Roberta From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 3, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 14440 times:
I'd say its pretty accurate
An 8-abreast medium-sized twinjet made in Asia.
Airbus looked at the 767 when they made the A332 and saw what it lacked, a decent cargo hold. Now Boeing have done the same.
Still not a very professional thing to say but accurate.
I do feel Boeing and Airbus have to match each others plane these days. Like the way Boeing dropped the -400 sized 737 when they made the NG's as Airbus didnt have a 734 sized A32X. now there's a gaping big whole between the 73G/A319 and the 738/A320
Gearup From Canada, joined Dec 2000, 578 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 14398 times:
This is disapointing that he would use such a term. He may have offended our Chinese friends (I hope not), by implying that there is something inferior about it and linking it to a fine Nation and People.
7E72004, I think every new aircraft is a gamble to a degree, I am glad there are folks at both Airbus and Boeing that are willing to take these gambles because without them we would not have many of the fine aircraft we have today.
Sabenapilot From Belgium, joined Feb 2000, 2712 posts, RR: 48 Reply 6, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 14332 times:
We are at a major sales event, what do you expect...???
Besides, let's face it...
Despite the hype Boeing is trying to create (all the ads and such), the B7E7 is mainly intended as a replacement plane for the B767 segment, it is NOT going to change aviation as some here seem to think/believe/hope.
Also isn't the B7E7 for a great part Asian?
9V-SPF From Germany, joined Sep 2001, 1375 posts, RR: 3 Reply 7, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 14323 times:
I feel a flamebait floating this board once again...so please, people, remain civilized
Like I said in another thread, people shouldn´t take those sometimes immature things business managers are spitting out about their rivals too seriuosly. It´s just like in politics. No one will tell the public what he is really convinced of but rather what he thinks will get him or his party the most votes.
In economy, managers will tell the public what they feel will boost share prices the most, no matter if it´s right or wrong.
If Forgeard did really say that, it won´t prevent the 7e7 from becoming a fine airplane that will find a lot of customers, just as certain remarks from Seattle will hardly have any influence on A380 sales.
Anthsaun From Mexico, joined Apr 2004, 544 posts, RR: 3 Reply 11, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 14057 times:
If this guy says the B7E7 is a copy, then he must be aware that Boeing started designing and building airplanes decades ago before Airbus, so this means everything made by Airbus has being copied from Boeing so far.
Also, I see the B7E7 as a very original airplane to substitute an old model, the B767. Believe me, the A330 is not competence at all, just look at the sales results.
I really wish airplane designers were more creative. When the design for the B-Sonic was out I thought it was about time for something different, but the technical aspects were not good enough. So now let's wait for another 10 years at the least for something looking up into the future.
Brons2 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2981 posts, RR: 5 Reply 12, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 13933 times:
A vs B aside, I can't see how using what amounts to a racial slur against the Chinese being productive in Airbus' Chinese sales campaigns. It's a very ill-advised and politically incorrect comment.
On a side note, he didn't even get the country right-it's Japan's heavies that will be building major structural portions of the 7E7. Not to say China didn't get some work on the aircraft, but Japan has the bulk.
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
As739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 5930 posts, RR: 22 Reply 13, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 13880 times:
Sabena...what are you talking about the 7E7 not changeing things? Its going to have 20 percent less fuel burn, much longer range for thin long routes, all new composite design. No that doesn't sound like a change! (sarcasim)
Not to seem one sided either, the A380 will change aviation as well. Both products coming out will change aviation.
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
Leskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 71 Reply 20, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 13536 times:
Anthsaun, Airbus wasn't just created from scratch - a lot of European Aerospace companies with decades of history were integrated into Airbus, so while you're technically correct in saying that Boeing was building planes long before Airbus started, the roots of Airbus are far older than Airbus itself.
As for the comment being discussed here - if he did say it, it was a very dumb thing to say.
