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Cubana Orders A330; DC-10 Replacement  
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40014 posts, RR: 74
Posted (10 years 7 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 8996 times:



http://www.cubana.cu
click on Flota

Sorry if this has already been brought up.

Does anyone know when Cubana gets it's first A330 and or have they got it yet?
Id like to see photos in the database.

Would have been nice to see them get the IL-96 or A340.
There IL-62s have lots of life left in them.


Bring back the Concorde
51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 36
Reply 1, posted (10 years 7 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 8797 times:

The DC-10s, which were on lease from AOM/AirLib, are now in "corrosion corner" at HAV. They fly no more. As for the A330s, I think CU is wet-leasing a couple already. They've done the same with A320s from TACA.


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Photo © José Ramón Valero - IBERIAN SPOTTERS



The Il-62s do have life left, that's for sure. But, to the best of my knowledge, there are only 3 or 4 still in service. The rest have been wfu or cannibalised, while the last Tu-154 was retired at least 3 years ago. Something tells me the logistics of maintaining the ex-Soviet fleet are getting tougher and tougher, and that CU is becoming desperate to acquire newer Western aircraft. If the Il-96 wasn't produced so slowly, it would be a worthwhile investment, but the way things stand, it's not. Expect to see A320s, A330s and MAYBE A340s joining CU in the not too distant future...

XV




How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlineScottysAir From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 7 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 8794 times:

Yeah, I did not know about Cubana was make orders with A330 aircraft. Which one will used with their -200 or 300? Can you find out about them.

User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 3, posted (10 years 7 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 8752 times:

How did this order go through? What about the embargo the US has on Cuba preventing them from buying US products or products that contain US parts?

Airbus aircraft do contain American parts.

I know they were seriously looking at the IL-96 because of the embargo.

So what exactly changed?

Regardless, the livery looks excellent on the A330.

Regards



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12800 posts, RR: 46
Reply 4, posted (10 years 7 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 8735 times:
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I don't think Cubana has ordered A330s. They are currently leasing two from NovAir:
SE-RBF A330-223 c/n 353
SE-RBG A330-223 c/n 362
Sadly, neither of these planes are operated in Cubana's colours.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana! #44cHAMpion
User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 36
Reply 5, posted (10 years 7 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 8683 times:

ScottysAir:

-200s, I believe.

BA:

Whatever US-manufactured parts Airbuses contain, the Libyans and Iranians have either done-away with them or used some good ol' lateral thinking (probably the latter!). In the case of the DC-10s, (US-built, of course), I doubt the French had any qualms (or problems) with throwing some spares into the deal (on the orders of Jospin...), and CU first operated an Irish-registered A320 (from TransAer) in 1999.
Would you know exactly what parts the US manufactures for Airbus, BTW? If you're talking engines, those don't need to come from the manufacturer...

XV




How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 6, posted (10 years 7 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 8600 times:

Would you know exactly what parts the US manufactures for Airbus, BTW?

Honeywell is a very large avionics manufacturer for airliners. Rockwell is another big one.

There are other components also made by US manufacturers but I don't know any other specifics.

I know that Airbus aircraft contain more American parts than many people realize.

That's why I always laugh when Airbus vs. Boeing arguments erupt and you have users saying "Airbus are made of cheap European plasticy stuff."  Smile

Regards



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 36
Reply 7, posted (10 years 7 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8542 times:

Whatever the case, embargoes are never watertight...  Big grin

XV




How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlineSxmarbury33 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 445 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (10 years 7 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8515 times:

This just came to me couldnt an airline like bahamas air or something buy the A330's and then once delivered sell them to Cubana? wouldnt that be a simple way to avoid the embargo.

User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 36
Reply 9, posted (10 years 7 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8461 times:

Simpler still, just keep them off the CU-registry. That's the only way they've operated western types in the past!

XV




How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 10, posted (10 years 7 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8460 times:

This just came to me couldnt an airline like bahamas air or something buy the A330's and then once delivered sell them to Cubana? wouldnt that be a simple way to avoid the embargo.

This is technically illegal and if Bahamas Air did this and the Bahamian government let them go through with the transaction, the Bahamian government would be in big trouble.

It's basically the same idea as during the Cold War, you sell American technology to the Soviet, you are a traitor.  Smile

Anyways, you still have the issue of spare parts as well. Once the US finds out that Bahamas Air sold the A330s to Cuba, the US will block any attempt for Bahamas Air to acquire spare parts for the aircraft because they know they would be going to Cuba.

Regards



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineAguilo From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 243 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (10 years 7 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8384 times:

Cubana de Aviacion probably got around the embargo by leasing the planes. The embargo prevents the sale of US products to Cuba but in a lease, the product is still owned by some other "non-Cuban" entity.

