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Brief Update On Colombian Aviation  
User currently offlineSOUTHAMERICA From Colombia, joined Dec 2003, 2497 posts, RR: 10
Posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5008 times:


For the mid-year high season, the industry sees some minor changes.


AVIANCA

The airline has done a few modifications in its operations from their hub in BOG, all with the sole purpose of providing a better service for their customers.

After an April full of surprises for their customers, like double miles on all domestic flights and 2 for the price of 1 in Business Class domestically, from now on, the company will provide free Internet access from their own terminal in BOG, in specific points, to give passengers better options.

They have also modified the list of destiantions which are served from their terminal, and which from the general domestic terminal. So, Avianca will now serve, from their terminal in BOG, the following destinations:

Medellin, Cali, Barranquilla, Cartagena, Pereira, Barrancabermeja, Bucaramanga*, Armenia*, Manizales*, and Pasto*.

The rest of the route network will continue to be operated by the other terminals, including destinations like San Andrés, Santa Marta, and all international flights.

At the same time, the company has started charter flights to the Margarita Islands.

Regarding the CH-11 issue, at the end of the month we will have news aout it.

More info on http://www.avianca.com/

--------------------


AEROREPUBLICA

The company, always interested in suporting Colombian tourism, will continue with their intense operation to San Andrés from the most important cities in Colombia.

According to the press, the company will also start operating the daily MDE-CTG-MDE route in about a month, as a complement to their current twice daily BOG-CTG-BOG and daily nonstop CLO-CTG-CLO.

The company, just like Avianca, has started international services with the launch of their mid-year charter flights to Margarita Island, that will operate all throughout the high season.

As a side note, they have also redisigned their website. Check it out !.

http://www.aerorepublica.com.co/

--------------------------

All regional airlines, keep operating without major changes.

AIRES, for instance, as disussed already, is its process of rebovation. They just presented their new livery a couple of weeks ago and re-designed its website. http://www.aires.com.co/

West Caribbean Airways finished the construction of their new hangar in Medellin, their hometown. They are also opting for simplifying their imagine and name, opting for just plain WEST instead of the whole name.



Any comments or corrections are certainly welcomed.


SOUTHAMERICA

44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCasa235-300 From Spain, joined Jul 2002, 38 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4945 times:

Hi Southamerica

Thank you very much for the info. It's nice to see that the airlines industry in Colombia are continuing growing.

Have any update news about Avianca - Alianza Summa situation?

Kind regards


User currently offlineSOUTHAMERICA From Colombia, joined Dec 2003, 2497 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4919 times:

Have any update news about Avianca - Alianza Summa situation?

I believe that the time that Avianca has to present their definite re-structuration plan and investor elapses by the end of this month. You have to take into account that the judge himself said that the time could be extended as many times he wanted/needed. Let's wait and see.


SOUTHAMERICA


User currently offlineSOUTHAMERICA From Colombia, joined Dec 2003, 2497 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (10 years 5 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4879 times:

As a side note...

AVIANCA will increase its operations on certain routes, specially to the US.

The BOG-MIA-BOG flight goes from 1x daily nonstop 767-200 to an additional daily nonstop flight operated by a 757.

Equally, the CTG-MIA-CTG route goes from 2 x week MD-83 service, to a daily MD-83.

So the schedule for the summer season in the Colombia-Miami market for AVIANCA will be like this.


AV004 BOG-MIA 0700-1140 752 daily (summer flight only)
AV006 BOG-MIA 1050-1530 762 daily (year-round)
AV030 MDE-MIA 1010-1420 752 daily (year-round)
AV038 CLO-MIA 1055-1525 752 daily (year-round)
AV002 BAQ-MIA 0945-1330 M83 daily (year-round)
AV034 CTG-MIA 0845-1230 M83 daily (5 additional weekly services)

AV also offers one daily nonstop flight in the BOG-FLL route. Operated normally with a 752.

The JFK services remain untouched.
----------------

On the domestic horizon, some flights see changes too.

BOG-ADZ(San Andres Is.)-BOG goes from 1x daily MD83 to 2x daily MD-83 during the summer season.

MDE-CTG-MDE goes from 1x daily F50 to 3x daily F50.

MDE-SMR-MDE goes from 1x daily F50 to 2x daily F50.

Most of the shuttle services between the most important cities remain unchanged.



Again, comments and corrections are truly welcomed.



SOUTHAMERICA


User currently offlineTaca From Costa Rica, joined Feb 2013, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4847 times:

Hi SOUTHMAERICA!

