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Germanwings Will "kick Out" EasyJet  
User currently offlineDoorsToManual From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4084 times:

Hello

I found this article in The Times, a UK broadsheet.

It describes the growing competition for low-cost travellers in Germany, and an announcement from Germanwings that they will compete with easyJet "route for route" until they are forced to eventually quit the German market. 4U is not worried about Berlin, as it does not consider the city to be viable for the kind of service it offers.

I really like 4U's service but it has to be said that their fares are not always the most competitive in relation to other low-cost airlines. One also has to consider who is 'pulling the strings' for 4U, behind the scenes.  Big grin Still, from a passenger perspective, I cannot fault them.

Anyway, here is the brief article:

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,9077-1088576,00.html

regards

40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4010 times:

This is really sad... these statements are scaring... people forget that at last people work for airlines and earn their life... this increased competition (other ones are 'enemies') and the ambition to "kick off" someone will result in job losses... and always the commom man will suffer

I think airlines should rather cooperate - like they do with the codeshare practice - than have wars (better for Pax, airlines and environment). There is something not right with our global economy...  Sad

[Edited 2004-05-03 14:15:21]

User currently offlineQIguy24 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3988 times:

I agree with you Mrniji,

But like a very wise man named Pe@rson once told me. May the strongest win. I know it's hard for people to loose their jobs. But how many do you think Easyjet has employed in Germany?


User currently offlineDonder10 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 6660 posts, RR: 21
Reply 3, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3981 times:

think airlines should rather cooperate - like they do with the codeshare practice - than have wars. There is something not right with our global economy...

I think we'll take the European model over the Indian aviation model,thanks Smile


User currently offlineGKirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24924 posts, RR: 56
Reply 4, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3973 times:

I can see easyJet giving them an absolute hammering  Wink/being sarcastic


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3968 times:

But how many do you think Easyjet has employed in Germany

I wouldn't think too many, since their presence is still small. But job losses could go beyond Germany, since Germanwings says they will compete on every ef EasyJet's Route to Britain. If they do well, there will be job losses in Britain (and beyond), too

Welcome to the new economy...


User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3952 times:

I think we'll take the European model over the Indian aviation model,thanks

At least in India, you have something like a secure job and don't have to permanently be afraid to be ousted...

What's wrong with the Indian modell: good load factors, cheap fares, many jobs and revenues are increasing (AI is making wins, IC is cutting losses, the privates are improving...). Regulation is a good alternative to blind neoliberalism

 Nuts


User currently offlineDoorsToManual From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3906 times:

N.B. easyJet are recruiting German Cabin Crew and ground staff for their SXF and DTM bases.

regards


User currently offlineVSGirl From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3899 times:

I would put all my money on EasyJet. Good bye Germanwings.

Kimberly.


User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 9, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3832 times:

It's really up to the question of how much money Lufthansa/Eurowings want to sink in their fight against EasyJet - I don't really see Germanwings disappearing, but I wouldn't be surprised to see them change that tactic at a point in the future, explaining it with the "reallocation of planes to more profitable routes"...

Regards,
Frank



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineEham From Netherlands, joined Sep 2003, 448 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3818 times:

I personally think easyJet will kick-out Germanwings!



User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4693 posts, RR: 42
Reply 11, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3755 times:

Anyway, it is good news for us, the customers.

For my part, I am glad that we have relatively free competition in the airline market and not some kind of regulation, which prohibits the free flow of prices and the matching of demand and supply.



Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
User currently offlineDonder10 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 6660 posts, RR: 21
Reply 12, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3713 times:

At least in India, you have something like a secure job and don't have to permanently be afraid to be ousted...

What's wrong with the Indian modell: good load factors, cheap fares, many jobs and revenues are increasing (AI is making wins, IC is cutting losses, the privates are improving...). Regulation is a good alternative to blind neoliberalism


Regulation is a good alternative to blind neoliberalism.

And you have evidence for that?Everywhere that aviation has been liberalised,fares have come down and capacity greatly increased.


