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Will The 7E7 Help Den With Non-stop Asia Service?  
User currently offlineDiatraveler From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 20 posts, RR: 0
Posted (10 years 6 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5268 times:

Will the 7E7 and especially with All Nippon (Star Alliance) being the launch customer help Den receive non-stop NRT service? I'm tired of having to connect in LAX, SFO or SEA. A non-stop would be nice, especially with customs in Denver.


30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 1, posted (10 years 6 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5225 times:

I would think with the 7E7 ANA would be foolish not to offer Denver service...

United feed could certainly fill a smaller plane.

N


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33051 posts, RR: 71
Reply 2, posted (10 years 6 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5119 times:

I think the 7E7 opens five markets in particular for non-stop Tokyo service: Boston, Denver, Miami, Philadelphia, and Phoenix. And I don't think ANA would have a hard time filling a 7E7 from any of them.


a.
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (10 years 6 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5042 times:

I'm not up on it.... would a 7E7 be allowed to use both NRT runways (if not for takeoffs, then landings, on a permanent basis)??

User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 4, posted (10 years 6 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5014 times:

I don't THINK so, but possibly.

N


User currently offlineQuickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (10 years 6 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4985 times:

A 777 can't make DEN-NRT? Why hasn't UAL tried this?

User currently offlineIowa744fan From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 931 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (10 years 6 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4970 times:

Quickmover,
Well, before the new 16,000 foot runway was built, in I believe that there were considerable weight restrictions to get a 777 off the ground and still have enough fuel for that route. However, with the new runway, I am not sure. I thought that Denver built it to encourage and get those longer and heavier flights to operate into and out of Denver. What is the longest flight out of Denver? Is it still the daily Lufthansa flight to Frankfurt? Do they operate a 744 or 343 on that?


User currently offlineUAMAYBACH1239 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 221 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (10 years 6 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4957 times:

I think that would be a great route also, but when UA gave up LAX-KIX shortly after ANA joined star UA hinted that they would like to make SFO primarily a pac rim hub, and some flts. out of LA.

They wanted Denver to be more of a transfer hub. Even in LH case flying AB) (FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">FRA-DEN only after LH went public on flying direct to DEN, did they give assistance.



a/c flown 737-222/322/522 757/747-1-2-4, 767-2-3, 777-2-3, A319-20, DC10-10-30, L1011-3-5, 727-222adv, MD85-90 flyourfri
User currently offlineQuickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (10 years 6 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4933 times:

"What is the longest flight out of Denver? Is it still the daily Lufthansa flight to Frankfurt? Do they operate a 744 or 343 on that?"

Iowa,
About a week ago, it was a 747.


User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 27
Reply 9, posted (10 years 6 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4823 times:

""What is the longest flight out of Denver? Is it still the daily Lufthansa flight to Frankfurt? Do they operate a 744 or 343 on that?"

It was an A342 somedays, but mostly an A343. Now it is a 744.


7E7 should open up several new markets to Tokyo. . .especially DEN.



Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 10, posted (10 years 6 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4730 times:

Its not so much that a 777 can't make it, it can.

Its more that there's insufficient traffic.

N


User currently offlineRjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (10 years 6 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4652 times:

Is there a large market between Denver and Tokyo....?

User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 12, posted (10 years 6 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4628 times:

There isn't a large market, but there is a market.

That's why a 7E7 could easily open the route.

DEN is UA's second strongest hub in terms of feed, and a large and bustling high-tech center.

Perhaps not enough for a 777, but probably for a 7E7.

N


User currently offlineSean-SAN- From United States of America, joined Aug 2002, 770 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (10 years 6 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4599 times:

Hopefully it will also make SAN-LHR profitable again.

User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 984 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (10 years 6 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4585 times:

There isn't a large market, but there is a market.
Perhaps not enough for a 777, but probably for a 7E7.


I agree. Given the fact that a 7E7-800 seats 200 pax (3 class) whereas the 772ER seats 300 pax (3 class), it would be much easier to sustain the route with a 7E7. This may be true of many trans-pac city pairs.

Other routes the 7E7 could open up from DEN-



(distance nm) (time hh:mm)
DEN-NRT (5029 nm) (8:54)
DEN-HKG (6505 nm) (11:36)
DEN-SIN (7881 nm) (14:04)
DEN-SYD (7254 nm) (12:57)
DEN-KUL (7872 nm) (14:03)

These are obviously hypothetical, but it does show you the versatility of the 7E7

Regards,
DFW

[Edited 2004-04-28 00:27:38]

User currently offlineTerminalc From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 174 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (10 years 6 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4487 times:

The 7E7 is going to do what airplanes should do: carry to people to where they want to go from where they want to leave. I personally cannot wait. I'm tired of hopscotching all over the Pacific Rim going through hubs that I care nothing about.