Whay I really wonder about is where did they get that late model Ford F Series truck that they are using as a Ground Support Vehicle as shown in the bottom right hand of the picure!?!?


User currently offlineRussophile From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (10 years 7 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 8303 times:

Superfly, they already do have Il-96-300s  Big grin

http://www.aviatsiya.ru/forums/image.php?iid=66

And they are on order.


User currently offlineMotorhussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3283 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (10 years 7 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 8118 times:

Russophile

That pic is laughably "photoshopped" and while it looks great, it certainly in no way looks authentic.

In mirth
MH




come visit the south pacific
User currently offlineViscount From Gibraltar, joined Dec 1999, 112 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (10 years 7 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 7950 times:

Cubana lease their A330s from Novair and I do believe that they have IL96-300s on order.

User currently offlineStefandotde From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (10 years 7 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7773 times:

Cuba-embargo from Europe? Never heared about it. Also no travel restrictions from European countries. So why should Cubana buy the 330 via Bahamasair?

User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 16, posted (10 years 7 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7742 times:

Stefan, the amount of US parts in A330s prevents it's sale to Cuba, Iran and other countries that the US has an embargo against - so the fact that there is no trade embargo from Europe to Cuba doesn't change the fact that Airbus cannot legally sell A330s (with or without engines, the problem remains) to Cubana (and neither could Bahamasair - legally, that is - just to keep that example alive).



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineChepos From Puerto Rico, joined Dec 2000, 6229 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (10 years 7 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7709 times:

Something similar happened with Iran Air
They ordered some A330's, the U.S. government prohibited the aircraft to be delivered and the Iranians were left without A330's. What has heppened to the Iran Air A330 orders?
It's a pity those A330-200's aren't in Cubana colors- that would be a sight.

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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ariel Shocron

- A pic of a Novair A330 coming into MAD from HAV operating for Cubana.
I believe Blue Panorama (Italy) opearated 767 flights for Cubana from Italy to Cuba.
Chepols



Fly the Flag!!!!
User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 857 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (10 years 7 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7514 times:

Of course Cuba will order a/c from €urope! Nooway in hell they buy anything from the "capitalistic USA" as long Castro is the dictator.....whatta pitty!
Superfly: Great c/s of Cubana Big grin

Michael//SE



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 857 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (10 years 7 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 7471 times:

BTW, Novair want the 330´s back for the summercharter flights, its extremely cheap now to Canay Island / Mallorca / Cyprus etc. etc. etc.
*Have a great summer*

Michael//SE  Big thumbs up



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlineJAL From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 5092 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (10 years 7 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 7455 times:

I didn't even know that Cubana ordered the A330.


Work Hard But Play Harder
User currently offlineGreg From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (10 years 7 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 7423 times:

The monetary equivalent of US made/manufactured/provided parts is such that for every widebody Airbus sold...is the equivalent of Boeing selling a single 717. Source is Airbus.

So, I guess the US content is fairly significant. Although I wonder about the statement since so much of the 717 itself is made in Korea, etc.....


User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12800 posts, RR: 46
Reply 22, posted (10 years 7 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7169 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

JAL, see reply 4!  Smile


Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana! #44cHAMpion
User currently offlineCx340 From Mexico, joined Sep 2000, 609 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (10 years 7 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7023 times:

Could anyone tell me where in the documents that compose the legal foundation for the Cuban Embrago is it stated that US goods cannot be sold to Cuban individuals, companies or entities?

I am not an expert on the matter, but from what I can remember, the CUban embargo documents prohibit (i) US individuals or companies, and (ii) foreign subsidiaries of US companies or individualls outside the US, to perform unauthorized commercial transactions with Cuban entities, individuals or foreign companies controlled by Cuba, and also foreign companies to perform, in general terms, commercial transactions with assets located in Cuba that were effectively seized from their original US owners by Castro and his government (Helms-Burton Act).

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but Airbus does not fall in any of the above categories. Therefore, and even if an A330 was made entirely of US parts, and unless there is a specific rule preventing non US controlled foreign companies to sell products made in the US (but purchased by the foreign company, i.e Airbus, and therefore no more US property) that I'm unaware of, there is no legal prohibition, wether enacted considering applicable international law or not (I'm not even going to go there), that prevent Airbus from selling in full any of its products to Cuba.

Before anyone starts bashing me, I'm not pro Castro or anything like it. I'm just trying to state an unbiased opinion, and as I mentioned before I might be wrong since I don't have full knowledge of the terms of the Cuban embargo.



User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40014 posts, RR: 74
Reply 24, posted (10 years 7 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6727 times:

Good replys folks but a few thinks aren't adding up.

