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Southwest PHL Loads  
User currently offline7E72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3587 posts, RR: 2
Posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4963 times:

How have the first few days been for the PHL loads on Southwest?


The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
75 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineInnocuousFox From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2805 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4877 times:

The first day's loads were covered in another thread. You can find it.


Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
User currently offlineSWAFA30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4817 times:

Here are the pax loads for Sundays Flights. After the city pair, the first number is the total passengers on board, the second is the aicraft capacity.

OUTBOUND

#741 PHL-MDW... 119/137
#1080 PHL-MCO... 128/137
#723 PHL-TPA... 120/137
#2953 PHL-PHX... 132/137
#1101 PHL-MCO... 131/137
#327 PHL-MDW... 120/137
#1638 PHL-PVD... 137/137
#422 PHL-PVD... 117/137
#978 PHL-MCO... 130/137
#1233 PHL-PVD... 44/137
#1165 PHL-MDW... 65/137
#777 PHL-LAS... 120/137
#2294 PHL-PVD... 42/137

78.8% Load Factor Outbound


INBOUND

#877 MDW-PHL... 41/137
#2953 PVD-PHL... 105/137
#985 MCO-PHL... 134/137
#1638 TPA-PHL... 127/137
#422 LAS-PHL... 130/137
#978 PVD-PHL... 36/137
#1233 MDW-PHL... 131/137
#643 MCO-PHL... 127/137
#777 PVD-PHL... 27/137
#1508 PVD-PHL... 42/137
#628 MCO-PHL... 82/137
#879 MDW-PHL...96/137
#2075 PHX-PHL... 112/137

66.8% Load Factor Inbound

72.8% Load Factor Overall

For comparison sake WN posted a 2nd quarter profit on a quarterly system load factor of 64.2%.

March 2004 LF was 73.6
April 2004 LF was 76.2



[Edited 2004-05-11 21:56:59]

User currently offline7E72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4802 times:

thanks for that summary  Smile seems like they are doing pretty good...it will be interesting to see what happens when they do the "1st expansion."  Big thumbs up


The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
User currently offlineFlairport From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4767 times:

for those of us who do not know load % very well, how is that? How does it compare to WN normal loads? Is that good for day 1?

User currently offlineSWAFA30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4759 times:

for those of us who do not know load % very well, how is that? How does it compare to WN normal loads? Is that good for day 1?


For comparison sake WN posted a 2nd quarter profit on a quarterly system load factor of 64.2%. March 2004 LF was 73.6%, April 2004 LF was 76.2%.


User currently offlineCapitol8s From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 97 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4752 times:
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Looks like WN will do well at PHL

Were there any major problems for the WN PHL ops with all the wx and ground stops due to flow control into PHL on 5/9 which I believe was inaugural day for WN ???



"Happiness is a flight on a Capitol Air DC-10"
User currently offline7E72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4735 times:

In my opinion even if there are ground stops, etc...Southwest can still load and unload a plane in 20-30 minutes...the flight itself may not take off on time...but turnaround times, in my opinion, deal with how fast a plane can be prepped once in the gate and then turned around for departure.


The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
User currently offlineZrb2 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 895 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4699 times:

From an article in todays Washington Post:

"Still the airport (PHL) has more work to be done. Its runways are too close together for Southwest to maintain its 20-minute flight turnarounds, says John Minor, head of Southwest's Philadelphia operations.
That means Southwest won't be able to operate simultaneous takeoffs and landings. So the carrier is working with the airport to build parallel runways. In the meantime, Minor said, the airline built in extra time between flights."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A15953-2004May10_2.html


User currently offline7E72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4668 times:

One question: WHere could they possibly build a parallel runway at PHL??


The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7511 posts, RR: 24
Reply 10, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4588 times:

One question: WHere could they possibly build a parallel runway at PHL??

There presently is one conceptual plan that would involve modifying Hog Island Road (yet again) and relocating UPS in an effort to aquire more land for an additional parallel runway. There would also be some landfilling involved.

Extending 8-26 eatward is out due to the Goliath crane at the neighboring Kavaerner Shipyard. The height of the crane would penetrate the imaginary (Part 77) aircraft approach surface if the runway were extended.

[Edited 2004-05-11 22:56:14]


"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineInnocuousFox From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2805 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 4540 times:

I'm dying to know how the runway config affects the 20 minute turn.


Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
User currently offline7E72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 4513 times:

good question...i was wondering the same thing  Smile


The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7511 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 4475 times:

The parallel runways are currently spaced too close together for simultaneous take-offs and landings.


"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineInnocuousFox From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2805 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 4435 times:

"The parallel runways are currently spaced too close together for simultaneous take-offs and landings."

I understand that... but that has nothing to do with turning the aircraft. Park/unload/clean/load/push - done.



Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
User currently offlineDeltaMD11 From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 1701 posts, RR: 35
Reply 15, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 4396 times:

Obviously you don't get to PHL much Innocuous. You park, unload, clean, load, push, and then sit on the ground while you literally have a traffic jam congregating on the taxiways with aircraft coming from 4 different directions trying to get to one runway. The use of runway 35 will be beneficial to WN's operation here, however they're still going to experience delays trying to get onto 27L.


Too often we ... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - John Fitzgerald Kennedy
User currently offlineSWAFA30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 4388 times:

I'm dying to know how the runway config affects the 20 minute turn.

I've got the raw data but it will take some time to piece together the aircraft flows and construct the actual turn times for Sunday's flights. I'm headed out for the evening but I will try to work on it this evening and post the info late tonight or early tomorrow. An Ops agent or Dispatcher with OTIS access might be able to collectand post the data more quickly than I. If noone else chimes in I will see what I can do.


User currently offlineInnocuousFox From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2805 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 4351 times:

"and then sit on the ground while you literally have a traffic jam congregating on the taxiways with aircraft coming from 4 different directions trying to get to one runway."

I understand taxi delays. However, that is techincally NOT part of a 20 minute turn. The turnaround is the time between the arrival time and the departure time.

That IS one of the reasons, though, that WN avoided larger, more crowded airports whenever possible. For all airilines, longer taxi times are included in the published flight time - NOT in the turn time.



Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
User currently offlineDeltaMD11 From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 1701 posts, RR: 35
Reply 18, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 4321 times:

Just to illustrate my point a little further, this is a picture (yes...it's out of focus just a tick but it gets my point across). This was late morning probably about 11:30 or so and it's far away from the big morning and evening pushes were it gets really hectic. There are about 4 aircraft that you can't even see in this shot that were in the queue to the left waiting to get out of here. Not to mention 27L begins at about where Terminal A East is and WN has to get all the way to 27L from Terminal D-the line of traffic to the left of the picture, that's what all WN birds will face trying to get out of here. Believe me, I do it often, you do spend a lot of time on the ground here at PHL waiting to get up there. I count 9 birds in that picture. 8 on the taxiways and one lined up to roll and theres four that you cant see which were to the left.




Too often we ... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - John Fitzgerald Kennedy
User currently offlineInnocuousFox From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2805 posts, RR: 14
Reply 19, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 4299 times:

And yet, that's not my point at all. The article seems to have used the incorrect term. (Didn't we just have a thread bitching about the media covering aviation?)


Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
User currently offlineSWAbubba From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 154 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 4239 times:

InnocuousFox-

You are correct. The turn times at PHL should be the standard 25-30 minutes just like the rest of the system. The planned flight times (which include taxi time) will be longer to compensate for the extra taxi time.


User currently offlinePHLapproach From Philippines, joined Mar 2004, 1240 posts, RR: 20
Reply 21, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 4188 times:

A friend of mine "WindowSeat" told me that SFO's runways are very close, yet they are able to do simultaneous parallels. I guess there is just a tad more room between 28R and 28L at SFO then 27L and 27R at PHL.

Chris, Do you think if the "2020" plan to make the new runway on the left of 27L were to be completed, they would then switch approach traffic over to the "New 27L"?

Bryan, was that photo above, one from when you guys were over atop the A- West Garage? That photo does very much show how congested we are.


User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5692 posts, RR: 52
Reply 22, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 4143 times:

I dont understand how having close parrallel runwats will not allow simutaneous landings? they will never criss cross and they can land at the same time? I would think itd be faster and more efficent to have those types then corssings because landing and takeoffs will never intercept each other. please explain why its bad.

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7511 posts, RR: 24
Reply 23, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 4097 times:

Chris, Do you think if the "2020" plan to make the new runway on the left of 27L were to be completed, they would then switch approach traffic over to the "New 27L"?

Ed (PHLapproach),

I was able to fish out an old Philly Inquirer article showing the Parallel runway alternative. This might answer your question.