Putting down your competition's planes is one thing (read reply 7 by 9V-SPF for more on that), but I don't think it's a wise thing to use the name of a country that you're trying to sell planes to, even if it was "just" a figure of speech.
Cwapilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 1166 posts, RR: 18 Reply 21, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 13480 times:
LOL Leave it to this guy for real winner statements. This goes beyond the ridiculous, if true. And, well, let's see....look at some old (even pre-"MD12")McDonnell Douglas renderings in some older AW&ST issues, and you will find that the A380 is, in fact, also a "Chinese Copy."
Southside Irish...our two teams are the White Sox and whoever plays the Cubs!
FoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2903 posts, RR: 5 Reply 23, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 13286 times:
Forgetting the unfortunate implications of using the adjective "Chinese", let's look at the facts. What exactly does the 7E7 have in common with the A330 other than its 2-4-2 seating configuration? Two wings, two engines and a tail? As if the composite fuselage, faster crusing speed and larger windows weren't enough, just the swappable engine feature alone would be enough to substantially differentiate the 7E7 from the A330. And believe me, that feature is going to be HUGE, since it will boost resale values dramatically. The added flexibility will be a major advantage for the big leasing companies (ILFC, GECAS, etc.) in particular.
If the 7E7 is a copy of the A330, then the A320 was a copy of the 757, the A340 was a copy of the 707, the A330 was a copy of the 767, and all of the above were copies of the DC-3. Believe me, I have nothing against Airbus--they make fine aircraft that can hold their own against anything Boeing produces--but I kinda wish Forgeard would stop shooting his mouth off for a while. Comments like this just don't sound very intelligent.
Zoom767 From Canada, joined May 2004, 42 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (9 years 7 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 13084 times:
The yahoo.de article seems to claim (according to my extemely rusty German and to an almost incomprehesible auto translation) that Forgeard didn't mean the 7E7 was a pirated technical copy but that they were so similar that one might as well stay with the original (they give no quote for this interpretation).
However he did indeed use the term "chinese copy" in english.
Perhaps someone better equiped then me could translate this paragraph:
Dass Boeings «Dreamliner» 7E7 mit der japanischen All Nippon Airways einen potenten Kunden gefunden hat, tat Forgeard locker ab. Er verglich den bislang erst auf dem Reißbrett stehenden Flieger mit der bereits fliegenden A330-200 und zeigte auf der Großbildleinwand, dass die 7E7 ein bisschen kleiner ist. «Chinese Copy», nannte er sie, Raubkopie also. Damit wollte er vermutlich die US-Konkurrenz nicht des Abkupferns beschuldigen, sondern nahe legen, dass man auch gleich beim Original bleiben könnte. Auch Forgeard weiß, dass Flugzeuge aus technischen, ökologischen und ökonomischen Gründen heutzutage kaum große Unterschiede im Design aufweisen können.
[Edited 2004-05-11 18:58:07]
25 Warren747sp: If I am a star salesman for Boeing. I would make damm sure that all Chinese Airline companies get a copy of the above statement (properly translated i
26 Ushermittwoch: Hey Zoom, your German is pretty good. Your translation is basicially right on.
27 Zoom767: Two beginner's courses at university (more years ago then I care to admit), but I've had very few chances at practicing it subsequently. I certainly c
28 WhyNotTu204: Amazing - though I get the impression that if translated the statement would be somewhat softer, I am still a bit at a loss when it comes to his arrog
29 Lehpron: With regards to any Airbus vs. Boeing thread in any regard in and of itself: Either Airbus is naive or Boeing is desparate. If both, we have a problem
30 Ubidenmark: We have all lent a wholly undeserved dignity to Foregard's reported crass remarks by responding to them. Based on Boeing's approximately fifty years o
31 ChrisNH: Also in the news is Airbus' lament that it's doing lousy in Asia, pointing out that ANA bought the 7E7 without even requesting a brochure from Airbus.
