Taca From Costa Rica, joined Feb 2013, 0 posts, RR: 0 Posted (9 years 7 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5083 times:
According with some news delivered today, the monopoly for flights between Central America of Copa Airlines and Taca Group, is going to an end. West Caribbean (Colombian based) and Aeropostal (Venezuelan) announced new flights between Central American countries.
Even more, Aeropostal and Sol Air also announced in Honduras a new strategic alliance to compete with CM and TA.
According with my point of view, West Caribbean (using small aircraft for only 43 passengers) nor Aeropostal with an a very old fleet, can compete with the brand new 737 of CM and A319 and A320 of TA, and their experience and background of both.
Aer From Guatemala, joined Mar 2004, 1037 posts, RR: 3 Reply 7, posted (9 years 7 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4800 times:
I know it sounds right with the etymological roots of the words; but in business, what I study, oligopoly (oligopolio) is the right term for these cases. Merriam-Websters dictionary states "a market situation in which each of a few producers affects but does not control the market."
nice and spacious airports in need of new airlines and flights... GUA or FRS anyone?... anyone at all?
EddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7430 posts, RR: 44 Reply 8, posted (9 years 7 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4770 times:
As far as I know, the term oligopoly can be applied, as you insist, to markets in which there are two participants, but the term duopoly is way more used under such circumstances. If you take a look at court opinions, treatises, case studies, law school text books and case books, law journals and other sources of authoritative information on legal matters, you will find that the term duopoly is more frequently used to describe such markets than the term oligopoly, which term is rather applied to markets in which more than two participants exert control. FYI, follow this link to a paper published in NYU's Journal of Industrial Economics. It is only an example of how economists (both writers of the paper are members of the faculty of the departments of economics of very renowned international universities) and lawyers tend to use, on a regular basis, the term duopoly for markets in which there are two participants that have a dominant position: http://pages.stern.nyu.edu/~lcabral/papers/JIE%201997.pdf. Like this paper, you will find many, many more applications of the word duopoly to such markets. Too bad I do not have here at home my notes, materials and casebook from the Antitrust Law course that I took while pursuing my LL.M. degree at the University of Chicago Law School. I could quote portions of court opinions and of text books using this term.
CptGirmayTesfa From Peru, joined Oct 2003, 406 posts, RR: 3 Reply 10, posted (9 years 7 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4698 times:
I word from Copa's hub:
I think it will be hard to really compete with Copa and Taca if a newcomer cannot come up with at least daily flights between the Central American capitals. Also, Aeropostal has a bad image here because of their very old planes.
But on the positive side: the market is promising, Taca and Copa flights are well filled and are very profitable. There is even such a demand that Taca still manages to fly around here, even though Copa Airlines is far better than Taca in terms of service.
Taca From Costa Rica, joined Feb 2013, 0 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (9 years 7 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4675 times:
"There is even such a demand that Taca still manages to fly around here, even though Copa Airlines is far better than Taca in terms of service."
I don't want to transform this forum into a battle field. But I strongly disagree with this statement.
CM service is basically as good as TA. Nevertheless. TA has more destinations and frequencies than CM. Even more, Taca's fleet is as new as CM, but greater. TA shares is basically own by Central American people (specially Kriete family, a Salvadoran family) among some other minor shareholders. So, TA (Transportes Aereos del Continente Americano, ex Transportes Aereos Centroamericanos) is 100% owned by Central American people vs. CM that practically belongs to CO (at least 49% of it's capital).
CptGirmayTesfa From Peru, joined Oct 2003, 406 posts, RR: 3 Reply 13, posted (9 years 7 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4626 times:
Me and my colleagues here avoid Taca wherever possible; fortunately Copa is opening more routes within CAM, like SJO-TGU. I used to be stationed in Costa Rica, now I moved to Panama, happy as Copa has more options from here than from SJO
Taca has that Copa has not:
*uncomfortable departure times due to their morning hub system in SAL (so going out towards SAL you have to be very early!)
