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Air Canada Now Sueing Westjet For More?  
User currently offlineDash8King From Canada, joined Nov 2001, 2742 posts, RR: 11
Posted (10 years 4 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3879 times:

Carrier to seek millions

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By PAUL WALDIE

00:00 EDT Thursday, April 22, 2004


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Air Canada is expected to seek hundreds of millions of dollars in damages from WestJet Airlines Ltd. in a lawsuit over allegations involving stolen computer files, sources said.

"We are not talking peanuts here, we are talking big money," a source close to the airline said.

Another source said he had heard that Montreal-based Air Canada will be seeking damages in the range of $400-million.

The airline is suing WestJet and two of its officials in Ontario over allegations they illegally accessed an employee website to obtain confidential information about flights on Air Canada and its subsidiary Zip.

Calgary-based WestJet has not responded to the allegations but it has put the employees, including a company co-founder, on paid leave of absence while it investigates. None of the allegations have been proven in court.

Air Canada did not specify damages when it filed the lawsuit on April 6, but it said it would be seeking compensation for "loss of revenue and profits." The airline has alleged that WestJet used the information to triple its market share in the past three years.

A source said Air Canada has hired a team of experts to calculate the damages. "Air Canada will say that you don't look at its profits to determine what it lost, you look at the incremental revenue it lost," the source said. Revenue allegedly earned by WestJet as a result of the information will also be part of the overall damage calculation, the source added.

© The Globe and Mail


I think 5 million is fair but 400 million? There is no way Wesjet profited that much from this scam.





16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineFrmyqr From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 143 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (10 years 4 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3761 times:

I'm sure 400M was a number that came to be for a good reason. If the judge seeing the case thinks that is too much money to cover damages then he would adjust that amount.


i'm from regina. Heard of it?
User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (10 years 4 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3698 times:

HAHA that would make Westjet Air Canada's biggest investor  Big grin


"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineGreasespot From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 3079 posts, RR: 20
Reply 3, posted (10 years 4 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3652 times:

Yeah and if you cannot stop losing money just sue your competition.......Next year aicanada will sue Jetsgo to turn a profit......after that...Canjet.....etc...

No pension problems...no layoffs.....this way...


 Smile/happy/getting dizzy



Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
User currently offlineFlug From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (10 years 4 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3602 times:

If you can't beat them sue them!

User currently offlineDash8King From Canada, joined Nov 2001, 2742 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (10 years 4 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3548 times:

Yeah and if you cannot stop losing money just sue your competition.......Next year aicanada will sue Jetsgo to turn a profit......after that...Canjet.....etc...

Well they have a reason to sue. However this was going on for less then a year so they have not profited that much. I thought 5 million was fair however.


User currently offlineBeechNut From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 725 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (10 years 4 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3530 times:

Well imagine if your employer's biggest competitor managed to log onto your network, and steal confidential business information that gave them a competitive advantage.

I would bet that the CEO would be some p*ssed off! If the allegations are proven true, then AC is entitled to damages. Whether 400m is too much depends on the actual damage done in terms of lost revenue.

If they are false, then there are going to be some very rich lawyers at the end of this.

I wonder why Westjet put the employees in question on leave if the allegations have no merit at all?

Mike
C-GTLM


User currently offlineDash8King From Canada, joined Nov 2001, 2742 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (10 years 4 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3515 times:

Whether 400m is too much depends on the actual damage done in terms of lost revenue.

That is my point, there is no way they lost 400 million in revenue from this.


User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 55
Reply 8, posted (10 years 4 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3488 times:

It is normal to sue for as much as possible, although in reality, if AC wins, they'll get much less than the $400 million, in my opinion. This will be an interesting case to follow.


"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offlineCanadaEH From Canada, joined Jul 2003, 1341 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (10 years 4 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3471 times:

I wonder how hard it's going to be to prove that amount of losses. I mean, lost revenue has been blamed on everything from the downturn in the economy to SARS, so how do you say, in black and white, that we lost $XX amount of money because of Westjet's alledged espionage? This is going to be a bitter fight, that's for sure.


EH.
User currently offlineAirbus Lover From Malaysia, joined Apr 2000, 3248 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (10 years 4 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3429 times:

"That is my point, there is no way they lost 400 million in revenue from this."

-How would you know?

" This is going to be a bitter fight, that's for sure."

-Yeah I think so too. Whether it is $5 mil or $400 mil it is up to the judge to decide. I am sure they will able to 'negotiate' and definitely end up less that $400 mil. If anything this does sound like big shit for Westjet this time around though.


User currently offlineDash8King From Canada, joined Nov 2001, 2742 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3344 times:

That is my point, there is no way they lost 400 million in revenue from this."

-How would you know?


Westjets total revenue went up less then 400 million for the year. In fact it went up 200 million. However many of the routes added were planned before this espionage and they added many frequencies. However looking at that I would say they deserve more then 5 million.


User currently offlineSkywatcher From Canada, joined Sep 2002, 458 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3321 times:

If you've ever gone through a divorce you'd realize that outrageously inflated claims are standard bargaining tactics.

User currently offlineLymanm From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 1138 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3222 times:

"Westjets total revenue went up less then 400 million for the year. In fact it went up 200 million. However many of the routes added were planned before this espionage and they added many frequencies. However looking at that I would say they deserve more then 5 million."

The figure does not derive from WJ revenue, but potentially lost AC revenue. The fact that WJ's total revenue did not equal 400 million is irrelevent.



buhh bye
User currently offlineAirbus Lover From Malaysia, joined Apr 2000, 3248 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3208 times:

I second Lymanm.

It is really hard to calculate loss. I mean WJ could be changing their schedules according to the information they received from AC etc etc...

And AC's loss of revenue may not necessarily equate WJ's rise.


User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 15, posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3140 times:

Also, the amount that AC sues for most likely includes something for the fact that, by this espionage, WJ essentially had no (or a lot lower) risk while opening new routes: opening new routes is always a risk, some new routes make it, some don't - yes, an airline does market research, but there's always a margin of error in that...

... and that margin of error is certainly larger than the one that you'll find in your main competitors passenger numbers.

What WJ did, if in fact they did it, was use AC as a form of insurance, only without paying any premiums - and if AC can prove that WJ did this, then I think they are entitled to way more than 5 million.

Regards,
Frank



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineAstral From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 214 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (10 years 4 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3078 times:

This court case is quite interesting and different.
First - Ask yourself and all those ex-CP and ex-AC employee, is that illegal to access the site ?? The answer is NO. So the first basic issue is - it is legal to take information from the site, and it is not 'stealing'.
Second - How you do determine how many times you access the site is 'wrong' ?? There was no rules, no limit to the number of access an employee can take. So second issue is - it is 'acceptable' regardless the number of access.
Third - Its that illegal for that employee to use the information for his own profitable gain, and profitable gain for a third party (i.e. Westjet). The answer is very likely a 'Yes'. So now we can set a base of winning the case in its basic form.
The court should then determine what to charge. Air Canada must show that they were being 'damaged' by this illegal transfer of data. They must justify the so call 'damages' is the correct amount, and must not based on how much the third party (i.e. Westjet) profitied.
The biggest challenge for AC is to show 'damages'. which actually could review many commerical secrets !! Much worse than lossing the booking data. Interesting to see how far that would go.


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