Established02 From Belgium, joined Jan 2002, 536 posts, RR: 1 Posted (10 years 8 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 3017 times:
Back in the eighties I remember being fascinated by seeing pictures of CP AIR's massive operations at AMS. I remember seeing pictures with up to 3 or 5 orange CP planes simultaneously parked around a satellite type of terminal at AMS. Unfortunately the A.net database includes only a very limited amount of pictures of the CP operations at AMS.
I believe there must have been a commercial agreement between CP and KLM, with KLM being something like the European code share partner for CP AIR. Was the CP-KLM experience influential in bringing about the NW-KLM deal? Perhaps there were various ways in which these two alliances may have resembled each other.
How was AMS and KLM affected by the (sudden?) loss of a major operator during the early nineties? Perhaps traffic at AMS was booming anyway at that time such that the loss of CP pax and cargo was quickly made up by the growing traffic at other carriers.
LJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4495 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (10 years 8 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2918 times:
How was AMS and KLM affected by the (sudden?) loss of a major operator during the early nineties?
Not much, as you correctly mention business was booming. Moreover, it wasn't that we lost CP Air completely as they remained flying AMS-YYZ for a few years thereafter (as Canadian). If my recollections are correct the demise of CP (and later Canadian)'s operation was partially caused be the increassing number of charter airlines flying between Amsterdam and Canada. Martinair had at the time a sizeable charter program and I believe Worldways and Air Club also flew in the early nineties. Later on Air Transat (and later Canada 3000) entered the market and wiped CP out of the market completely.
Another reason why AMS became less important was because CP decided to fly direct to, for example, Frankfurt and thus the hub became less important.
Tango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3807 posts, RR: 28
Reply 2, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2803 times:
In looking at my CP Air Summer timetables from 1974 and 1981, it appears that AMS was, at most, a mini mini-hub for CP in the sense of online connection possibilities. The 1974 timetable shows onward flights from AMS to ATH and TLV only, with the notation of no traffic rights on CP between points within Europe and Europe-Tel Aviv -- meaning any pax carried AMS-ATH or AMS-TLV on CP would have originated their trip on CP from North America or South America (or possibly from SYD/HKG/NRT via YVR?). By 1981, their timetable shows only ATH as a one-stop European destination via AMS to/from Canada with no rights to carry local pax AMS-ATH-AMS.
It would have been altogether possible to see 3-5 CP Air aircraft at AMS during the Summer seasons of 1974 and 1981 because on various days of the week non-stop flights were opreated by CP between AMS and YUL, YYZ, YWG, YEG, YYC and YVR.
Aside from AMS, the only cities in Europe served by CP during their 1974 and 1981 Summer timetables were LIS, MAD, LIN/MXP, FCO and ATH. With the exception of ATH, CP's service bewteen Canada and these cities bypassed AMS. No codeshare flights or connections are indicated in either timetable although offline connecting flights are indicated from AMS to select European cities in the 1981 timetable.
Spyderz From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 651 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2745 times:
I could be wrong on this, but wasn't the main reason CP Air flew extensively to AMS was because it was one of the few European destinations that the Canadian government allowed CP to fligh to. Being state owned, Air Canada received the more lucrative rights to Germany, England, and UK. In order for CP to serve Europe they were required to consolidate operations in Amsterdam. When Canadian billaterals were liberalized, CP (Canadian) re-directed capacity to the larger destinations such as LHR, AB) (FRA / FRF / EDDF), Germany">FRA, and CDG.