The plan calls for a new 10,000 foot runway built south of the existing 9R-27L. Construction of this runway would involve the relocation of UPS, relocation of the control tower, relocation of the airport's fuel facilities, placement of landfill, and either a realignment of Hog Island Road or H.I. Road would no longer be a continuous road.

If you plan to be at the May 23rd PHL spotters' meeting, I can bring the article and the diagram.
The plan also calls for a 1,500 ft. extension of the existing Runway 9R-27L and a relocation of existing Runway 9L-27R south of its present location. The existing 9L-27R would then become a taxiway.

The plan also calls for a 600 ft. northern and a 1,340 ft. southern extension of Runway 17-35.



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineMD11LuxuryLinr From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1385 posts, RR: 14
Reply 24, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 4080 times:

They do infact perform parallel approaches to 27R and 27L almost every night, when it gets really busy. Sometimes they're landing on 26 and the 27s at the same time. That's always fun to watch..

As far as simultaneous departures, why not? I know that all aircraft have to turn 15 degrees (at the most) to the south after departure off of the 27s, but the majority are turned to the N/NW to MXE and PTW anyway. Nowadays, there are many that turn to the south. 27R traffic can depart and turn north, while 27L traffic can turn south. I know it's a bit more complicated than that, but it was just a stupid thought.

If they do add another runway to the south of 27L, I think it would be a departure runway heading west and an approach runway to the east (like 9R/27L). The reason is they don't like traffic flying over land, be it in PA or NJ, when they are low, for noise reasons (ever hear a pilot request 9L and get refused? I have, many times always because of 'noise abatement'.). Another runway south of 27L would require traffic to fly over houses at low alt on approach, thus pissing people off. Departures to the west would still be over water for the most part.


Edited because I'm so stupid  Big grin




[Edited 2004-05-12 02:13:21]