User currently offlineGodBless From Sweden, joined Apr 2000, 2752 posts, RR: 16
Reply 13, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3655 times:

As we say here in Germany: "You never eat your meal as hot as it has been cooked."
Of course Germanwings will say what they did, it would be a sign of weakness if they didn't...
But if you look at how things are in reality than I look at the statement with a grin. The last few flights I checked with Germanwings were always far more expensive than those with competing airlines. And with flights going to MAD I would even fly 80EUR cheaper with Lufthansa (4U from CGN, LH from DUS).
Well maybe 4U wants to earn as much as possible now so that they have enough cash to burn once U2 enters the market at CGN and DTM.
And at this point I see no jobs being lost...

Max


User currently offlineBa319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8524 posts, RR: 54
Reply 14, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3557 times:
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If it were to be a straight fight between the 2,then Easyjet would win,but it depends how much money LH is willing to sink into 4U to fight EZY.

This could be very interesting.



111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
User currently offlinePW100 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2002, 2434 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 3421 times:

What's wrong with the Indian modell: good load factors, cheap fares, many jobs and revenues are increasing (AI is making wins, IC is cutting losses, the privates are improving...). Regulation is a good alternative to blind neoliberalism

Now, if they could get things going in the aircraft purchase department . . .

I think easyJet is very wise in taking on Berlin. They are putting themselves in prime position to take full advantage of the new Brandenburg airport [BBI, if ever constructed Nuts]. How is Berlin aviation going to look like in 10 - 20 years? How's Berlin going to look like in twenty years, will it be the heart of [the new] Europe . . . easyJet will be ready for it!

PW100



Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
User currently offlineSnnams From Ireland, joined Apr 2004, 288 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3384 times:

I would very much take the remark with a pinch of salt..

Germanwings are a great airline.. flew from DUB to CGN with them recently. Perhaps the best low cost i've flown with.

Having said that, Lufthansa (a.k.a Germanwings) have not done such a good job of getting rid of Ryanair, and im sure such a heavily populated area as the ruhr gebeit has quite enough people to support the both Easyjet and Germanwings. In any case, they each fly from airports at either end of this area.

And I very much agree with PW100: great move from Easyjet with basing in Berlin!


User currently offlinePelican From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 2531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3308 times:

There is another German proverb. If two argue, the third will be pleased...
The competition between LCCs will be fierce, maybe it is already fierce.
4U have already AB in Berlin as competitor, thus there is no need for Germanwings to get fierce competition in Berlin.

They are putting themselves in prime position to take full advantage of the new Brandenburg airport
But than they have to last until the last judgment. At least a looong, long time.

pelican


User currently offlineNudelhirsch From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 1438 posts, RR: 19
Reply 18, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3226 times:

There will always be a loser when it comes to competition. Welcome to free markets... As an aviaiton friend and enthusiast, I don't want to see any loser at all, but as a German I would honestly prefer Germanwings to survive, because the layoffs EasyJet would do in UK don't bother us directly.
This is normal, every nation wants to get it's share of the cake, but some will go empty.
But like I said, I don't want to see any airline lose this "game".



Putana da Seatbeltz!
User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3199 times:

And you have evidence for that?Everywhere that aviation has been liberalised,fares have come down and capacity greatly increased.

Yes, often capacity has been added where demand did not increase... no wonder so many airlines make losses ... and people have lost their jobs. Nice, Donder10

For my part, I am glad that we have relatively free competition in the airline market and not some kind of regulation, which prohibits the free flow of prices and the matching of demand and supply.

 Big grin the free flow of market prices, the market clearing forces and so on... believe it or not...

Just to clarify my position: I am not pro regulation and contra liberalization, but prefer a good mix rather falling from one extreme to the other

 Smokin cool


User currently offlineDonder10 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 6660 posts, RR: 21
Reply 20, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3080 times:

Yes, often capacity has been added where demand did not increase... no wonder so many airlines make losses ... and people have lost their jobs. Nice, Donder10


Yes, often capacity has been added where demand did not increase... no wonder so many airlines make losses ...
Give some private sector European examples then.


... and people have lost their jobs. Nice, Donder10

Since liberalisation in Europe we have seen the growth of easyJet and Ryanair amongst others creating many thousands of jobs in the sector while lowering fares greatly.I think our model is pretty good at creating value all round especially with its wider implications for the economy.


Just to clarify my position: I am not pro regulation and contra liberalization, but prefer a good mix rather falling from one extreme to the other

Such as?


User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3043 times:

Give some private sector European examples then

AB) (FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">FRA-TXL... planes hardly full (only peak times), but new competitors, generally on many intra-German routes

Since liberalisation in Europe we have seen the growth of easyJet and Ryanair amongst others creating many thousands of jobs in the sector while lowering fares greatly.I think our model is pretty good at creating value all round especially with its wider implications for the economy.