*freaking low on-board temperature
*The nasty habit of not distributing headphones on flights shorter than 2 hours (ie. most C-Am flights), but instead providing a loud-volume entertainment (rock music and annoying ads included) through the speakers.
*No food (except for some lousy peanuts or similar).
Taca From Costa Rica, joined Feb 2013, 0 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (9 years 7 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4608 times:
I can say exactly the same about myself and friends that avoid CM.
TA has three major hubs: SAL, SJO and LIM instead just one as CM in PTY.
*Freaking low on-board temperature? Come on! You must be joking... Give me a better excuse!
*"Nasty habit..." "Loud volume..." "Rock music..." And you hear the fifth symphony from Beethoven in a 30 minutes flight? In what world do you live?
*What do you get with CM during 55 minutes flight from SJO to PTY at 7 a.m.?
A lobster? Just a lousy peanuts man.
As I told you TA is a Central American product. CM is just a part of CO.
I will not say "CM= brrrrrrrrr". It will be a totally lack of respect, to you and to CM people. But please, open your eyes man!!!!!!!!!
CptGirmayTesfa From Peru, joined Oct 2003, 406 posts, RR: 3 Reply 15, posted (9 years 7 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4598 times:
Well brrrrr is an expression of feeling cold (refer to my earlier comment on on-board temperature) in my language and I thought in others too, sorry if I upset you on that one.
Well I don't care who owns the airline, I care about the service!
*yes, it is always very cold
*Rock or Beethoven... whatever, that's not the point. Provide earphones for those who want to listen to what they like, or keep the system shut. It's that simple.
*Taca from PTY goes at 6am. The afternoon prop flight is unreliable as it is frequently cancelled. TGU departure same problem. MEX departures are so early, not even to consider! By the way, Copa has 3 flights daily between SJO and PTY, so easy to avoid the 7am one.
*Copa has decent food on all flights; on the shortest flights it is at least a warm sandwich.
I hope for Taca that not too many people open their eyes indeed
PS many ticos in SJO say the same, the former LACSA was much better!
Taca From Costa Rica, joined Feb 2013, 0 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (9 years 7 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4586 times:
We definitely agree to disagree.
I really didn't understand the "brrrrrrrrr". Now I do and I apologize!
As long as I know those three daily flights are code shared with TA (pls correct me if I am wrong).
**Taca from PTY goes at 6am.** And Copa from SCL to PTY departs at 3:00 a.m. or so, and the service (pls understand "the food", nothing against the F/As) is simply uneatable. I really don't understand what do you mean by "decent food" or if you are insinuating that TA's food is "not decent". All depends on what you understand by "decent".
I don't work for any, I repeat, any airline in this world. I'm just a professional who travel for business or pleasure. I don't know if it's your case. But I always try to keep both eyes wide open to see the reality and the truth and mine about TA and CM is very different as yours. That's for sure!
By the way, CM owns me the "warm" sandwich. I never ever see one between SJO-PTY and viceversa.
CptGirmayTesfa From Peru, joined Oct 2003, 406 posts, RR: 3 Reply 17, posted (9 years 7 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4568 times:
CM and TA only code-share on MGA-SAL: an afternoon CM flight that TA was interested in too. I take that flight often as it is the only way to get into SAL and get a connection without having to weak up at 5am.
I agree 100% that CM's flights from Santiago is terrible. But it's the only CM flight in the entire system that has a very bad schedule. Anyway, we were talking about Central America.
SJO-PTY on CM: morning flight: warm sandwich, filled with ham and cheese
afternoon flights: cold ham and cheese sandwich with potato crisps and chocolate bar.
evening flights: breadsticks with cheese, raisins and chocolate bar.
I agree that if you don't like cheese you are better off with the TA peanuts.
I have flown the route zillion times, and it's really like that! I suppose you had an exceptional CM flight.
I agree on our disagreements. I can only add that I am at least someone from a third country....
Taca From Costa Rica, joined Feb 2013, 0 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (9 years 7 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4561 times:
You allow me to talk about the SCL-PTY route when you talked about MEX (that is not Central America) in your reply #15.
