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SAA Cape Verde Refueling Stop  
User currently offlineGlobetrotter From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 174 posts, RR: 0
Posted (10 years 2 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 5756 times:

SAA #209 makes a stop at SID on the route from CPT to ATL. The stop is for one hour--01:55-02:55. What do passengers do during this stop? Are they allowed to exit the plane, or must they remain aboard during the stop? Is there any way to get a Cape Verde passport stamp, or are passengers not technically entering the country? Thanks for your help.

Globetrotter

32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMoolies From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 2 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 5706 times:

At one stage they were allowed of the plane. To my knowledge, they are no longer allowed off the plane.I also dont think it is a stop from cpt to atl. it is from jnb-atl.

User currently offlineSsides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Reply 2, posted (10 years 2 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 5657 times:

I don't know what they do, but it seems to me that deboarding and then reboarding a 744 would be a huge waste of time.


"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
User currently offlineAirPortugal310 From Palau, joined Apr 2004, 3579 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (10 years 2 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 5636 times:

Somebody was telling me the other day that, at least in the US of A, passengers are not allowed on board an aircraft while it is being re-fueled....

However, I do not think this is the case in the JAA run world because I was on an A340 while it was being refueled...

The theory is of course, if something goes wrong, no one gets hurt. Good theory!



I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2992 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (10 years 2 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 5558 times:

In January of 2002 I was not allowed off the plane during the stop at SID en route from JNB to JFK. I'm not normally one to bitch about the minor inconveniences of travel, but to be honest, it was fairly unpleasant. It was the middle of the night, halfway through a long and bumpy flight, so everyone was somewhat groggy and annoyed at having been woken up. Plus, we had already been delayed significantly leaving JNB due to the frisking of every single passenger prior to boarding. I had been looking forward to stretching my legs a bit during the stop, but we had to remain seated--not only that, we had to put all our carry-on luggage on our laps so they could do a security check of the overhead bins because 1 or 2 people had gotten off the plane at Sal. And finally, the stop ended up taking quite a bit longer than the scheduled hour, adding further to our delay. Not a fun way to end an otherwise fantastic vacation in South Africa.


Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 2 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 5531 times:

In 1997, passengers were allowed to get off the plane as the following picture shows:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Christopher Sundseth



Here are two pictures from the year 2002, seems that all passengers have to stay in their seats nowadays:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Julian Whitelaw
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Julian Whitelaw



Patrick


User currently offlineJtamu97 From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 658 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (10 years 2 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 5488 times:

I was on the flight in July of 2002 and we were not allowed to deplane. It was one of the worst experiences I have had on an airplane. It was about 1 am and when we landed we had to remain standing instead of sitting and have all of our baggage in our seats. Plus, it was hot as they left some of the doors open for trash, and the security guys to get on. I was in Business class and talked to the new crew as they were arriving and one of the pilots put his bag in an overhead bag. WELL, the security guys had no clue about this bag. We were delayed another 30 minutes because they had to bring the pilot down, who was pissed to verify this was his bag. The bad thing was he had the standard black hardcase with stickers all over it and the SAA crew tag. So if you are taking this flight just be prepared for an hour of Chaos.

Later.



Propeller, we don't need no stinkin propeller
User currently offlineJtamu97 From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 658 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (10 years 2 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 5470 times:

Oh, did not prrof read....He put his bad in the overhead bin..Sorry


Propeller, we don't need no stinkin propeller
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 2 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 5457 times:

I flew JNB-SID-JFK in '92 (I think it was), and you were allowed to get off at SID - not much to do, crappy little airport, and at 2am what little there was was shut. There was a TAAG IL62 parked just behind us, in from Havana.

There was a story that at one time during the Namibian independence "struggle", the SAA flight JNB-WDH-SID-AB) (FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">FRA and the Cubana flight HAV-SID-LAD would arrive in SID at approximately the same time, and that an arrangement had to be made that only the pax of the flight that arrived first would be permitted to disembark, because fights had erupted in the past between white Namibian farmers headed to Frankfurt and Cuban soldiers heading to Angola to support the SWAPO guerillas - I don't know how true this is, but its a good story.