32 Ultrapig: Ushermittwoch- 7e7 vs 330 Nich alle esel haben vier beine- Ja?
33 Ushermittwoch: Dude, if you don't understand IRONY you most certainly are the ass here.
34 IBERIA747: Always the same kind and polite person from Germany... I am sorry for the rest of my good German friends
35 Ushermittwoch: Hey IBERIA, as you do not understand what Piggie wrote, I will translate for you: "Not all asses have four legs. Yes?" So, can you please explain me h
36 Udo: What an arrogant and ignorant statement. Of course he is nervous about the B7E7's upcoming success and therefore he talks pure nonsense. I hope Chines
37 Pelican: I can't see why this statement is racist. "Chinese copy" is a widely used term referring to the relevance of copyrights in China - nothing more. Nonet
38 Ultrapig: Ok my use of German not well done- I believe that the idiomatic translation of Nich alle esel haben vier beine means "You can't tell a book by its cov
39 Red Panda: It is absolutely politically incorrect. Repeating the goods and improving bads are what an aircraft needs. What is wrong with copying the goods from o
40 7E72004: Seems like the 7E7 vs. A380 is becoming more of a contest than the presidential election!
41 Col: First Bethune with the stinky 380 pax, now Foregard, with even more stupidity. What we should do is have a weekly prize for the most stupid comment fr
42 CODC10: Chi·nese cop·y noun exact copy: an absolutely exact copy of an original, including any mistakes or defects it happens to contain from the MSN Encart
43 Cwapilot: You can copy dictionary definitions all you want. It doesn't matter...all that matters is how it is perceived. As you may recall, a US Senator or Cong
44 Roberta: It always makes me laugh when people start taking competitive trivial little comments seriously. As far as im concerned there is not a lot more fun th
45 Phxinterrupted: Wow, what a stupid statement. Sounds like a man who is scared.
46 OPNLguy: >>>I do feel Boeing and Airbus have to match each others plane these days. Like the way Boeing dropped the -400 sized 737 when they made the NG's as A
47 Col: The 738 has a couple more seat rows than the 734. It makes it more competitive to the 320. Still think the weekly contest for stupid statements would
48 Vanguard737: ROBERTA: Above you claim "744=A80" how the hell ius the 744 Boeings answe to the A380 when the 380 hasnt even flown yet???????? That Airbusdork is jus
49 Prebennorholm: It's unbelievable how many a.net'ers don't know the term "Chinese copy". What about: French fries Irish coffee Dutch roll Russian roulette Italian tur
50 Eddieho: Guys, His remarks are nothing but remarks that are made when competition is stiff!!! This happens many times, including: - Politics - Intel vs. Athlon
51 Roberta: VANGUARD737 Above you claim "That Airbusdork is just scared of Boeing, let him to his bad mouthing if it makes him less scared of Boeing superiority.
52 RIX: "Despite the hype Boeing is trying to create (all the ads and such), the B7E7 is mainly intended as a replacement plane for the B767 segment, it is NO
53 Northwest717: I think that such statements are not thoroughly thought through and are very unprofessional. Just as Boeing made it's statements about their disappoin
54 Ruscoe: The 7E7 is obviously starting to hurt 330 sales. Ruscoe
55 Prebennorholm: The problem is that in the USA Boeing is considered "the lighthouse" of innovative American industries, and that is with very good reason. Commenting
56 AvObserver: "Why on earth would Airbus be scared of Boeing and their 7E7, if the 7E7 hasnt even flown yet." Possibly because Boeing has a great track record of de
57 Usatoeze: If the range on the 7E7-200 ends up being well over 8000nm as Boeing predicts, Airbus would have a reason to be scared. This could mean that if an air
58 Roberta: Hardly similar to the decent range of a very good airplane the 332, which by the way still should have beaten the MD-11 in the survey. give it a break
59 Mrniji: Roberta, I like your sense of Humor, espc # 51!...
60 Usatoeze: give it a break the Md-11 has to win something> It would win if the category was "Shortest time from production to Victorville" or "Hardest widebody t
61 Blackbird1331: It is rumored that you work for Airbus and own lots of stock in the company. Is that true? If so. Will you marry me?