Thanks for the information. I know that ACES is gone. What about SAM? Is AV the only member of Summa?

Do you know something about of a possible future agreement between CM and AV? Any news about it?

Once again, thanks.


User currently offlineSOUTHAMERICA From Colombia, joined Dec 2003, 2497 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4834 times:


TACA,

What about SAM?

Sam is still flying...


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Photo © Andrés Dallimonti Restrepo
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Photo © Andrés Dallimonti Restrepo



As you can see, they are pics taken just a couple of months ago. SAM, is something like the "low-cost & leisure" branch of Avianca, hence the almost identical livery. They operate a fleet of 5 F50s and 2 MD83s, in one-class configuration (AV's MD83s offer two-class config.)

These are the routes covered by SAM, although you can perfectly find their aircraft doing flights normally operated by Avianca once in a while.

BOG-CUC(Cucuta)-BOG
BOG-BGA(Bucaramanga)-BOG**
BOG-CTG-BOG**
BOG-VUP(Valledupar)-RCH(Rioacha)-BOG
BOG-ADZ(San Andrés Is.)-BOG
MDE-CTG-MDE
MDE-BAQ-MDE
MDE-SMR(Santa Marta)-MDE
MDE-CLO-MDE**
CLO-MDE-CLO
CLO-PSO(Pasto)-CLO
CLO-TCO(Tumaco)-CLO

That's about it. Maybe I missed one or two.


Is AV the only member of Summa?

Besides the brand, I don't even really know if Summa actually exists. I wouldn't make sense either because it mainly reoresented the alliance between ACES and Avianca. Anyway, after ACES shut down operations, they decided to keep the brand and logo until another decision is taken.


Do you know something about of a possible future agreement between CM and AV? Any news about it?

At the end of the month we'll see what happens. CO via CM presented their offer to inject some cash into Avianca under certain conditions, but nothing is definite yet.


SOUTHAMERICA




User currently offlineAV757 From Colombia, joined Apr 2004, 660 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4806 times:
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Enclosed you will find the operating fleet for SAM.

The future of MM is very uncertain after the dissolution of the disastrous alliance of AV, MM, and VX; "Alianza Summa" that started on May 20, 2002; and only lasted 15 months till it ended on August 21, 2003 after Aces defaulted.

SAM is a fully owned subsidiary of Avianca before and after the alliance, and now that Alianza Summa is gone; both airlines have returned to their original names.

The airplanes in SAM´s fleet are all leased by Avianca and are operated by SAM crews with permission and special operating permits negotiated from the leasing companies.

The fleet listed below was originally received and operated by AV.

Fokker-50
Reg, c/n, f/n, Powered by

  1. PH-AVJ, 20285, 185, 2 PWC PW127B

  2. PH-LXW, 20266, 166, 2 PWC PW127B

  3. PH-MXJ, 20288, 188, 2 PWC PW127B

  4. PH-MXT, 20300, 200, 2 PWC PW127B


  5. MD-83
    Reg, c/n, f/n, Powered by
  6. EI-CBS, 49942, 1799, 2 PW JT8D-219

  7. EI-CDY, 49948, 1905, 2 PW JT8D-219



    1. If anybody wants more complete details and listings on the fleets of AV, MM and Vx let me know, I will be glad to send you the information by email.

      The main creditors group of AV´s chapter 11 committee are working together, so far both offering groups CO/CM and Sinergy of Brazil are discussing and showing their financial, operating and long term restructuring plans for the airline, to see who gets to keep the company after judge Alan Gropper and the creditors select the best deal for AV´s future; we hope to see results this upcoming May 30. or otherwise there might be another extension of time to clarify proceedings.


      Regards:
      AV757









      [Edited 2004-05-13 03:13:14]

User currently offlineSOUTHAMERICA From Colombia, joined Dec 2003, 2497 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4798 times:


AV757,

Thanks a lot skipper for your input to the thread.


and now that Alianza Summa is gone; both airlines have returned to their original names.

Didn't the airlines agree from the beginning to conserve their respective names, and have separate brand to have in common (summa)? Please correct me if I'm wrong.


SOUTHAMERICA




User currently offlineAV757 From Colombia, joined Apr 2004, 660 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4763 times:
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The original "alianza Summa" was supposed to be an airline holding company to exploit and administrate under one roof the three differnt products, the three airlines were to conserve their respective brand names and identities and were to sell to the flying customer a customized product using all three airlines to satisfy all possible options for his travelling needs within a single travel package plan by Summa.

