M404 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2218 posts, RR: 5 Reply 2, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 2101 times:
This may be a trend that's on the increase in the states. Look at the new theory behind McCarran at Las Vegas (LAS) The airport can regain control of gates and not be held hostage by long term leases by making all gates available to all carriers based on need, times, facilities, ect. One central computer system that plugs into all carriers at each gate by access code. Interchangeable electronic or plastic slat signage completes the process. Seating now stays with the airport theme instead of the carrier as long as minimums are maintained. Waits for available gates can be cut down but would still be dependent on manpower available from each carrier. The jury is still way out on this experiment but if money can be saved some forms of this will be adapted.
Another form of sharing is in ground service contracts. In some European airports (and growing elsewhere) the carrier has to agree to a state or airport monopoly for ground work instead of the individual carriers doing it all themselves. Yes, this could and is construed as state endorsed coercion, especially by those carriers unions but it also a way for those same carriers to oust their own people and say they had no choice. It would depend on which devil you want to bed down with.
Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
B4real From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2602 posts, RR: 6 Reply 3, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 2068 times:
M404 Hast it right. It would be great to see common use gates, ticket counters, and kiosks. Only note is if I remember correctly - Southwest does not fit into the great model set by other carriers there at LAS - but I think they are like 50% of LAS traffic.
The European model of common-everything is great, and we should readily adopt this in the US. Especially for smaller airports.
For the techies out there, Network Computing mag did a great piece on LAS (CUSS, RFID, overall technology) last year. Here are some links:
LHRman From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 398 posts, RR: 6 Reply 4, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 2046 times:
Well at LHR the terminals are all designated and the flights are given a particular stand before they are scheduled to land. I know this because when I visited the LHR tower they have on there screens a list telling the controller the aircraft flight no (ie BA783), registration (ie G-EUPH), estimated arrival time (ie 14:26), runway in which it will land on (ie 09L), place where it is from (ie LIRF) and the stand in which it is allocated (ie 165). I hope this info is ok.
Mhodgson From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2002, 5047 posts, RR: 27 Reply 5, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 1996 times:
MAN is similar, they have ground planners, and certain airlines are always at a terminal, but apart from the BD shuttle always having gate 11, and the BA shuttles generally being on the same stand, there are very few stands used by a designated airline (except T3 which is BA)
No trees were harmed by this message. However, several million electrons were terribly inconvenienced
GlobeTrekker From Netherlands, joined Dec 2003, 851 posts, RR: 15 Reply 6, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 2007 times:
I work for KLM Ground Services in Aruba (AUA). We handle other companies like Continental, Surinam Airways, BonairExel etc. Meaning they all use their own airport systems.
Just like in AMS and many other airports we SITA's CUTE (Common Use Terminal Equipment). It is based in Windows and you can log into any airline system from any point in the whole airport.
For instance when you log in KLM's system at the check-in desk, the KLM logo will appear on the monitor above the counter. Same happens at the gate. If CO is the next flight to be checked in we log out of KL's system and log into CO's and start using Sonic. The gate readers also can be used for any airline. That way is way more efficient, especially for smaller airports, but also airports as large as AMS. The only thing that actually changes is that you have to bring the airlines' boarding pass and luggage tags to put in the boarding pass and luggage tag printer.
Cory6188 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2686 posts, RR: 6 Reply 9, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 1924 times:
At EWR, certain gates are on long-term lease and others are common use. For example, CO has all of Terminal C, and it is built to their specifications. The gate agent desks in C-3 have the CO logo built into the background (the same are found at IAH Terminal E) and the domestic checkin area has built-in kiosks. The international checkin upstairs is also modified to their needs.
AA has one concourse at A, as does UA (although they sublease some of their 8 or 9 gates). CO also has some gates at A as well for their flights to DFW, ATL, and ORD. Terminal B has some dedicated gates (such as for DL and NW), but most are common use (used for charters during the day and international arrivals at night).
Tommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6445 posts, RR: 9 Reply 10, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 1896 times:
Cory. There are a few other facts of gate sharing at EWR:
Terminal A is a madhouse for domestic carriers. Yes, UA has the A-1 satellite that is leased by them, but AirTran shares I believe gate 10. ATA and Alaska are in A-2 along with Continental and America West. I have never visited those gates, but I imagine there is some gate sharing between those carriers.
Terminal A-3 has a bit of gate sharing history. American has gates 30-35 (and they really do get good use out of them ) and US Airways has 36-39. US only uses 37 and 38 on most days. Before 9/11 National Airlines had to share with US Airways. For a while after they shut down, they still had the boarding counter there. Also, for a limited time the new Pan Am shared with US Airways out of gate 36.
In terminal B, Midwest and KLM shares a gate with NW, Air France, and El Al shares gates with Delta.
"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
Cory6188 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2686 posts, RR: 6 Reply 15, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 1799 times:
I think that the best example of gate sharing that I've seen is in PVR.