Caution wake turbulence, you are following a heavy jet.
25 DeltaMD11 : And that's why I have no pity for people that move in next door to airports and complain about noise. If it was my call I'd say tough shit.
26 Post contains images PHLapproach : I see it the same way, Amen to that.
27 Post contains images MD11LuxuryLinr : Heh.. My Grandmo lives about 2 miles from the airport. 27L arrivals fly directly over her house. She, like me, loves planes. She never complains about
28 As739x : Anyone know the seperation of the 2 runways? SFO is 750 ft., PHL can not be that much closer then that! I'm lost on how this effects a 20 min. turn, l
29 DCA-ROCguy : Preach it, Delta MD11. And thanks for the cool picture. I've sat in more than one US plane in a line like that one waiting for 9L. (Last time, there w
30 Post contains images PHLapproach : Chris, I knew all that info on the project and I have seen diagrams. But I would love to see that article very much. I just spent 10 mins looking for
31 ScottysAir : I can tell you something about PVD flight and those load factors was only few people flight today and it is not enough for the customers need to get R
32 Post contains links and images InnocuousFox : SFO's runways (both pairs) are far closer than any other simultaneous pair in the country. From what I understand, they have a special exemption that
33 *HighFlyah* : Pardon me for raining on the parade, but isn't all that detailed load factor info on the first day of PHL ops at WN somewhat confidential and propriet
34 InnocuousFox : (I don't think it would be... but I'm guessing)
35 TxAgKuwait : As far as traffic between PHL and PVD is concerned..... Rome wasn't built in a day nor was BWI to PVD an instantaneous standing-room-only affair.....
36 Post contains images 7E72004 : When Southwest starts the new round of flights in July, will that put its four gates to capacity? If so, what if they want to add more flights?? I hav
37 Ramerinianair : SWAFA30, Can you get me the load factors for tues 5/11 and wed 5/12. I want to see this information because you have to average the week-ends which ha
38 PHLapproach : 7E72004 - WN is currently only using 4 gates. But two years ago the city financed 4 additional gates to be built on at terminal E, the gates are expec
39 Usairways85 : People have said that with the 4 gates WN currently has at PHL they can operate 40-45 flts. After their second increase in flts during July they will
40 COEWR2587 : I'm glad WN is doing so well in Philly.
41 7E72004 : If they did have to relocate the terminal building to accomodate a new runway, wouldn't that cause a HUGE MESS?? THey just got done with the new inter
42 US653 : One thing about simultaneous landings at PHL. Someone may remember (or may be able to add as well) the new ATC system that the FAA installed here that
43 PHLapproach : Yea, I pretty sure it was STARS that PHL was the first to implement back in I think '99 (I think im wrong, can anyone recall the year) I remember we h
44 DCA-ROCguy : If they did have to relocate the terminal building to accomodate a new runway, wouldn't that cause a HUGE MESS?? THey just got done with the new inter
45 PHLBOS : Allow me to chime in with regards to the diagonal runway alternative from the 2020 project: 1. 2 new runways (11L-29R and 11R-27L) would be built sout
46 Usairways85 : The more likely project is building the 3rd parallel runway partially in the Delaware. Building the diagonal runways is a logistics nightmare: attempt
47 7E72004 : I don't see that happening...wouldn't the cheaper and more logical way be to turn PNE into a commercial service airport again?
48 PHLBOS : I don't see that happening...wouldn't the cheaper and more logical way be to turn PNE into a commercial service airport again? The main issue here wou
49 7E72004 : i see what you are saying. can't they just start o/d at PNE..it has been done before with other airports when a second one gets built.
50 InnocuousFox : "The main issue here would be someone flying into PNE but their connecting flight is at PHL or vice-cersa. [snip] Should commercial/commuter service w
51 PHLBOS : Uh... no kidding? Why would people even BOOK a flight that had something like that in the middle of it? Doesn't this kinda go in the 'no-brainer' cate
52 PHLBOS : i see what you are saying. can't they just start o/d at PNE..it has been done before with other airports when a second one gets built. If 8-26 and Ter
53 7E72004 : I guess on question is, how big is PNE...could the runway handle jet aircraft? is there/would there be enough room to build a terminal with gates?
54 Aa757first : How is US Airways doing with WN down their backs yet. I hope so much that they pull through... AAndrew
55 Post contains images PHLBOS : I guess on question is, how big is PNE...could the runway handle jet aircraft? is there/would there be enough room to build a terminal with gates? 7E7
56 Post contains images PHLBOS : One also needs to keep in mind that the earlier-mentioned 2020 expansion plan that DMJM Aviation did for DOA dates back to 1999 A correction to my ear
57 SWAbubba : I went through PHL for the first time yesterday. Loads were about 70% inbound, 100% outbound. 4 minutes taxi time inbound, 10 minutes from push to tak
58 7E72004 : Would it be more expensive to convert PNE into a commercial airport again or to expand PHL with the relocation of the terminals and runways??
59 PHLBOS : Would it be more expensive to convert PNE into a commercial airport again or to expand PHL with the relocation of the terminals and runways?? Initiall
60 7E72004 : Very true..i guess we will see what we will see. I would expect that by the end of the year we will have a good idea of what will happen to US.
61 7E72004 : a little bit off the subject but i was looking on the PHL website at the flight info..and it looks like WN is using only E-8 and E-10...is that the ca
62 PHLBOS : a little bit off the subject but i was looking on the PHL website at the flight info..and it looks like WN is using only E-8 and E-10...is that the ca
63 7E72004 : I thought they did away with the a,b and c...??
64 PHLBOS : I thought they did away with the a,b and c...?? Nope, WN just replaced the jet bridges while the terminal space was being renovated (10 seats from the
65 7E72004 : Do they have it set up like the one that used to be at MDW in the old terminal..the baseball theme gate??
66 PHLBOS : Do they have it set up like the one that used to be at MDW in the old terminal..the baseball theme gate?? I believe that there is a sport's theme near
67 Post contains images 7E72004 : i am tempted to take a day trip to PHL so i can see the WN jets there
68 PHLBOS : i am tempted to take a day trip to PHL so i can see the WN jets there Jeremy(7E72004), Your profile lists your home airport as IND can you get a decen
69 Post contains images 7E72004 : i just looked on WN's website and they have fares as low as $79 each way...i think i would stay over the night because i would not have a lot of time
70 PHLBOS : I didn't realize until I just checked WN's website that they do indeed serve IND. That being the case, do what you must.
71 Post contains images 7E72004 : they serve about 10 cities directly from IND Just not phl yet
72 7E72004 : BTW..does Southwest have the boarding where there are "3 lanes" to line up in and each one goes one at a time in PHL?
73 Rthrbeflying86 : E10 has 3 branches: E10a, E10b, & E10c. WN is using all of these plus E8 fro a total of 4 gates. Actually, I'm pretty sure WN changed that a bit. When
74 PHLBOS : BTW..does Southwest have the boarding where there are "3 lanes" to line up in and each one goes one at a time in PHL? 7E72004, When I arrived from my
75 Post contains images 7E72004 : thanks..i think i will be taking a trip out there
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