This included a single common reservation system, code sharing with the three airlines and one common joint venture for the Santodomingo Group 50%, and the Colombian Coffee Growers Federation the other 50%.

Avianca the flag carrier of Colombia with the national shuttle flights, the medium to long haul direct flight operations from the main cities of Colombia; and the majority of the international flights.

Aces was the option in the middle handling the majority of the short regional to medium haul flights from the secondary cities, with the direct international flights from these and as a feeder operation within Colombia.

SAM was to operate as the low cost carrier option to fill in the gap as a main line feeder for both AV and VX here in Colombia; to also cover all the charter operations and all the special priced all inclusive vacation programs within Colombia and San Andres Island.



User currently offlineTaca From Costa Rica, joined Feb 2013, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4746 times:

"This included a single common reservation system, code sharing with the three airlines and one common joint venture for the Santodomingo Group 50%, and the Colombian Coffee Growers Federation the other 50%."

-------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Captain:

One question: Is the joint venture between Brazilian Sinergy and the Colombian Coffee Growers Federation?


-------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry, another one.

Which is going to be the possible participation of CM (or CO) (or both) in AV, if the Judge approve it? This may sound a silly one, but what is going to be in your personal opinion the benefits for CM or CO?

-------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks.


User currently offlineAV757 From Colombia, joined Apr 2004, 660 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4713 times:
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Yes the joint venture of the Brazilian Sinergy Group is that they will have 75%, and the Colombian Coffee Growers Federation 25% of AV for the next three years. After that time they can sell off or continue in the alliance. The Santodomingo group wants to sell off all their assets and participation in AV.

In the Continental/Copa deal they want a complete ownership and control of AV.

The best offer and possibility of survival for AV in the long run would be CO/CM, from news given by “ACDAC” or the Colombian Airline Pilots Association; their offer and guarantees for the financial negotiations, debt payment plans (including the pilots pensions), and restructuring plans of the company this is the better offer so far.

Logistically speaking, the BOG and PTY hubs very well situated in the middle of the Americas, they are only one hour flying time from each other, the resulting combination of services possible and the route structure of AV and CM can be optimized and rationalized so both can be feeders to each other and complement each other to improve and open new gateways and better connecting flights. It also makes it possible to offer a broad choice of destinations, with convenient itineraries and excellent connection times, a reduced total flight time on our network, and minimum on-ground delays. The use of shared terminals and services will also guarantee a smooth passenger handling during connecting flights, and routing of baggage through our hubs.
Fleet wise both AV and CM with CO have commonality and a good working experience, since we all operate Boeing fleets within our route structures. Also in the future the rationalization of our fleets will bring enhanced operational economics for the companies.

In my personal opinion if this company is to survive, it will be mandatory to change the complete administration scheme of the company if we want to see real results from any restructuring project of the airline, the actual Summa administration (ex Aces) of the company right now backed up by the influence of the Colombian Coffee Growers Federation is to me the most determining factor in getting the company Avianca Inc. into chapter 11, and the defaulting of VX; under Sinergy they want to keep this scheme.

Under chapter 11 proceedings having its costs managed and approved by the creditors committee has made AV a viable and productive airline during the last year of operations. The operational results on the balance sheet of last year, show great expectations and good economic results for this year also.

I also think that here in South and Central America right now the three main aviation groups that show a promise and are making good progress are:

LAN group in South America conformed by LA, LP, LU, XL and 4M.

TACA group in Central America TA, LR, TPU

CONTINENTAL/COPA in the middle with AV can produce a very competitive group.

Regards:
AV757






User currently offlineTaca From Costa Rica, joined Feb 2013, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4695 times:

Thank you so much Captain!

I appreciate so much for the time you took answering me.

Once again, thanks.

Regards,


 Smile/happy/getting dizzy


User currently offlineAV757 From Colombia, joined Apr 2004, 660 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4677 times:
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Taca you are more than welcome, this is what Airliners.net is about; to find and see all points of view on this beautiful subject of aviation.

Regards,
AV757


User currently offlineSOUTHAMERICA From Colombia, joined Dec 2003, 2497 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4649 times:


Indeed, thanks a lot skip for the info.


SOUTHAMERICA


User currently offlineYULtoPEI From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 218 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4643 times:

Thank's all for you complete answer to this topic...

I'm not sure but I was thinking that the 2 MD-83 of SAM only fly on ADZ route. All time I flow SDZ-BOG it was with SAM... One time only BOG-ADZ we change plane for a MD-80 of Avianca because SAM EI-CBS a/c have some problem.