And "traditional carriers" like LH, BA "rationalize" (nice word, he??)  Smokin cool
Then, labor standards drop with these carriers since they are deemed to make as much profit as possible... yeah, social aspects and humans are out, because labor is "only an input"


Position: you can have a liberal civil aviation framework, but impose some standards, such as labor (minimum wage), environment (tax on polluting a/c), to remain brief...


User currently offlineEzycrew From Spain, joined Oct 2001, 460 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3032 times:

Germanwings statement that Berlin can never be a viable market for the LCC's is so wrong.... any medium-to-big cities have a potential... look at Liverpool in the UK... totally ignored by all airlines until EZY set up a hub and made it one of its most profitable base... and there are so many examples, like GVA (that SR almost totally abandonned in the early 90's), NCL, EMA, etc....

User currently offlineSnnams From Ireland, joined Apr 2004, 288 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2990 times:

Ezycrew,

Agree with you on that. Low fares can stimulate demand practically anywhere...

It sounds like Lufthansa/Germanwings are in a similar state of denial to that AerLingus and British Airways were in, in the days when Ryanair first got going.

To even try to suggest that a city of well over three million people has no potential as a low cost base is ludicrous.


User currently offlineRB211LTN From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 133 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2960 times:

I once worked for eJ and pity any poor Germans who go to work for them. Workers rights are non-existent and respect from the management has never featured in their business plan.

Eurowings e-mail me every week boasting of their low fares, but everyone here seems to think they are expensive. As a comparison I booked LHR-BCN-LHR last year on BA for £89 return. For flights on the same day at the same time LTN-BCN-LTN eJ wanted £120. No seat allocation, no drink, no food. No contest!

I hope Eurowings kick their orange bum all the way back to LTN.



The customer is always right.....unless he is a passenger!
25 Donder10 : Position: you can have a liberal civil aviation framework, but impose some standards, such as labor (minimum wage), environment (tax on polluting a/c)
26 Post contains images Mrniji : And the problem of this is what?The entry of LCCs has created wealth,not diverted it. And there are considerably worse examples from airlines that are
27 Pelican : Mrniji - did you ever heard about "social market economy", here in Europe (at least at the most parts of what's called Western Europe) we have some st
28 Post contains images Mrniji : Mrniji - did you ever heard about "social market economy", here in Europe (at least at the most parts of what's called Western Europe) we have some st
29 Pelican : Here in Germany I can't see any decline - despite we have a social market economy we have big problems with unemployment! I haven't any problems with
30 GodBless : But than I' don't understand how can somebody consider Berlin as a small market? The Berlin area is the second biggest metropolitan area in Germany an
31 Post contains images Zak : "I don't think that the decision of Germanwings to ignore Berlin was a bad idea. HLX and AB are already here. LH has also some connections from TXL."
32 Post contains images Pelican : industrial dessert okay maybe (but with a little bit of aviation industry like Rolls Royce and MTU - so what? The oasis called Berlin has a population
33 Zweed : Pretty scary to se people, in they year of 2004 considering competition a bad thing since it "makes people unemployed" Perhaps you lot should consider
34 Post contains images Pelican : ZAK you can get a 90E return flight to berlin with LH, so why bother making competition to its parent airline if you cant beat their price by a signif
35 Mrniji : The oasis called Berlin has a population of more than 4 millions that means if you consider Berlin as not viable you can't invest in the most parts of
36 Planemaker : I imagine that Berliners, like most people, like to travel... and if they are offered good air fares why wouldn't they travel? Amongst the 4-million p
37 Pelican : I know about the problems of Berlin, because I live in the region (profile) it is in the absolute middle of nowhere (the infrastructure around is real
38 Post contains images Mrniji : Dear Pelican I know about the problems of Berlin, because I live in the region (profile) This is always the best way to start a discussion: "I know ev
39 Post contains images Pelican : @Mrniji I don't want to deny the facts you have stated in reply 38! I have only tried to prove your statement "the infrastructure around is really bad
40 Musapapaya : Hi, in my opinon, 4U is sort of more puntual and efficent while easyjet is slow, not on time... with regards to service, i cant say a word, i just bee
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