User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2992 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (10 years 2 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 5449 times:

Sabena332, I'm pretty sure the change was a direct result of 9/11. Unfortunately I don't think SID has the facilities to perform the required security checks for two full 747s at the same time.


Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2992 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (10 years 2 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 5412 times:

Jtamu97, LOL, sounds like your experience was similar! But if you thought it was bad in business class, just imagine what a mess it was back in economy...

In any event, I travel a lot, but that flight stands out in my mind as one of the worst. I hope things improve now with the stop in Dakar instead of Sal, but I'm not terribly optimistic.



Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (10 years 2 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 5402 times:

By the way, I just saw in Amadeus that some things changed: The JNB-CPT-SID-ATL flight is now operated by an Airbus A 340-600 (return flight without a stop in SID) and the JNB-JFK flight makes a stop in DKR nowadays (return flight nonstop, operated by an Airbus A 340-300).

Jtamu97: Please use the "Edit post" function next time.

Patrick


User currently offlineJtamu97 From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 658 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (10 years 2 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 5376 times:

Patrick, will do, I was looking for something like that. I thought I had heard that the stop in SID form CPT had been taken away. Wow, I bet that is nice because every second counts on that flight back.

Later.



Propeller, we don't need no stinkin propeller
User currently offlineAndz From South Africa, joined Feb 2004, 8442 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (10 years 2 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5242 times:
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I flew JNB-JFK in 2000 and JNB-ATL in 2001 and we got off both times, there was no movement till they mentioned that the terminal is a smoking area then there was a stampede to get off!


After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
User currently offlineCitationJet From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2422 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (10 years 2 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5213 times:

In Dec 2002, we were NOT allowed off the plane at SID.
As for refueling with pax on board, it is allowed in US and Europe. There are conditions such as cabin crew must be on board, the seat belt sign must be off (to allow quick exit), and no ground equipment at the door openings.



Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
User currently offlinePA110 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1996 posts, RR: 24
Reply 15, posted (10 years 2 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5130 times:
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Attn All... I've flown this route many times over the years on SA, E8 and WO Here's the scoop... SID airport does not have a transit lounge. They have a tacky little departure lounge, which doubles as a transit lounge as long as there are no other active flight operations at the same time. Occasionally, several airlines happen to transit SID roughly around the same time on certain days (most notably SU). The rule of thumb is: Whoever lands first, gets to use the lounge. Passengers from all other subsequent flights must remain on board.


It's been swell, but the swelling has gone down.
User currently offlineAF022 From France, joined Dec 2003, 2147 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (10 years 2 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5093 times:

i have flown SID-SA - New York">JFK a few times on SA, and the JNB-SA - New York">JFK passengers do not get off. in fact, most of them are sound asleep. once i was the only passenger in business boarding at SID and the FA had to do a little song-and-dance safety demonstration for me.

many airlines refuel with pax onboard. i'm sure that KE's flights SA - New York">JFK-ICN via SA - Alaska">ANC and ET's flight SA - New Jersey">EWR-FCO-ADD do not involve deplaning passengers at the refueling stop.


User currently offlineAviationwiz From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 962 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (10 years 2 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5013 times:

Lets see here:

First time I did JNB-SID-JFK in 2002, no problems at all, they just refuel the plane, no one gets on or off, & they run through a quick security check of the carry-on to make sure there are no un-needed carry on bags that could contain weapons, this is done jointly by SAA Security & the Sal authorities. Now with the stop being in Dakar, it is being done jointly by SAA security & Senegal authrorities.

Second time was in 2003, JNB-DKR-JFK, same security check, except this time, passengers got off at Dakar and got on from Dakar to go onto New York.

Both stops were about an hour as planned.

As far as delays because they had to frisk everyone in JNB, this is normal procedure done by SAA & ACSA (Airports Company South Africa) for flights to the US, they hand check all luggage (carry-on & checked) and they search each person. Searching checked luggage was also the norm before the US started requiring it. The flight may have been delayed because of people coming to the airport late, or staying in the bar too long & didn't realize that there was security to go through.