Regards
YULtoPEI



PEI in Colombia!!!. [Canon T2i]
User currently offlineJuanr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4630 times:

YULtoPEI:

No, SAM MD83s operates some other routes that do not involve ADZ, back in 2000 I flew on EI-CBS from MTR (Monteria) to BOG and they operate those MD-83 to Cucuta, Valledupar, Riohacha....

Juan
A Very Proud Citizen Of BOG
SKBO


User currently offlineACES320 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 393 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4622 times:

"We operate all Boeing fleets"

As far as I know, Fokker is not a brand of Boeing.

Before Summa was "created" we had this beautiful view in the Colombian skies.

* Aces 320
* Aces ATR-42
* Aces DHC Twin Otter
* Avianca 757
* Avianca 767
* Avianca MD 83
* Avianca Fokker 50
* SAM Avro RJ 100

After Alianza Summa "failed" what do we have?
A boring single fleet not worth to boast about.


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LHR, BHX, EDI, BKK, USM, CNX, PHU, GRU,PEI, BOG, CTG, CPH, AMS, DOH, DXB, FRA, MAD and always PEI
User currently offlineAV757 From Colombia, joined Apr 2004, 660 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4595 times:
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"We operate all Boeing fleets"

I´m not implying that there are no other types in the fleet, but the infrastructure of the three companies is basically and proceduraly aligned to Boeing school of operation. But here in Colombia the A320´s and the ATR-300´s had severe limitations with the average passenger baggage loads due to the historically large volume and small capacity of their cargo holds compared with the B757-200´s and the F50´s. Also the operating cost of the leases was extremely high and was non negotiable by Debis and Watermark which were the leasing companies for the airplanes.

For the monthly lease price of two A320´s we can rent three B757´s or four MD-83´s; and for one ATR we can rent three F50´s.

To make you happy the reliability of the A320´s and the ATR´s was very good and they are excellent and well built and designed airplanes but the Boeings, MD83´s, and Fokker 50´s are better workhorses, and since this a business the important fact is that they produce better cash revenue. Customer service and representation by the way is much better for Boeing than Airbus here in Colombia.

Also in Alianza Summa operation the B757-200´s have a much better payload capacity, and are better revenue producers from high altitude, high temperature airports as BOG, RNG, and UIO. They allow some cargo to be carried, the A320 only had capacity just for the luggage.


Here is a list of the aircraft types that were flown by the now defunct ACES for your information:
A320´s, B727-100/200´s, ATR42-300/500´s, DH-6-300´s, DH-114 Heron 2D (Saunders ST-27´s), F.28-1000´s,
FH-227B´s, F-27J´s and F-27F´s.
If you want the complete historical listing with registrations nad serial numbers, let me know and I shall gladly e-mail it to you.

AV757


User currently offlineGordon Werner From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 20 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4579 times:

so ... does anyone know if Continental's bid for Avianca is going to be accepted? and if so what their plans are for Avianca as well as Copa?

Personally I think it would be a great fit ... aircraft, experience with Latin America, etc ... Avianca/Copa/Continental would be one hell of a partnership!

G


User currently offlineTaca From Costa Rica, joined Feb 2013, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (10 years 5 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4556 times:

Gordon Werner

A Judge's decision is expected is this regard by the end of May.


User currently offlineAV757 From Colombia, joined Apr 2004, 660 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (10 years 5 months 15 hours ago) and read 4509 times:
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Answering ACES320´s reply number 15:

To start out, I was one of the few people here at AV that had a vote of confidence and approval for the creation of "Alianza Summa", since there was a lot of resistance from the employees of all three companies.
I have worked for 25 years now at AV, in the Flight Engineering Operations department and flying as a captain of the Boeing 757/767.

It is very sad to see a 31 year product that managed to become a house hold word here in Colombia go down the drain and disappear like Aces did. And the worst part to actually manipulate and use public media to convince the Colombian public and employees of a fake image of a reality that was not actually occurring within the company with deceitful misinformation.

If we took the best of the three airlines that made up Alianza Summa; AV 84 years, MM 57 years and VX 31 years. The total amount is 171 years of aeronautical experience under one roof. Aces was number one in passenger service here in Colombia with their slogan "por el respeto", no doubt about that; Avianca had technologically and operationally a more advanced engineering, maintenance, flight training, reservations, world wide office infrastructure and facilities under its roof in place; and Sam even though a subsidiary of AV had its goodwill and dedicated faithful followers.

