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KLM Back To Australia?  
User currently offlineKLMCedric From Belgium, joined Dec 2003, 812 posts, RR: 22
Posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4467 times:

When you compare skyteam ( KL, NW, and CO included) to other alliances
it seems to me that they have almost no flights to Australia.
Does any skyteam member actually fly there? I don't know!
I read in a Dutch newspaper (TELEGRAAF) not so long ago that KLM is considering
together with air France to fly to SYD again.
I don't know how much I can trust this paper and it's sources as it is known to be
a rather commercial and sensational paper.
I'm a KLM employee and I haven't read anything about this in the company info-papers.
But when you think about it something is going to have to be done about this.
Either AF or KL should restart a service to Australia.
Does anyone know anything more about this?
Do you agree with me this could be lucrative or is the Europe-Australia market
already to packed.
Also,... CO,DL or NW operating to Australia???
It would be a dream come true for me if KL would fly downunder again, this used to be
the alltime nr 1 favorite trip amongst KL cabin crew.
For all you guys wanting to do a good KLm-Air france bashing, whining, pessimist thing,
don't bother using this thread for it cos I'm a firm believer that this new airline group
is going to be fantastic!!!!

32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCptGirmayTesfa From Peru, joined Oct 2003, 406 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4398 times:

Keep on dreaming  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
the connections via Kuala Lumpur on MH make much more sense: why sending a 744 to say Sydney while a 2 or 3 times daily AMS-KUL provides many more frequency and connection possibilities!


User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8124 posts, RR: 54
Reply 2, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4389 times:

I think it's a terrible shame they stopped the route - KLM flew to Australia before any British airline, Imperial et al. I think it showed very poor form that they couldn't make money from it.

Re Skyteam, aren't Koreanair a member? They offer very heavily discounted (albeit exhausting) service from the US to Australia via Seoul (yes); and of course from Europe, where Korean is much more en route.

Anyway, a European airline should do it, and it should be KLM, given their history. Air France have never shown a loyalty to Australia, and in any case after French atom bomb testing in the S Pacific in the 90s (why couldn't they do it in France?), French products aren't that popular in Aus. I would think Aussies would fly KLM over Air France.



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineA340-Fan From Germany, joined Apr 2002, 252 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4381 times:

Hello KLMCedric,

KE flies ICN-SYD and ICN-BNE.

greetz

Nils


User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7587 posts, RR: 43
Reply 4, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4337 times:

KE is the only current SkyTeam member flying to Australia. And don't trust me 100% but maybe CO's affiliate Continental Micronesia (is that the name?) also flies to Australia. I hope someone confirms this.

I think SkyTeam really wants MH to join the alliance. If MH joins, I don't know if it will be convenient for AF or NW to start flights to Australia using their aircraft since MH will be able to offer good connections at KUL. I am sure that MH flights between KUL and its Australian destinations will bear the code of a lot of SkyTeam members.

KLMCedric, does AF or KL fly to KUL?



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineCptGirmayTesfa From Peru, joined Oct 2003, 406 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4317 times:

KLM is codesharing with MH on AMS-KUL: twice daily
AF doesnt go to KUL.


User currently offlineKLMCedric From Belgium, joined Dec 2003, 812 posts, RR: 22
Reply 6, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4307 times:

EddieDude,

KLM has a daily flight to KUL, continuing to Manila
I am almost sure that AF doesn't serve KUL.
In fact I believe that KLM and since short LH are the only two euro-carriers flying to
KUL.
Please correct me if I am wrong


User currently offlineOdie From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1641 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4284 times:

KLM flies 5 times a week into KUL, continuing onwards to Manila. Come November, KLM should be flying daily nonstop to Manila (no news on KUL operations yet).

KLM's code-share flights with MH:
Amsterdam - Kuala Lumpur; Kuala Lumpur - Perth/Brisbane/Sydney/Melbourne/Auckland/Adelaide

[Edited 2004-05-09 18:51:55]

User currently offlineKLMCedric From Belgium, joined Dec 2003, 812 posts, RR: 22
Reply 8, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4249 times:

Are KE and MH ( not knowing if they'll even join skyteam) big enough to support
all traffic to australia from the skyteam alliance??
I can't imagine. Any chance one of the three US-carriers start flying to Australia?
I mean , if MH doesn't join,skyteam isn't the global alliance the two others are if they
leave Autralia out of the picture.


User currently offlineMas777 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 1999, 2935 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4152 times:

KLM, Lufthansa and Austrian Airlines fly into Kuala Lumpur. Rumour is currently rife that another European carrier is also due to start flights into Kuala Lumpur - but Malaysia Airports seem to be keeping that one rather quiet at the moment.

