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ATA Post First Quarter Loss  
User currently offlineAirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3708 posts, RR: 12
Posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2810 times:
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http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/040507/airlines_ata_earns_2.html
How can they be thinking of a big Boeing order when losing mone? Is Boeing going to refinance their debt.


Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
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User currently offlineGSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3108 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2770 times:

How can a LCC in the US be doing badly?? I thought they were all making money hand-over-fist...


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User currently offlineAirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3708 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2767 times:
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From what I understand ATA has been greatly affected by 9/11. I wonder what that loss would be without all of the military transport that ATA provides using their L1011's. Any ATA insiders please help us out.


Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlineMSYtristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2752 times:

Just my opinion, but I honestly think one of the reason's for the loss is that the smallest mainliner in ATA's fleet is the 738. That's a pretty big aircraft, and it's one of the reasons why an efficient 100-seater is so vital for the long term existence of the airline. Chances are the break even load factor is pretty high on the 738. ATA can turn this around, and when they get the new aircraft, they will be better able to match capacity with demand on numerous routes.


Steve/MSY


User currently offlineWmupilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 1473 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2678 times:

ATA took a one time charge of around $27million for the bond exchange. This played a major part in the first quarter loss. Nobody in the company is too concerned about the loss. We posted a full-year profit last year and are expecting to post another full-year profit this year.


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User currently offline7E72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2659 times:

What cities would you like to see served by ATA if they did get the smaller jets? I would like to see DCA from IND, SEA from IND as well (although they would need one of the bigger jets  Big thumbs up


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User currently offlineChiGB1973 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1620 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2637 times:

Part of the problem is all the LCC competition, if you want to call that a problem. It's just business for everyone. Plus, CO and AA are giving all the LCCs a run for their money. It's going to be an interesting couple of years for everyone.

M


User currently offline7E72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2634 times:

I have to agree..it will definitely be an interesting year...i think the "pecking order" is going to change a little bit  Big thumbs up


The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6637 posts, RR: 21
Reply 8, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2577 times:

In a conference call with analysts on Friday, ATA Chief Executive George Mikelsons said the airline will become the first low-cost carrier to launch scheduled transatlantic service. The carrier, which has flown chartered flights to Europe for 20 years, plans to start scheduled service there in 2005


Didn't they have scheduled service to Ritga, Lativa?



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User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4528 posts, RR: 33
Reply 9, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2556 times:

Part of the problem is all the LCC competition, if you want to call that a problem. It's just business for everyone. Plus, CO and AA are giving all the LCCs a run for their money. It's going to be an interesting couple of years for everyone. M

I too think this is probably a factor for ATA, because they share their hub airport with Southwest. If I remember right, ATA's CASM is higher than Southwest's, and they compete directly on West Coast and Florida routes, and indirectly on East Coast routes (WN-BWI, ATA-DCA, etc.). If they have to match Southwest, that's going to put pressure on their bottom line. What is ATA's CASM these days?

Jim



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User currently offlineInnocuousFox From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2805 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2543 times:

"Just my opinion, but I honestly think one of the reason's for the loss is that the smallest mainliner in ATA's fleet is the 738. That's a pretty big aircraft, and it's one of the reasons why an efficient 100-seater is so vital for the long term existence of the airline."

I absolutely do no agree with this statement. The per aircraft capacity should match the routes flown. ATA flies to major markets only. If they were trying to do smaller markets, sure - they would need smaller aircraft. One advantage of the larger jets is economy of scale... The per seat costs are smaller. If you can fill them, then you are doing just fine.



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User currently offlineTiger119 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1919 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2473 times:

" Didn't they have scheduled service to Ritga, Lativa? "

George Mikelsons (the Boss) is a native of Latvia and TZ had scheduled service to there several years ago. I can not remember what years those flights were or where the Latvia flights originated though.



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User currently offlineHighliner2 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 696 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2428 times:

But if you can't fill that larger airplane your not going to do just fine.

You have a flight from MDW-LGA, 75 people are onboard.

On which aircraft would you make more money? 738, or say a 712 or something comparable?

The smaller aircraft of course. In addition, ATA is eyeing a significant expansion with the 100-seaters as well. The name of the game these days is matching capacity to demand.



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User currently offlineMSYtristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2413 times:

I stand by my statement. You can bet that not all of ATA's cities fill all those 738/757 flights on a consistent basis. Some maybe, but not all. Just because they target larger markets doesn't mean those larger markets will fill those aircraft. Having a load of 75 passengers on a 100-seat EMB190 is significantly more cost effective than having 75 on an all-economy 738. The smaller aircraft will give ATA the flexibility to adjust specific flights according the demand. But don't think those 738's are packed to the brim everyday. The break even load factor on those aircraft has to be somewhere around 120 if not a little more.


Steve/MSY


User currently offlineInnocuousFox From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2805 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2383 times:

By that logic, an airline should just have a fleet of B1900s and make sure they are all filled.


Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
User currently offlineMSYtristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2360 times:

That's obviously not the message I was trying to convey Innocuous, but when the smallest plane in the fleet is an all-coach 738, you better make certain that you can fill the required seats in order to operate in the black. I'm not so sure that ATA is doing that. Just my opinion.


Steve/MSY


User currently offlineLN-MOW From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 1909 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2313 times:

Steve - you're right. The 738 is too big for some of the markets we serve today. Our management is aware of this, and instead of dropping these destinations, they will be served with the smaller aircraft. That is - when and if it appears .... It will also be good for increasing frequencies in other markets.
I suspect the gameplan is to introduce the smaller aircraft when 757's become redeployed to European flights. As we now have dropped the additional 757's (except two), this may be the way ATA wants to go.

As for the range question that was raised: The range for the 757-200 is 7240km - IND-Cologne is 6934. That's pushing it if the winds are unfavourable..



- I am LN-MOW, and I approve this message.
User currently offlineWmupilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 1473 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2269 times:

Right but remember that, I believe, ATA said that IND and MDW would not see direct european service. I'm pushing for either New York or Boston to see the international flights. IND and MDW might see 1 stop flights to Europe.

As stated earlier the new aircraft would be expected to be added to the fleet in early to mid '05 (if they are ordered). This would coincide with several ETOPS rated 757s being pulled off line to head those flights. If I'm not mistaken all the 757s are ETOPS rated as well as a couple of 738s. I believe that somebody also stated earlier that Boeing is looking for the order with in the next few months. The major obstacle was the first quarted results. Even though we posted a loss it was only $65million ($27million was a one time charge) The company is still expecting a full year profit, which to me is what really counts. I would look for an announcement from the company in the next few months, but I wouldn't put too much stock in what is being said until it comes from the company's mouth. Look at the 767 deal. It was almost a done deal but they couldn't get the proper financing for the L-1011s replacement nor could they get the unions to agree to a pay scale. It's a funny business and now-a-days and nothing is set in stone until the first day an aircraft operates or a new route is flown.



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