It is a shame that what resulted was the proliferation of the worst defects and faults of the three airlines under the Aces management team, out of nine vice presidencies only two; flight and ground operations were left to Avianca making it a minority group when it came to vote on major operational and logistical decisions.

So today Aces is dead and gone, Avianca and Sam are hanging on a thin thread for survival. And the Alianza Summa finally buried after 2 years has left 3800 jobless.

My personal opinion was then; if we could have capitalized all the good operational aspects and benefits of all three airlines experiences with good common sense; the result would have been something to be proud of and ponder about here in Colombia and the Latin American aviation industry.

The original "Alianza Summa" was supposed to be an airline holding company to exploit and administrate under one roof the three different products, the three airlines were to conserve their respective brand names and identities and were to sell to the flying customer a customized product using all three airlines to satisfy all possible options for their traveling needs within a single travel package plan by Summa.

This included a single common reservation system, code sharing within the three airlines and the operational plan for the three was to be the following:

Avianca as the flag carrier of Colombia with the national shuttle flights, the medium to long haul direct flight operations within the Americas and Europe from the main cities of Colombia; and the majority of the international flights.

Aces was the option in the middle keeping its route structure and handling the majority of the short regional to medium haul and direct flights from the secondary cities, with their direct established international flights from these and as a feeder operation within Colombia for AV and MM.

SAM was to operate as the low cost carrier option to fill in the gap as a main line feeder for both AV and VX here in Colombia; to also cover all the charter operations, special low fare vacation plans and the entire special priced all inclusive vacation programs within Colombia and San Andres Island.

But that plan never got of the ground.

That is true that Avianca had economic problems and was not in the best of shape before Alianza Summa started, but it is also common knowledge now that Aces was in real dire straits before the initiation of the Alianza Summa and if it had not joined up to the alliance, it would have defaulted on June of 2002 according to their economic balance sheet of operations that was finally made public after it defaulted last year.

Also to make matters worse during the alliance, between December 2002 and January of 2003 all of Avianca´s main HARD cash (U.S. Dollars) producing routes were transferred to Aces by management to try to get their economic losses under control, CLO-MIA-CLO, MDE-MIA-MDE, BAQ-MIA-BAQ, CTG-MIA-CTG, BOG-MIA-BOG except for one flight operated by AV, were all operated by Aces A320´s. This created the cash flow that reduction at Avianca finally taking the company into chapter 11; and the costs of Aces´s operation were absorbed by Avianca until last march 21, 2003 when Avianca Inc. in NY entered Chapter 11 proceedings when the creditors took control and started managing the cash expenditure of expenses. Aces could not get any more ready cash or financial aid from AV and MM which caused its final blow and caused its default and going out of service on august 20, 2003 after only 15 months of Alianza Summa.

Avianca with its chapter 11 proceedings managed to renegotiate and lower its lease prices to almost a third less than before. Aces after many negotiations with the lessor companies on its part could not resolve a deal and renegotiate and lower their lease prices on the A320´s and ATR´s. Leaving very little space for survival and salvation of the company.

To give a real insight on the truth, reliability of the A320´s and the ATR´s was very good, both are from an operational standpoint, are excellent and well built and designed airplanes, they both served their purpose and were well liked by their passengers and their crews, including me. But the Boeing’s, MD83´s, and Fokker 50´s are much better workhorses and are much better adapted for this type of airline operation here; and since this is a business, and if it is to survive it has to produce good cash revenue.

Customer service and representation by the way is much better for Boeing than Airbus products here in Colombia. The A320´s and the ATR42-300´s had severe limitations with the average passenger baggage loads due to the historically large bulk volume and small capacity of their cargo holds compared with the B757-200´s and the F50´s. Also the operating cost of the leases was extremely high and was non negotiable by Debis and Watermark which were the leasing companies for the airplanes.

With the monthly lease prices of aircraft that Aces had from Debis and Watermark; for the lease price of two A320´s we can lease three B757´s or four MD-83´s; and for one ATR we can lease three F50´s.

Another major weakness the ATR´s and A320´s had was their performance restrictions and limitations at high altitude and hot temperature airports.

Also in Alianza Summa operation the B757-200´s have a much better payload capacity, and are better revenue producers from high altitude, high temperature airports as BOG, RNG, and UIO. They allow some cargo to be carried; the A320 only had capacity just for the luggage.

Here is a list of the aircraft types that were flown by the now defunct ACES for your information:
A320´s, B727-100/200´s, ATR42-300/500´s, DH-6-300´s, DH-114 Heron 2D (Saunders ST-27´s), F.28-1000´s,
FH-227B´s, F-27J´s and F-27F´s.
If you want the complete historical listing with registrations and serial numbers, let me know and I shall gladly e-mail it to you.

