I can see the threads now...Wait, it's the whole "B6 is coming to SAT/DFW/insert-favorite-city-here!!!!!" game all over again.

Oh, BTW, did I forget to mention I heard that NW is retiring their DC-9s??  Laugh out loud



"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
User currently offlineUsairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3463 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (10 years 7 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1963 times:

I think the rumor that UA will move to A-west is a rumor at best. US has about 12 gates in the terminal and has to operate on average 10 daily flts from Europe and probably around 10-12 Caribbean flts on weekdays and 20-23 on weekends. I dont see how UA can fit into the terminal while US still operates its flts from there. Unless UA plans to operate internationally from PHL, but i still think that's a ways off.

User currently offlineFLY777UAL From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4512 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (10 years 7 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1935 times:

A321's, huh? That's pretty interesting...would definitely be fun to see!

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L


User currently offlinePHLapproach From Philippines, joined Mar 2004, 1246 posts, RR: 18
Reply 20, posted (10 years 7 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1903 times:

I'm assuming none of you have seen Paul Kanagie's new pic of TED at PHL! That would be nice if they started PHL - FLL service, it would be my first time on TED. I do have a feeling that United will still be operating codeshare with US to FLL and will not be separating service. Seams like ALOT of UA rumors floating around.

User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7554 posts, RR: 23
Reply 21, posted (10 years 7 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1874 times:

I think the boundary between Philadelphia and Delaware County runs through the walkway connecting A-East to B?

I hate to break the news to you all, but if you work ANYWHERE in the airport terminal buildings even if it's on the Tinicum Township side, it IS considered working in the City of Philadelphia, and hence, subject to the city wage tax.

Want proof? Just ask any City of Philadelphia Division Of Aviation employee whose office base is situated at the International (old Scott) Plaza located near Cargo City (west of the terminals and in Tinicum Township); they will be the FIRST to tell you that they're subject to the Philly wage tax.

With regards to TED coming to PHL is concerned, could somebody please STATE THE SOURCE of information. To date there has not been ONE news article talking about this. The only news articles about PHL I've seen have been US' woes and WN coming to PHL. Yesterday's Business section of the Philly Inquirer devoted 2 pages about WN and how they run their business.


[Edited 2004-04-26 14:05:50]


"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineUALPHLCS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (10 years 7 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1817 times:

PHLBOS, anyone who resides in PHL pays the wage tax, so if they live in Philly and work in Tinicum or Timbuctu Philly takes a big wet bite out of thier paycheck. If you live outside of Philly and work in Philly same thing. But for us non Philly residents Working on the Tinicum part of the airport is Tax Free. Anyone from A to A west to Cargo City, and the UPS terminal across the way are exempt. I know I used to work for UPS on Hog Island Rd. The building is yards away from the county line to take advantage of that. Additionally all of our Airfrieght people are non City wage tax. When they contracted out air frieght in PHL and the agents moved over to D, you should have heard them howl over the loss in wages.

TonyBurr to answer your question, US has full bidding on those slots. So agents bid to be International or A terminal for the tax benefit. As I said Philly residents have to pay becasue they live in Philly, so the bidder for that live in Jersey or the surrounding Counties.

It's a messed up situation, but then if it wasn't it wouldn't be Philadelphia.


User currently offlineTonyBurr From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 1038 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (10 years 7 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1770 times:

UALPHLCS

Thanks for that information. It is crazy! Very interesting.


User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7554 posts, RR: 23
Reply 24, posted (10 years 7 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1760 times:

But for us non Philly residents Working on the Tinicum part of the airport is Tax Free. Anyone from A to A west to Cargo City, and the UPS terminal across the way are exempt.

To clarify my earlier statement. ANY tenant business that is located INSIDE the terminals (whose landlord is the City of Philadelphia DOA) is considered working in Philadelphia. All wage tax rules for NON-city residents apply here. If it didn't, all the business stands/shops/etc. would only be at Terminal A (West & East). ALL the parking garages adjacent to the airport are run by the Philadelphia Parking Authority (PPA), and are also, subject to Philadelphia location tax rules, etc.

If I'm not mistaken, UPS' airport headquarters at Hog Island Road is actually UPS-owned property is NOT part of the Division of Aviation, and hence not subject to the City of Philadelphia tax rules charters, etc.

Businesses located in International Plaza (except the DOA offices) are considered to be (and rightly so) Tinicum Township. As far as the Cargo City businesses are concerned, it depends on WHO actually owns the buildings. If the business' landlords are the DOA, then it's considered to be a Philadelphia. If the landlord is anyone else, then local (Tinicum) tax laws apply.

All this is another reason why Tinicum Township is not too thrilled everytime the airport expands westward. The terminal buildings on the Tinicum side produce ZERO tax revenue for the township; it all goes to the City of Philadelphia.

One proof of my earlier statement would be how many ATA employees that work at PHL saw a change in deductions on their paycheck when they moved from Terminal E to A-East?

[Edited 2004-04-26 16:12:57]


"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
25 UALPHLCS : IF we have any TZ employees in PHL we can ask them. But I know what the UA Air frieght people experienced and I know what I hear from US employees who
26 Haveric : What has been posted is correct -- all business within the terminal buildings is considered to be in Philadelphia for tax purposes. Additionally, the
27 PHLBOS : But I know what the UA Air freight people experienced and I know what I hear from US employees who work south of the county line. UALPHLCS, Not to bea
28 UALPHLCS : Point taken. It is a major dissapointment for alot of people.
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