62 Gigneil: Like the way Boeing dropped the -400 sized 737 when they made the NG's as Airbus didnt have a 734 sized A32X. now there's a gaping big whole between t
63 Akumas: Personally, I wouldn't call it a 'copy'. I think Boeing is just 'attacking' back against the A330, with their 7E7. It's competition really. After all,
64 AvObserver: "if you read reply 48 and 51 you'll notice i wasnt asking you AvOb" Roberta, I wasn't trying to be rude by horning in on your argument but I had to co
65 Northwest717: Roberta, I have a great deal of respect for you, but I believe that this forum was created so that people could voice their opinions. When one speaks
66 BOEING787: I see an apology from him to the Chinese Aviation authorities soon........
67 SQ452: Think if i were Chinese I would take that as an "insult" by the Airbus guy. I think he meant, "pirated copy" and could have been worded a lot better t
68 Carnoc: Well, no-one actually knows how this is going to 'develop'... But, one thing for sure, some Chinese officials don't like that term as I have already g
69 Ckfred: I know enough about salesmanship that when one starts making disparaging comments about the competitor's product, then the product must be pretty good
70 Stefandotde: Ckfred - LH was a loyal customer for Boeing for years, LH till 1975 had an All-Boeing fleet. So: Airbust must be pretty good then Maybe the same reaso
71 UAMAYBACH1239: Only Airbus can make a Chinese copy, Boeng created the 767 , an not from a previous Airbus model.
72 Elwood64151: An 8-abreast medium-sized twinjet made in Asia. I think there are a lot of people in China who would take offense to your characterization that Japan
73 BoingGoingGone: Why on earth would Airbus be scared of Boeing and their 7E7, if the 7E7 hasnt even flown yet. Because the benfits and potential are real.
74 Spyglass: Hmmm....been away from this forum for a while...I see nothing's changed. Still a lot of heat and very little light about anything...Foregard said what
75 N79969: Apparently Airbus is worried and they would be stupid not to be. They know Boeing puts out very well designed and built airplanes. Airbus has spent th
76 Backfire: Oh, and when can we start calling the 7e7 the 787? Never! It'll be the 808 Don't count your chickens just yet, either of you. Boeing's 7E7 programme c
77 Skymileman: Boy, Airbus is sure arrogant assuming that Boeing is copying them. Those two fight worse than a couple of little kids. "A chinese copy". Not the case
78 Stefandotde: Yes, we now all know: Boeing builts the best planes and that is why A fears B a lot. But sorry, it's little strange to hear that we Europeans are arro
79 Mrniji: StefanDote, mein Frankfurter Freund und hoffentlich Eintracht-Anhaenger!! Let's take facts... who produces and sells more aeroplanes... C'mon guys, st
80 Cx123: So the 7e7 are not Made in USA anymore?? How sad!!!! What will happen to the Seattle plant?
81 LY4XELD: Cx123 Who said the 7E7 will not be made in the US? Boeing spent a good amount of time searching for a production site for the 7E7 and, if I'm not mist
82 RIX: "Airbus is sure arrogant assuming that Boeing is copying them" - absolutely. Poor Stefan.de, don't be so sorry ...
83 AA777: Eh... everyone naturally fears the competition. the 7e7 is probably going to be a hit with the airlines, after all, it has amazing fuel consumption, a
84 Mark777300: I rarely pay attention to what anyone says from both Boeing or Airbus. It doesn't make a difference what they say, in the end, the airlines will come
85 HA_DC9: I hope you're wrong, Roberta...808 sounds like an area code! 808 is an area code....for the state of Hawaii.
86 KEESJE: Leaf out the cosmetical nose & tail of the 7e7 and you see pretty much a A330. However airlines don't care, they look at price, performance, capasity.