The main creditors group of AV´s chapter 11 committee is working together, so far with both offering groups for the company which are CO/CM and Sinergy of Brazil. They are discussing and showing their financial, operating and long term guarantees and restructuring plans for the airline, to see who gets to keep the company after Judge Alan Gropper and the creditors select the best deal for AV´s future; we hope to see results this upcoming May 30. or otherwise there might be another extension of time to clarify these proceedings.

The joint venture offer of the Brazilian Sinergy Group which has a small operational airline in Brazil; Ocean Air that operate some Fokker 50’s; is that they will have 75%, and the Colombian Coffee Growers Federation 25% of AV for the next three years. They want to keep the same administration policies for the mean time, and after three years time, they have the option to sell off or continue with their 25% in the alliance. The Santodomingo group wants to sell off all of their assets and participation in AV.

In the Continental/Copa deal they want a complete ownership and control of AV.

The best offer so far and the possibility of survival for AV in the long run would be CO/CM, they have large airline management experience and are knowledgeable of Latin American aviation. From news given by “ACDAC” or the Colombian Airline Pilots Association; their offer and guarantees for the financial negotiations, debt payment plans (including the pilots pensions), and restructuring plans, with a new administration of the company has so far been the better offer.

Logistically speaking, the BOG and PTY hubs very well situated in the middle of the Americas, they are only one hour flying time from each other, the resulting combination of services possible and the route structure of AV and CM can be optimized and rationalized so both can be feeders to each other and complement each other to improve and open new gateways and better connecting flights. It also makes it possible to offer a broader choice of destinations, with convenient itineraries and excellent connection times, a reduced total waiting time between connections and better usage of our network for the passengers to get to their destinations quicker, and minimum on-ground delays. The use of shared terminals and services will also guarantee a smooth passenger handling during connecting flights, and routing of baggage through our hubs.
Fleet wise both AV and CM with CO have commonality and a good working experience, since we all operate Boeing fleets within our route structures. Also in the future the rationalization of our fleets will bring enhanced operational economics for the companies.

In my personal opinion if this company is to survive, it will be mandatory to change the complete administration scheme of the company if we want to see real results from any restructuring project of the airline, the actual Summa administration (ex Aces) of the company right now backed up by the influence of the Colombian Coffee Growers Federation is to me the most determining factor in getting the company Avianca Inc. into chapter 11, and the defaulting of VX; under Sinergy they want to keep this scheme.

Under chapter 11 proceedings having all costs managed and approved by the creditors committee in NY has made AV a viable and productive airline during the last year of operations. The operational results on the economic balance sheet of last year, shows and promises great expectations and good economic results for this year also. Taking into account that petroleum prices are rising.

Now for some good and fresh news, last may 20 the shareholders had an emergency meeting and decided it was time to finally bury Alianza Summa for good, they finally changed all of the board of directors for Avianca getting rid of all the participating members of the Colombian Coffee Growers Federation and nominating a whole new board to create a much better work ambience for the negotiation process of the chapter 11 procedures in NY. I hope this means we are actually going to get some major changes in the administration policies of the company and maybe a better hope for a positive negotiation in the near by future, and maybe actually leave chapter 11 to become a sound airline making an operational profit.

This also means that Avianca Colombia, and Sam become once again the original airlines they used to be.

I also think that here in South and Central America right now the three main aviation groups that show a promise and strong survivability, and are making good progress are:

LAN group in South America conformed by LA, LP, LU, XL and 4M.

TACA group in Central America TA, LR, TPU

CONTINENTAL/COPA in the middle with AV can produce a very competitive group.

Best regards:
AV757



User currently offlineFlyinfroggie From United States of America, joined May 2004, 87 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (10 years 5 months 15 hours ago) and read 4485 times:

Thank you for such informative news, AV757.

I know this is trivial, but is there a plan to repaint the planes... again? Or do you think that we will be waiting to see a new design for when they are painted in white and grey, have a cafe penstripe, have "Avianca" in new letters, and with a blue tail and a new globe?  Big grin


User currently offlineAV757 From Colombia, joined Apr 2004, 660 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (10 years 5 months 14 hours ago) and read 4472 times:
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For now there is no definite plan on a new look or livery to paint the airplanes, we hope that a new administration comes soon to decide on that issue. As of May 20, the white circle that said “Alianza Summa” will be removed from our airplanes only keeping the Avianca Colombia and Sam Colombia names on the fuselages of our airplanes. It’s a shame that we still can’t get our Condor back on our tails to get rid of the ugly butterfly.