You are definitely not the only one who fly the route zillion(?) of times, maybe the only Ethiopian in Panama, but for sure the only non Panamanian citizen who memorized Copa's "menu". Sounds strange that you first state that "Copa has decent food on all flights; on the shortest flights it is at least a warm sandwich." (See reply 15). And after you say that "afternoon flights: cold ham and cheese sandwich with potato crisps and chocolate bar" (so the "warm" sandwich became "cold" minutes later). (See reply 17). That's why I told you to keep your eyes wide open, not only to memorize a menu, but to see what you previously wrote.
By the way, your supposition about my CM flights (yes, with an "s", in plural) were not exceptional, not even good. That's the reason why I prefer TACA!
I don't understand what do you exactly mean with your last statement, but I know that you're Ethiopian (the only one in Panama according with you), that you live (or are based) in Panama, so at least, you have a Panamanian Residency. And I'm a proud Tico and a loyal TACA customer!
P.S. I do love cheese. You should ever try sometime the Costarican one!
CptGirmayTesfa From Peru, joined Oct 2003, 406 posts, RR: 3 Reply 19, posted (9 years 7 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4541 times:
Sorry about Mexico, you are right.
Food: You are right in your counter attacks; but I think hard to deny that CM's food as listed is better than the TA mani.....
What I mean with my last statement: I am neither Panamese nor Costarican, so it seems to me at I am more objective! Reading your last message and your signature I suspect that the proud factor plays a role in your case.
I have lived for three years in your country too, by the way. Now I am stationed in Panama, but will move later this year to Peru.
Taca From Costa Rica, joined Feb 2013, 0 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (9 years 7 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4512 times:
"I am neither Panamese nor Costarican, so it seems to me at I am more objective! Reading your last message and your signature I suspect that the proud factor plays a role in your case".
I have to say that your obsession about the mani (peanuts) and the cold and warm sandwiches is really weird. The last peanut I saw in Taca was last Monday (May 3rd., 2004), flight 630 from CCS to SJO, and was just the beginning of an exquisite complete hot meal, dessert and full bar service.
By the way, I really don't see anything wrong with the peanuts, widely served by CO which owns CM (CM serve "papitas" instead of "mani").
What a coincidence, the salad served yesterday in a meeting has Turrialba, and nobody complained... Maybe next time we will try an Ethiopian recipe.
About my signature it's very simple, and nothing new: I'm a proud customer of TA for more than 10 years, and loyal to my principles. You may see dozens of signatures like mine in airliners.net from people who is also loyal to an specific airline, and don't work for it! Just check them!
Hope you'll enjoy your next station (LIM), as well as you do with CM's warm and cold sandwiches. A city where TA has, among two others, a hub.
Instead of those insipid sandwiches try a ceviche de corvina or a chupe!
Lan_Fanatic From Chile, joined Sep 2001, 1071 posts, RR: 6 Reply 21, posted (9 years 7 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4494 times:
Oh, central american fight...nice!... LOL
I have a question. Are Taca and Copa succesful in routes to deep South America (SCL,EZE,GRU)?? I don't know about Taca, but as far as I know Copa is succesful. And if so, why other airlines like Lan, Aerolineas Argentinas or Varig don't fly to SJO or PTY???
EddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7430 posts, RR: 44 Reply 22, posted (9 years 7 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4480 times:
Lan_Fanatic, now that you mention that LA does not fly to PTY, do you know if LA's Peruvian affiliate LP flies to PTY?
I find it strange that the big South American carriers neglect Central America. I guess the reason why CM is successful to EZE, GRU and SCL is because it has no competition from AR, RG, JJ and LA. If these carriers flew to PTY they would probably do so with widebody airplanes and that would put CM in disadvantage (I believe PTY-EZE in a 737 must be somewhat uncomfortable).