User currently offlineSnnams From Ireland, joined Apr 2004, 288 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4032 times:

Mas77,

Something tells me it will be BA back to KUL. EI have also discussed it, but it is thought that SIN will probably be EI's first asian destination. (they were initially planning on starting by end of this year, but now seem to be more focused on more US flights)

Back to the original topic, while it would be nice to see KL back in Oz, it is tru that it makes more sense to codeshare with MAS through KUL. After all, a Europe-Oz flight has to stop somewhere along the way anyway: no time saved with a "direct" routing on one carrier.


User currently offlineAerohottie From Australia, joined Mar 2004, 802 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3870 times:

Although I do agree that should MH join Skyteam, it would be better for AF and KL to codeshare withMH via KUL. I also think KL and AF must look seriously at offering additional services via BKK, HKG and maybe even SHA to counter Star and OneWorld. This would give Skyteam 5 potential connections points (KUL, BKK, HKG, SHA and ICN with KE). Also allows for more traffic to/from central asia, and puts pressure on TG and CX. I wouldnt bother with SIN though, due to its close proximity to KUL.

Just my thoughts



What?
User currently offlineMats From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 632 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3820 times:

KLM's partner, Continental, does serve Cairns, Queensland. The flight is aboard Continental Micronesia from Guam. This flight isn't really useful for passengers originating in Amsterdam. Those passengers would have to fly the opposite direction and transfer in Newark or Houston, Honolulu, and Guam. At least one overnight layover would be required.

User currently offlineAirborne From Australia, joined Feb 2004, 27 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3725 times:

Would you believe it... Austrian Airlines are THE ONLY European carrier that fly to Australia!!

When I heard this myself, I couldn't believe it; but the more I think about it, I realise it is true.

But in Oz, we do benefit from a huge SQ and EK presence which offer excellent connections to the UK & Europe.


User currently offlineCptGirmayTesfa From Peru, joined Oct 2003, 406 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3712 times:

I am very surprised too. What happened to BA? Can anyone tell me?

User currently onlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3217 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3678 times:

CptGirmayTesfa

BA still fly to Australia.... it's just that some people don't think of the United Kingdom a part of europe, (despite EU membership, because they speak english and not some language the locals can't understand) hence the statement the Australian was the only european carrier. It is the only Continental european carrier. BA still still has many flights to both Sydney and melbourne, and code shares with QF to other capitals from SIN.


User currently offlineQantas077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5859 posts, RR: 40
Reply 16, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3667 times:

BA and Austrian are the only 2 carriers from europe to Oz, LH cargo also but thats not pax.

absolute fvken disgrace that a country like Australia is served by only 2 carriers from europe, to top it off Qantas only serves Paris, Frankfurt and London in europe.

 Sad



a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
User currently offlineFlyinghighboy From Australia, joined Aug 2001, 749 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3615 times:

As for KE flights from US to Australia, they are timed quite well so there isn't a long wait at ICN. I have done both but on the way to the US I stopped in Korea for a week. The return leg I went from JFK-ICN-SYD-MEL, the SYD-MEL was on a domestic QF flight, sometimes pax are lucky and get an international flight down to MEL so there isn't the hassle of collecting bags and customs in SYD and rechecking them etc.

The airfare I was able to get wasn't that well priced, it was about a fair bit more to take KE to New York over UA and QF which has a more direct route and saves a few hours. However ICN airport is really nice and free internet all over!!!


User currently offlineKEno From Malaysia, joined Feb 2004, 1842 posts, RR: 27
Reply 18, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3593 times:

Are KE and MH (not knowing if they'll even join skyteam) big enough to support all traffic to australia from the skyteam alliance??

Connection between Skyteam hubs & Malaysia :-

AMS-KUL MH017 B744 daily
AMS-KUL KL807 B747 5x a week
CDG-KUL MH021 B744 5x a week
FCO-KUL MH015 B772 3x a week

EWR-KUL MH091 B772 3x a week
BEY-KUL MH332 A332 3x a week

ICN-KUL MH065 A330 daily
ICN-KUL KE671 A330 daily
ICN-KUL MH061 A330 3x a week

NRT-KUL MH089 B772 daily
NRT-KUL MH071 B772 daily

-------------------------------------------------

Connection to Australia via KUL :-

KUL-SYD MH123 B744 daily
KUL-SYD MH141 B772 5x a week

KUL-MEL MH129 B744 daily
KUL-MEL MH149 B772 daily

KUL-PER MH125 B744 daily
KUL-PER MH127 A330 2x a week

KUL-BNE MH135 B772 5x a week

KUL-ADL MH139 B772 4x a week

KUL-AKL MH131 B772 5x a week
KUL-AKL MH131 B744 2x a week

-------------------------------------------------

Korean Air :-

ICN-SYD KE811 B744 daily

ICN-AKL KE823 B772 daily

ICN-BNE KE813 A333 3x a week


By the looks of it, SkyTeam really do need to have MH onboard. KE alone would not suffice to support the traffic to australia.