On my personal wish list, I would like to go back to our old retro-look livery for our fleet to celebrate our 85 years of continuous operation from December 5, 1919; making us the oldest airline still in operation in the Americas and the second oldest in the world after KLM founded on Oct of 1919.

A lot of people want to see the red and white livery once more.

View Large View Medium
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Photo © William Jenkins
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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Chris Coduto



Regards:
AV757


User currently offlineACES320 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 393 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (10 years 5 months 13 hours ago) and read 4449 times:

Going for the copy paste technique I have some comments on your opinion AV757.
1) I agree with you that Aces was number one in passenger service.
2) I disagree with you in calling Madrid, New York and Miami Avianca’s infrastructure as Worldwide Offices. I feel proud of AV but having offices in US and Spain doesn't make it a worldwide airline.
3) I agree that under Summa worst defects and faults proliferated, but disagree saying that it was on behalf of Aces' management team.

4) The original "Alianza Summa" was supposed to be an airline holding company to exploit and administrate under one roof the three different products, the three airlines were to conserve their respective brand names and identities and were to sell to the flying customer a customized product using all three airlines to satisfy all possible options for their travelling needs within a single travel package plan by Summa. I completely disagree with that and I include my reply to another thread.

Aces VX was the best airline Colombia ever had, and if it failed, was under the interests of Avianca AV. That's an unofficial public truth.

No point in discussing that current Avianca administration is the former Aces' one, that's also true. The best idea Avianca's shareholders figured out to rescue their struggling company (Read Julio Mario Santodomingo) was to call all the managers of their best competitor, namely Aces.

The plan was simple. "Well if you sink your company (Aces), you can have the control of mine (The biggest one in Colombia, Avianca) and try to make it up and sell it once is working on properly; you will manage a company threefold bigger than yours and be virtually the most important executive on the sector. If you fail you will still have a generous pension bonus scheme for you and your managers team; but if you success, you will have a stake in the final earnings, will be leading one of the best airlines in Latin America and if you are even more lucky, you will be named the CEO of the new company owned by a foreign airline and will belong to one of the biggest World Airline alliances (Namely, Sky team).

A guy like Juan Emilio Posada couldn't refuse an offer like that, I wouldn't.

Now let's consider the second scenario. Aces' administration and shareholders refuse to create this fake alliance called Summa in 2002. Under the steer of the worst lack of management during decades Avianca finally goes bankrupt. The remaining assets are sold to the best offer. Aces also it's at stake but being now the biggest Colombian airline, but with few bargaining power in the international air transport market. So it has two options, make a bid on Avianca debris or being sold to a bigger incumbent in the market."

If Aces is gone and Avianca is in chapter 11 it's not because of Aces' management team, it's because during years Avianca's shareholders have dismissed make a real commitment to the Airline and are more keen to support their beer businesses rather than air transport. On the other hand the Colombian coffee Growers didn't have other option either, for them it was gaining some or losing all.


Please check I previous information I posted on another forum on this issue
http://lanota.com.co/foro/read.php?f=66&i=2144&t=2144



5) The A320´s and the ATR42-300´s had severe limitations with the average passenger baggage loads due to the historically large bulk volume and small capacity of their cargo holds compared with the B757-200´s and the F50´s.

Again I have to disagree. The ATR42-300 were upgraded to the ATR42-500 version and then this limitations disappeared. As to the 320 we dispatched these airplanes in "our base" at Pereira PEI and we never had any trouble with baggage loads for the purpose they had. Indeed, if you are to compare them to the MD 83 the A320 it's a lighter aircraft thus allowing more cargo in the fuselage and lower parking costs. But if you compare them with the 757 as you do, then obviously you have more range, payload, passenger seating etc, but in that case you should better compare the 757 with the A321 and yet this would be an unfair comparison. The 757 it's an aircraft in an unique category and doesn't belong to a family as the 320. Despite it's commonality with the 767, stilll it's a different kind of aircraft with very particular characteristics and due to lack of orders its production ceased few months ago.

6) Watermark was an Aces’ wholly owned subsidiary established in Panama. If Aces didn’t get any arrangement to the leasing terms it’s because they didn’t want it themselves. As you can see Watermark is also gone now.

7) Why to change the Avianca’s administration as everything it has been developing as "planned" from the beginning by the shareholders? Regarding to the board change last 20th May was on grounds of legal interests and Mr. Posada is still the CEO of Avianca.