Taca From Costa Rica, joined Feb 2013, 0 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (9 years 7 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4475 times:
What concerns about TA, South American routes are profitable for the biggest Central American Airline. It has daily flights to Bogota, Caracas, Quito, Guayaquil, Lima (where TA has one of three Hubs), Cuzco, La Paz, Santa Cruz, Santiago, Sao Paulo and Buenos Aires. Routes to deep South America destinations, operated through Taca Peru, part of Grupo Taca, and based in Lima use A319 for 120 passengers and A320 for 150 passengers.
Upper South America destinations (like BOG and CCS) are operated daily from SJO and SAL (by TA or LR).
I think it's important to state that for example CCS it's a very profitable route for TA (operated by LR) since 9/11 incident, for people flying to Europe and connecting with AZ, AF, LH and IB, trying to avoid MIA.
Once in the past Varig flew to SJO using a sharing code with LR (before TA begins as Grupo Taca), but they dropped it soon. Avianca, Sam and Aces did the same until Aces filed for bankruptcy.
I really don't think that Central America is profitable for Lan, Varig or Aerolineas Argentinas, since that routes (from and to Central America) are well covered by TA and CM.
(I miss LAN, the best Latin American Airline, and like its new livery)!
Lan_Fanatic From Chile, joined Sep 2001, 1071 posts, RR: 6 Reply 24, posted (9 years 7 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4430 times:
That is what I don't get.
Maybe with one airline for each route (from SJO and PTY) is enough. But how come the southern cone airlines never realized that this routes would be succesful? Or is it because of the connecting posssibilities TA and CM offer? At least this two airlines offer much cheaper fares to MIA as an example, than Lan from SCL
25 Taca: TA and CM really don't have "cheaper" fares for routes from SCL to MIA, but they do offer from time to time special fares during the year (you may che
26 Taca: Sorry, I forget to mention America West, US Airways and Delta with daily flights to and from SJO, that adds opportunities to connect with a direct fli
27 Jjjm: Well Well, i normally don´t reply but here i go... I flown many times on TACA, and I can say they are a great small Airline... They have a decent web
28 Taca: Jjjm Thank you very much for your comment! I'll appreciate it!
29 Copa737: Taca, For your info, Copa Airlines was named the best airline in Central America, Mexico and the Caribbean, by SkyTrax, an English market-survey compa
30 CptGirmayTesfa: I wouldn't be too enthusiastic taking Taca from the Southern Cone to Central America / Caribbean / US, apart from the reasons I gave above. Look at th
31 EddieDude: Felipe, which Mexican destinations will be started by CM? They are already flying to MEX and CUN, so I can only think of MTY. Perhaps GDL too? Or an a
32 CptGirmayTesfa: Rumors here are about Monterey, perhaps Copa737 can confirm. BTW I wonder how Copa can add more destinations as at the 'hub times' at PTY, all gates s
33 Copa737: Yes, many people says that Monterrey could be a new Copa destination, but only the time will tell us. Well, Panama is working hard to get a new Tocume
34 Taca: "For your info, Copa Airlines was named the best airline in Central America, Mexico and the Caribbean, by SkyTrax, an English market-survey company. T
35 Luisca: it could be another leisure route, like puerto vallarta or acapulco. The new T2 at Tocumen will be done by 2007, the remodeling of the old terminal by
36 MaverickM11: How can it be a monopoly, or duopoly, or oligoply, when TA isn't even one company, but rather a group of companies that seek to merge into one entity?
37 Taca: "TACA (the user not the airline) seems to love emphazizing that copa is partially owned by CO, but forgets that he doesnt have a national airline, lik
38 MaverickM11: "By the way, at what time arrive CM to SCL?" 0245 local, and departs for PTY at 0345
39 Copa737: Taca, Please visit http://www.airlinequality.com/2004/group_results.htm for the awards results. It's not the first time Copa receive an award. I haven
40 Taca: "The Hub of the Americas have also received awards. I haven't heard the same from El Salvador, Lima or San Jose. Sorry, but the passengers have the fi
41 CptGirmayTesfa: Well as the discussion started, TA and CM will face some more competition, so let's see how many clients stay loyal! I am skeptical though, it seems t