User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 16, posted (10 years 6 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4427 times:

DEN-SIN (7881 nm) (14:04)

Not sure where you got this number, but this is like a 20 hour flight.

N


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (10 years 6 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4383 times:

He's just using the GCM to calculate flight time based on groundspeed.... instead of still-air like it should be.  Smile

User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 984 posts, RR: 51
Reply 18, posted (10 years 6 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4353 times:

He's just using the GCM to calculate flight time based on groundspeed.... instead of still-air like it should be.

Yeah stupid move, you learn something new everyday  Smile.


User currently offlineATLhomeCMH From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 770 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (10 years 6 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4297 times:

Yes, it will most definitely help DEN...according to an article in today's USA Today Money section...

http://www.usatoday.com/money/biztravel/2004-04-26-boeing_x.htm

and I quote, Believing that airlines will purchase 3,000 midsize jets in the next 20 years, Boeing designed the 200-seat 7E7 as a low-maintenance, fuel-sipping workhorse. Its optimal mission: opening long-distance routes between less-traveled destinations, such as St. Louis to South Korea.

The larger interior airports of the United States (SLC, DEN, STL, DFW, ORD, etc) will be greatly served by such a flawlessly designed aircraft.




"The most terrifying words in the Engligh language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"-Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8018 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4137 times:

From what I've read, the 7E7-8 (which I believe NH has ordered) will have a range over 8,000 nautical miles. That is far more than enough for NH to fly from NRT and KIX to DEN easily in both directions non-stop.

User currently offlinePhollingsworth From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 825 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4101 times:

Based upon my quick calculations. The 16,000 ft runway increases the maximum takeoff weight for a 772ER on a +27 degree day by ~20,000 pounds.
http://www.boeing.com/assocproducts/aircompat/777.htm
Note, the full 16,000 ft is useless as the aircraft becomes tire-speed limited (you cannot interpolate Boeing's charts so you need to use 6,000 ft.). This translates into ~15-20,000 lb payload increase, not insubstantial. Given UAL's current seat count, there would be little restriction in the number of passengers carried with the 12K ft runway, but no extra cargo. The 16K ft runway allows ~20,000 lbs of cargo to be added.

The 7E7 will probably be similarly restricted.


User currently offlineORDagent From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 823 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4073 times:

I doubt that DEN will see pacific rim flights for quite some time. UA/Star Alliance et al are happy feeding traffic through LAX or SFO and will for quite some time as they will want to fill those A380s. I know all you Denverites are dyeing for more intl long haul service! DEN is a great airport with the capacity and infrastructure for such service. I just think time will tell particularly how low the load factor can be to make the 7e7 (hope they call it the 808!) will be to break even.

User currently offlineRoberta From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4053 times:

If there was a sufficient market DEN-NRT would NH or UA not be flying a 767 on the route

User currently offlineUAMAYBACH1239 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 221 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (10 years 6 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3980 times:

Im sure a direct flt. out of DEN would be decent loads, other things to look at is cargo restrictions, other alliance members flying pac rim passengers to DEN, and last SFO and LAX can fill planes with passengers, freight, and mail
daily with no restrictions.

LAX is prime obviously because of sea level, I think SEA would see more action be DEN.



a/c flown 737-222/322/522 757/747-1-2-4, 767-2-3, 777-2-3, A319-20, DC10-10-30, L1011-3-5, 727-222adv, MD85-90 flyourfri
25 Gigneil : If there was a sufficient market DEN-NRT would NH or UA not be flying a 767 on the route Its a fairly tough trip for a 767 against those winds. The 76
26 Roberta : yeh i forgot DEN was high altitude too
27 SailorOrion : Any aircraft besides the 747 (and maybe 777) can use the shorter runway at NRT. I landed on it with a A340-300 a couple of weeks ago. Pretty nice brak
28 MAH4546 : Many one-stops exist on 777s between DEN and NRT. Many? Ever since United ended the DEN-SEA 777 leg of the SEA-NRT flight last year, there has been no
29 DCAYOW : The Boeing 7E7 is a direct response to how Boeing sees the market evolving the Terminalcalc explained, more direct services to where people want to g
30 Post contains images PW100 : SAN-NRT-with network beyond NRT SAN-Europe hub with network beyond the Europe hub (LHR, AMS, CDG, or F.RA) That's ironically funny. You just described
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