About the second airline in the world may be these are good news because eventually AV is to become the oldest operating airline in the world since the oldest, KLM soon will disappear under the steering of Air France… It reminds me of what happened to Aces under the control of AV.

Finally I hope the best for Avianca. Despite history and tradition it’s worth nothing in the business world Colombia deserves having a solid airline. I wish the best for Avianca and it's acquisition by Continental/Copa.



LHR, BHX, EDI, BKK, USM, CNX, PHU, GRU,PEI, BOG, CTG, CPH, AMS, DOH, DXB, FRA, MAD and always PEI
User currently offlineSoAmSky From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 310 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (10 years 5 months 8 hours ago) and read 4401 times:

"the actual Summa administration (ex Aces) of the company right now backed up by the influence of the Colombian Coffee Growers Federation is to me the most determining factor in getting the company Avianca Inc. into chapter 11, and the defaulting of VX"

If this statement is true, why is Juan Emilio Posada still leading Avianca/Sam?

"Aces was in real dire straits before the initiation of the Alianza Summa and if it had not joined up to the alliance, it would have defaulted on June of 2002 according to their economic balance sheet of operations that was finally made public after it defaulted last year."

According to the news when Aces went under, minor shareholders were shown positive balance sheets of the company before the debacle. If your statement is true, there was clearly wrong doing by management, and so, why hasn't Posada been FIRED?, why hasn't he been held accountable of all that mess?

Regards



Soar the blue of the South American Sky
25 Post contains images Juanr : I agree with SoAmSky and with AV757, I think Juan Emilio Posada will be remembered here in Colombia as our local Frank Lorenzo. By the way, just a jok
26 Post contains images ACES320 : SoAmSky He hasn't been fired because so far, he has done what he's supposed to do Do you see what I mean?
27 AV757 : That is right, Juan Emilio Posada has done his job perfectly, he has basically followed the script all the way to the fine print for the part he was h
28 SoAmSky : Hi ACES320, if you will, explain something to me I don't quite understand. AV757 states that Debis and Watermark were Aces aircraft lessors. You state
29 ACES320 : Two replies in one answer AV757. Avianca had a several branches spread all around the world. Just come to my mind Rome, Frankfurt, Paris, London, Los
30 SoAmSky : "It is true that Juan Emilio Posada 3 days before the termination of Aces showed the small investor groups of the company some economic balance sheets
31 ACES320 : SoAmSky I will answer that for you. Did you watch Betty La fea, The Colombian TV series? Well you can create as many balance books as you want. Every
32 SoAmSky : Hi ACES320, Thanks for your reply. I did watch Betty la fea. By the way, I remember, at that time, I read an article in El Tiempo news paper written b
33 Taca : Any news about the CO/CM/AV agreement?
34 Summa767 : Greetings to all! I don't want to get into the discussion as to the way the merger of the airlines into Alianza Summa was handled. My heartache was pr
35 AV757 : We have to wait till monday May 31 when the creditors committee will present their choice between CM/CO or the sinergy group offer at the chapter 11 p
36 SoAmSky : Does anybody have any news about the proto airlines Universal and Estelar?
37 Post contains links ACES320 : There would be a new extension to chapter 11 terms for Avianca. Avianca will submit a new request falling due next june http://www.lanota.com.co/notic
38 SOUTHAMERICA : In addition to the original information given, AEROREPUBLICA publicly announced the re-launch of their BOG-PEI(Pereira)-BOG service on June 15. The se
39 SoAmSky : Hi guys today, I saw the movie "The day after tomorrow". Well, the movie features the Avianca 707 crash in New York as one of the casualties caused by
40 LacsaA320 : SoAmSky I must see that movie pretty soon! Don't see any relation between both events, but is just... a movie.
41 SoAmSky : Hi LacsaA320, In the movie, the weather is changing rapidly, twisters spawn over Los Angeles, hail over Tokyo, deluge over New york,... And so on. Aft
42 LacsaA320 : Thanks again for your comments about the movie. I hope that Mr. Bush wasn't on board Air Force One when the big storm hits. (Sorry if you are Republic
43 ACES320 : SOUTHAMERICA Just want to add Aerorepública already operates the route Pereira-San Andrés-Pereira PEI on a 3 times a week basis. It's refreshing t
44 SOUTHAMERICA : Complementing to reply #38... AEROREPUBLICA just confirmed that from June 17, they will start operating the MDE-CTG-MDE route with one daily nonstop
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