SAA & ACSA offers the best air security I have ever seen, hands down. I have not seen El Al, but as far as I know, El Al's number one, and SAA/ACSA may as well be second.



Proudly from the Home of the Red Tail.
User currently offlineWarren747sp From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1150 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (10 years 2 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 4982 times:

It is also a non-stop by 747-400 equipment from JFK-JNB. Only need to refuel on the return which is the same as A340-600.
But the refueling experience is a miserable one for all as you are not allowed off the plane and it is very early in the morning.



747SP
User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Reply 19, posted (10 years 2 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 4965 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Currently SA211 (JNB-ATL) and SA209 (JNB-CPT-ATL) have stopovers in SID.

I went out on SA209 in December 2003, from JNB. We refueled in CPT, where the bulk of the passengers also got on. Passengers that boarded in JNB, were not allowed to get off the plane, even in CPT.

Onwards to SID for a fuel-stop. We were not allowed to get off, due to security issues. During this period on the ground, all passengers had to be "reconciled" with their handluggage, otherwise it would be removed from the cabin by security guards.

It's not very pleasant do deal with "luggage issues" in the middle of the night, especially when there are a lot of cranky people around. However, I would sincerely not classify SA209 as my worst flight. Actually I enjoyed it very much...



When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6299 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (10 years 2 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 4957 times:

I flew JNB - JFK in 1999 and was able to get off in Cape Verde. Not too much there in the middle of the night but...it was neat to see a country most other Americans haven't even heard of!

User currently offlineFlyer732 From Namibia, joined Nov 1999, 1362 posts, RR: 22
Reply 21, posted (10 years 2 months 4 weeks ago) and read 4815 times:

Everyone keeps saying the stop was horrible, I didn't care one way or another. I woke up when we landed, got my bag and sat there for 30 mins with my bag in my lap. Then loaded it back in the overhead and sat for 15 mins before we left.


And as far as fueling while pax are on board - do it all the time. As long as the cabin door is open and the jetbridge or stairs are on the aircraft it can be done.


User currently offlineAirplanetire From United States of America, joined May 2001, 1809 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4746 times:

I had a friend who flew ATL-SID-CPT (times of the year it was a stop both ways with the 744) and then JNB-SID-ATL last August. Like all of you have said, no one was allowed off of the plane, except for a crew change. She had no complaints though.

-Airplanetire


User currently offlineDiesel33 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 301 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 4670 times:

AF022...

Actually when taking KE to ICN with an intermediate stop in ANC, all passengers must disembark.

I arrived there taking OZ and saw that many airlines made their passengers disembark for the layover in ANC. (i.e. CX from YYZ, OZ from JFK. KE from EWR and JFK, CI from JFK, etc...)

-diesel33


User currently offlineGlobetrotter From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 174 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4532 times:

Thanks for all of your replies. You've been a big help.

Globetrotter


25 Daumueller : just for my understanding: why do they do a security check in SID when nobody gets onboard/offboard?
26 SA7700 : I may be wrong, but I've heard it's due to FAA regulations. Cabin crew do switches on SID.
27 Post contains images FoxBravo : When I took that flight, my understanding was that they had to do the security check because a couple of people had disembarked at Sal. When I and oth
28 Corpsnerd09 : Expedia.com is selling non-stop SID - ATL on SA.[Edited 2004-04-30 22:26:16]
29 Post contains images SpdbrdConcorde : I flew JNB-JFK in 1998 and we stopped at Sal...I almost forgot my jacket in the airport restaurant realising after i had boarded...so just before leav
30 Andz : SAA have traffic rights at SID so passengers do indeed get off or on.
31 Aviationwiz : SAA have traffic rights at SID so passengers do indeed get off or on That's news to me, when did they get traffic rights at SID? EDIT: I always though
32 FoxBravo : I believe they have always had fifth-freedom rights between Cape Verde and the U.S., at least since the current flights started in the early 90s. Even
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