1. Even then IL-96 has some western parts in it as well, right?

2. Cubana operated the DC-10, so where did they get there parts from for the DC-10s as well as the DC-8s they used to operate?

3. If they can lease an A330, can't they also lease a 747 or 777?

4. What percentage of US/non-US parts does this stupid embargo apply?





Bring back the Concorde
25 Post contains images Superfly : Wasn't there some Cubana DC-10s in the database at one time? How soon will Cubana get the IL-96? One would think, since Russia is no longer Communist
26 Post contains images LVZXV : Superfly: Cubana DC-10s? See Reply 1. As for spares, well they were French-operated and the PM at the time was Lionel Jospin...no problems there. Russ
27 Post contains images Superfly : LVZXV: Not knocking Russia at all. Look at my favorite jets in my profile. I've even broke the law to visit Cuba and fly on an IL-62. I guess my comme
28 Post contains images Airliner777 : Superfly: Thank you for bringing the subject into the matter. Cubana only has four IL-62Ms left in operation. CUT1280 CUT1282 CUT1283 CUT1284 The rest
29 Post contains images LVZXV : Look, I think we have to see those IL-96s before we can believe them. Russia's not exactly churning them out like hot-cakes for the time being, and on
30 Miamix707 : Whay I really wonder about is where did they get that late model Ford F Series truck that they are using as a Ground Support Vehicle as shown in the b
31 Post contains links and images Miamix707 : Small note: the third DC-10 from left to right (F-GHOI) is now "in exile" in the Opa Locka airport in Miami being broken up. View Large View MediumPho
32 Post contains images Airliner777 : CU IL-62s From HAV to: MDZ, MEX, MVD, SCL, SDQ, BOG, EZE, CUN, CCS, COR, GRU, LPA From VRA to: CCS From CYO to: EZE From CMW to: EZE From HOG to: EZE
33 Post contains images Miamix707 : Hola Adel The only destination i've seen the IL-62 used more regularly is SDQ. I think Lima and Bogota get it once a week now. Others like MEX don't g
34 Post contains images Airliner777 : That's right Mario, Cubana doens't want to risk crossing their IL-62Ms accross the pond anymore! Oye, I talked to Carlos, and the other guys there the
35 Superfly : LVZXV: Is there anything Cubana could or would do to get Ilyushin to speed up production of the IL-96? I hate to see them lose out to Boeing and Airbu
36 Russophile : At this stage delivery is set down for 2 Il-96-300, including 1 Il-96-300M for 1Q 2005 -- financing is now in place. Rubtsov says it's all steam ahead
37 Post contains images Superfly : That's fantastic! That means Cubana will get some new Russian aircraft that is stage III compliant. Therefore when the embargo is lifted (10 years may
38 PanAm747 : Here's my understanding of how Cubana gets around the embargo: The airplanes, while flying under the Cuban flag, are leased to Cubana, with ownership
39 Post contains images Miamix707 : Cuba is broke - so how do they order new aircraft? Since the Soviet Union fell, about the only thing Castro has invested in is tourism. The tourist in
40 Post contains images Iflyatldl : Besides the website, has anybody actually seen a CU DC-10 without TACA titles? I've searched the data base with no luck. Also, CU's website seems to b
41 Miamix707 : Iflyatldl: scroll down in their main page you'll see a British flag, click it. There have never been any DC-10s in Cubana colors, don't go by their we
42 Superfly : Thanks for the information. Keep it coing. I am really learning a lot here about Cubana.Now what about possible orders of TU-334 to replace there Yak-
43 Post contains images A388 : I'm confused. I can't find any news that mentions Cubana leasing its 'own' A330's. In their fleet section (flota), it only says that they currently us
44 Gigneil : Would you know exactly what parts the US manufactures for Airbus, BTW? If you're talking engines, those don't need to come from the manufacturer... A
45 Usdcaguy : ¡Viva la revolución!
46 Ltbewr : It makes sense for Cubana to order Airbus a/c. Most of the tourists to Cuba today are from Europe. There is a long and bitter history between Cuba and
47 Superfly : Ltbewr: Death is a fact of life everyone will face someday. Hoping that an old man dies is redundant dont you think?
48 Post contains images A388 : I was just asking the question whether it's true that Cubana will order/lease A330's by themselves. On their website it says that they use the A330 wh
49 Superfly : I can't wait to see the IL-96 in Cubana livery.
50 Airblue : I believe Blue Panorama (Italy) operated 767 flights for Cubana from Italy to Cuba. Chepos Yes, Blue Panorama has an agreement with Cubana for all the
51 Post contains images Superfly : Airblue: Great, take lots of photos while you are there! So is Cubana no longer sending there IL-62s over the Atlantic? Are the IL-62s only used for S
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