87 BoingGoingGone: Keesje... Give up your jibberish. Please. Boeing react to Airbus? Man. History revision is fun eh??? The 300 was a direct development to compete with
88 BoingGoingGone: Just a thought.... I think I'd rather have my 7E7 called a Chinese Copy of an A-330 after a peoples who have dignity and honor, rather than my A-320 b
89 LY4XELD: KEESJE, I agree with BoeingGoingGone...you're flat out wrong in your information! The 777 program was launched in 1990 with an order from UAL. The 757
90 YUL332LX: The 300 was a direct development to compete with the DC-10/L-1011. No it was not... American Airlines wanted a twin engine widebody. Airbus built it,
91 Soaringadi: ha !! And my boss calls the 380 a french copy of his pregnant wife !!! Looks like Airbus boss sure has taken some lessons in playing the "kids' game".
92 DfwRevolution: ...what makes you think that the A300 was developed for AA? Not the A300B2, but Airbus was desperate to sign a North American customer for the A300-60
93 Blackbird1331: Wouldn't it have to have a stamp on it that says "Made in China"? Everything I pick up in the stores do.
94 YUL332LX: So yes, 767 sales fell after the introduction of the A330, but it did not "dominate" it in anyway. DfwRevolution, BoingGoingGone was refering the 330
95 DfwRevolution: So, since the first 332 was built (not ordered, built!) the 332 has dominated the 767 First of all, aircraft are launched upon their first order, not
96 YUL332LX: First of all, aircraft are launched upon their first order, not their first flight. Try again. You misread post 90. I used right from the beginning th
97 RipleyD: I think it is correct to say that the A332 killed the 767. But I also think it is extremely unlikely that the A332 will come anywhere close to the num
98 HlywdCatft: **Bring back the days when each aircraft manufacturer had unique aircraft, is what i say.** When was that? The 1970s? DC-10 and the L1011 The 1960s? D
99 DfwRevolution: I used right from the beginning the word "Built" as a reference and I don't care whether you like it or not. You selected another date and that's fine
100 Vfw614: How about looking at "new orders" instead of overall orders which include repeat business an aircraft launched 17 years later than the Boeing 767 cann
101 Mrniji: DfwRevolution, why can't you just admit that both are good aircraft? Both the B767 and the 330 - while one has served brilliantly in the past and will
102 Roberta: If you want domination go check out the 777, which has sold 283-frames more than the A340-all variants. well you have to consider the A333 which is al
103 DfwRevolution: How many NEW customers, i.e. airlines that have not been using Boeing 767s in the past, has Boeing won with the 767 since the A330-200 has been aroun
104 Roberta: Maybe Airbus will finally offer an A330-200F They are http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1515582/4/ As for the 767, altho
105 Archie Bunker: A343 A333 A345 A346 = 535 orders 772 772ER 773 773ER 772LR = 633 orders so the difference is actually only 98 Umm, that's quite a lot missy, especiall
106 Roberta: Umm, that's quite a lot missy, especially for an aircraft that was launched years later than the A330/340. not really about a 5:6 ratio, or 18%. and 3
107 YUL332LX: I don't care if you cannot understand the concept of launching a new product. The "launch" is when the aircraft is officaly available for order, has r
108 Carnoc: Well, well, well, seems Airbus wants to ignore the comment of 'Chinese Copy' said by their boss (keep playing games with their Chinese customers and g
109 A330Jamaica: If I were Fouregard, I would be worried too. The market for airliners is going to shrink in the next decade and will not be able to handle two new typ
110 Shenzhen: DFW, I agree with your statistics. I say we start the competitiion on, say Jan 1, 2004. A330-200, negative 9 orders vs 2 for the 767 and 50 for the 7e
111 BoingGoingGone: The 300 was a direct development to compete with the DC-10/L-1011. No it was not... Um... Check your history. ...what makes you think that the A300 wa
112 YUL332LX: Do a google search. I'm certain you'll find something. What I will find is that the A300 was NOT built for AA. Talk about history revision…
113 BoingGoingGone: Sorry bro. Did a paper on this many a year ago when the information was fresh and readily available.