[Edited 2004-05-10 03:44:41]

User currently offlineAF022 From France, joined Dec 2003, 2162 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3587 times:

I think the Asian carriers - TG/SQ/MH/CX - have done such a good job with their connections Europe-hub-Australia that the Europeans - except BA - can't compete anymore. That intermediate stop - wherever it might be - is a killer.

That Austrian flight - under Lauda's code NG - stops in KUL. NG has 2 weekly KULMEL flights that leave at the ungodly hour of 0525 while MH has 14 weeklies. NG has 5 weekly KULSYD flights that depart at the same ungodly hour and MH has 12 weekly. The routing via KUL is probably a hard one to make money on, except O&D VIE-MEL/SYD traffic (how much could there be?) or super low-yield willing to endure LHR-VIE-KUL-SYD.

Its gotta be tough for them.

Just my thoughts...


User currently offlineSeamefly From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 317 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3565 times:

Up until June, it was only UA that flies out of the US mainland. HI is going to start their new SYD 3 times weekly out of HNL this summer. Other than that, CO Micronesia's route isn't really that much of a help. From the US, you either have to fly HNL-GUM, or NRT-GUM in order to get to their flight to Cairns.

Australia is in away like S. Africa. They have good demands from public to go there to visit but they can't really afford it because airfares are so damn expensive.

May be Jetblue/Southwest should start flying SYD and JNB so it will be more affordable for the public to visit those countries  Smile ... Do you think A320 or 737 can fly that long ? somehow? Big grin


User currently offlineKEno From Malaysia, joined Feb 2004, 1842 posts, RR: 27
Reply 21, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3567 times:

NG has 2 weekly KULMEL flights that leave at the ungodly hour of 0525 while MH has 14 weeklies.

VIE-MEL flight will cease to operate via KUL starting this june in favour of SIN to provide the only direct connection between VIE & SIN (surprisingly SQ doesn't fly to VIE). VIE-KUL-SYD flight will remain as it is.


User currently offlineUNITED777300 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 131 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3534 times:

Yes, but if SkyTeam recruits CI they'll have the additional gateway of TPE; which gives them ICN + TPE for now, which isn't that bad.


/// U N I T E D: It's Time to Fly.
User currently offlineAlitalia7e7 From Australia, joined Mar 2004, 185 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3446 times:

CEDARJET, French products are popular in Australia, the French in Australia are well respected for their country, fashion, products and culture.

I work for a French Telecommunications company, and their products are used in Canberra for Australian Parliament House, and not only just Parliament House but over 50 Goverment Business Units.

Accor a French company is HUGE in Australia, and the best for Hotels. Look at QF going to Airbus aircraft as well. I know Airbus is a European consortium but its still has French influence.

I think KLM should offer the following to capture Dutch / French and Italian markets in Australia.

AMS - SIN - SYD
SYD - SIN - CDG
CDG - SIN - SYD
SYD - SIN - FCO
FCO - SIN - SYD
SYD - SIN - AMS

There would be a daily flight to Sydney from Europe and 2 flights a week from either Rome / Amsterdam and Paris? Wouldn't that be cool?

Alitalia/KLM offered something similar in the late 90's and it worked out very well.


User currently offlineKEno From Malaysia, joined Feb 2004, 1842 posts, RR: 27
Reply 24, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3410 times:

Gosh enough with SIN already! KUL is the way to go now  Big thumbs up

25 Gemuser : Qantas077 I think you are being very unrealistic. The Oz market, to/from anywhere is very long and thin. This means it is extraordinarily expensive to
26 MELflyer : VIE-MEL flight will cease to operate via KUL starting this june in favour of SIN to provide the only direct connection between VIE & SIN (surprisingly
27 Alitalia7e7 : MELflyer, why did SQ drop VIE?
28 Ryanair!!! : SQ could not make money out of Vienna. Several other European destinations were dropped over the years as well including Berlin and Brussels.
29 KLMCedric : Does Olympic still fly to SYD ? Cos that would also be a European carrier flying to Australia.
30 KEno : Does Olympic still fly to SYD ? Nope. Just BA and Lauda/Austrian flies to Australia.
31 LJ : Alitalia/KLM offered something similar in the late 90's and it worked out very well. No it didn't. Yields were bad and wasn't a real money maker. The
32 Cedarjet : Maybe blowing up parts of the S Pacific haven't hurt France as much as I thought. I just remember how pissed off people were at the time. Singapore Ai
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