There is one long hallway with all the gates. Each gate has no markings, counters, computers, or anything. Only certain ones have jetways. When an airline has a flight at a certain gate, each one has a rolling cart that they pull up to the counter, plug in to the wall, and put sliding numbers and cities in the generic sign. Once the flight is done boarding, they pack up the computer, disconnect the cart, and roll it into storage. For example, when I was there in April, CO had two carts: one for mainline that said "Continental Airlines" and one for Express that said "Continental Express".
Supersonic78 From Switzerland, joined May 2004, 146 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 1801 times:
We in ZRH have the same equipment as explained by GlobeTrekker, its all based on CUTE, and we sign in for the respective airline...
gates are not preassigned... the only thing that is assigned are the terminals,
Terminal 1: Swiss and Oneworld airlines
Terminal 2: Star alliance and others...
Only the gate areas are assigned: ie amercian carriers always leave from the so called 70ies (Gates A71-75) or Swiss flights heading to US are leaving from the 80ies (Gates A81-85) and so on...
Srbmod From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 17283 posts, RR: 51 Reply 17, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 1771 times:
ATL has gate sharing, a few gates on D and the entire E Concourse (in theory, but in reality, the airlines that operates out of E use the same gates on a day to day basis with little movement of gate location). Right now, there are 6 gates on the end of D-South (D-1, D-2, D-3, D-4, D-5, & D-7)that are shared by AirTran JetConnect (and the occassional mainline flight), America West, Frontier, and various charter operators as well.
InnocuousFox From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2805 posts, RR: 15 Reply 19, posted (9 years 7 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1609 times:
When we were doing research for the game, I talked to a lot of different airport ops managers. It was pointed out that many airports will have a handfull that are common use gates so that many airlines can use them for overflow here and there. It's not a great number of gates... maybe 10% at a large airport? There's no real formula.
Also, there will be sub-leasing of gates between airlines. One airline with infrequent service may pay another airline with a lot of gates for the ability to use a specific one of theirs.
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
ManchesterMAN From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 1204 posts, RR: 1 Reply 20, posted (9 years 7 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1586 times:
I can see the advantages of having gates dedicated to particular carriers and pre-assigned to a particular flight which uses the same gate every day, particularly at the busiest airports.
However this system which is in use at most US airports can be annoying for passengers when the assigned gate is occupied and you have to sit waiting for however long for it to clear when there are plenty of free gates. If an aircraft lands at MAN for example and the planned gate is occupied a new gate will be assigned before the aircraft even reaches the terminal. If though this was a Delta flight at MDW for example, and their only gate (C3) was occupied there would be problems and long delays whilst another gate was sourced.
Dedicated gates are good when they work, but when they don't ...
InnocuousFox From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2805 posts, RR: 15 Reply 21, posted (9 years 7 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1563 times:
"Dedicated gates are good when they work, but when they don't ..."
However, most carriers have enough gates to cover the peak number of flights they would have on the ground at one time. There are other ways of getting around the contingencies, however. If the one sitting at a gate is a mx problem, they can always push it out to a temp parking spot. As I mentioned in my post, there may be common use gates to use or they may be able to "borrow" another carrier's gate for a bit. They wouldn't have done it for this long if it was THAT much of a pain in the ass.
By the way, gate assignments are pretty fluid here in the states. They may have one pegged for a certain gate and then have it change while they are enroute or even as they land because of a delay. Unless you are in a situation where there is only one gate for a carrier at an airport, you aren't going to see a flight have the same gate day in and day out.
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
Flairport From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 23, posted (9 years 7 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1517 times:
Delta contracts its gates out at FLL occasionally...D3 and D4 are hardly used throughout the day.
however, in the past things have been different
at 1 point ATA Was at gate D4 (B4) all day and Midway was at gate D3 (B3). (those gates were hopping more than the Delta gates!)
Long ago, Icelandair served FLL from what, at the time was terminal 1.
Rattibone From Canada, joined Jul 2003, 125 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (9 years 7 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1502 times:
YYZ is very big on gate sharing. All of Terminal 3 is common use gates. Once Air Canada left their domestic operation out of Terminal 2, 10 gates that were left are now common use as well as 4 "swing gates". The non bridged gates at New T1 are common use but mostly used by JZA and Air Canada. All gates at the infield terminal are common use. Once the rest of the new Terminal 1 opens, all of those gates will be common use. All ticket counters as well in T1 are common use
The GTAA, along with SITA and Cisco Systems have worked together to create and implement a common use system with a system called CUPPS or Common Use Passenger Processing System. There have been numerous articles about it.
25 Dazultra: Mhodgson: Isnt the BD MAN-LHR shuttle usually gate T1 18? Also at MAN for instance the AA 767 service to ORD usually always uses the very end gate on
26 USAIRWAYS321: The new Concourse A at SEA will be exclusively common-use gates. True, there will be a set number of carriers operating from it and no others, but the