Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Elections In India - New Civil Aviation Policy?  
User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3987 times:

Hi...

India has elected, and it looks like the Opposition will form the new government.

- What are the implications on the civila aviation policy? Will the attempted open sky policy start or is it a return to stringent regulation? What is the outline for the old opposition (Congress) civil aviation policy?

- What about the fleet renewal of AI, IC? Will new planes join the fleet soon or will 'Laloo and colleagues' stop the new deal?? What is the stand of the major politicians on this??

Thoughts appreciated...

I personally think that the open sky policy won't be stopped... it looks like things will be continued, with a delay in the fleet renewal plans...

39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUnited777 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1657 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3971 times:

I know I don't answer your question but this is a REAL shocker. Let's hope the new govt' keep's India going in the right direction & do more with AI & IA.

User currently offlineIndianguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 3937 times:

All fears of returning to the "Old Order" are unfounded and are based entirely on the negative propaganda of the Fascist BJP.

Facts first: It was the COngress that began economic liberalisation, and it was a Congress Govt, NOT the BJP, that proposed and implemented "Open Skies-1", a programme that was conceived by Rajiv Gandhi and was mentioned in the Congress manifesto of '91. A promise fulfilled. Also to be noted, is that the SEVEREST critic of the "Open Skies" policy was the BJP and their ally Shiv Sena (which controls most of AI's trade unions).

The aim always was to get into the process of liberalization in a step by step manner. The Congress had already planned out a "Open Skies-2", under which international routes would also be opened up to competetion from Indian carriers. This promise could not be kept becuase the Congress was then voted out and the BJP with its *ahem* Bhajan Mandali came to power. Now that the people of India have decided to kick out the incompetent BJP Govt., the country will finally see implementation of the "Open Skies-2". However, the COngress policy calls for maintaining state ownership of IC upto a level of 51%, and in AI upto 26% (so as to retain veto control). The congress also will not allow "strategic sale" route or sale to a foreign airline. but on the up-side, the Congress govt shall soon be making domestic carrier IC, one of the "Navratna" PSU's, which will mean that IC will be free to make operational and financial decisions (subject to a maximum financial outlay) autonomously. AFAIK, Air India is not to be incuded in the new list of PSUs to be included in this scheme, which includes some Oil cos.

Lets get this str8: "Open Skies" was the Congress policy implemented in 1992, when the BJP, when not bitterly opposing the Liberalisation process, was bringing down Mosques and planning pogroms against the Muslims. If anything, the BJP and its allies were responsible for the slowdown in the reforms process in the aviation sector. Thankfully, the Congress is back, and now we shall see a speeding up of the reforms process in Aviation.

-Roy


User currently offlineVoodoo From Niue, joined Mar 2001, 2077 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 3933 times:

Will Alitalia get more landing rights?  Laugh out loud


` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 3917 times:

Thanks Roy for the info. SInce I am abroad, I am not always aware what went on in India. Of course I was aware that Mammohan Singh started the liberalization process... my expectations are technically the same, i.e. continuing the liberation process and, as you said, an OS II policy.

Only thing which worries me a little is the hung government, with some allies in the coalition (RJD etc) who could oppose the fleet evaluation (and maybe the open sky policy). That's why I have some fear that things could stagnate. What do you think about this fear? Or is it rather unjustfied?

Waiting for further inputs and expectations...


User currently offlineBOEING787 From India, joined May 2004, 158 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 3901 times:

Looks like good times ahead for Air Sahara with the new govt. in place.......if y'all know what I mean...........!

User currently offlineIndianguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 3896 times:

The RJD is actually the most stable ally the Congress has. As long as the Cong leadership agrees to lay off Bihar, they will be happy, and I doubt he cares a rats ass about Civil Av.

The real worry for me is from the CPM. These buggers have opposed the "Navratna" scheme in the past, though considering what they are doing in Bengal, I think even they have come over to our way of thinking.

And now that the BJP i in opposition, I am certain they are going to oppose liberalization in all its forms, incl. civil aviation.

-Roy


User currently offlineIndianguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 3886 times:


Looks like good times ahead for Air Sahara with the new govt. in place.......if y'all know what I mean...........!

No, we dont know waht you mean.

Subroto Roy is pretty well connected as is every Airline CEO in the country, from Jet Airways to Air Deccan.

His sons weddings were attended by every politician from the RSS/BJP and there was hardly any Congressman in sight! So where does that leave your theory?  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

-Roy


User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3844 times:

Well, Alitalia is introducing new service to Delhi!  Big grin

Surprising results, but I'd much rather have Manmohan Singh handing the economy again than an NDA coalition on shaky legs.

As far as aviation policy goes, I tend to agree more with the Congress' "consider the ramifications and then act" policy rather than Vajapayee's latest ideas of unilateral open-skies and throwing everything to the wolves. A careful and studied public-private partnership in the aviation sector can only help the country.

The key of course will be who gets the Civil Aviation portfolio. If its handed over to some Communist to pacify them, then we might as well just bend over and pray it isn't too painful. If it gets handed over to a legitimate person, one rumor even had Rahul Gandhi's name floated although I'm not so sure how I feel about that yet, there really shouldnt be any change.

And yes, I'll say it. Congrats Roy.  Smile


User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3801 times:

Indeed Sean, there is the chance that Manmohan Singh will be Prime Minister (which is my very preferred option and something I was waiting for years). In that case Indian Aviation could be backed by an appropriate policy-framwork with, as you express nicely, a good public-private partnership

I think it is very likely that the civil aviation ministry will itself be managed by congress because the relevance of this sector has become more and more important.

I think the dynamic of Indian aviation is accellerating to quickly to stop it, since it would be counterproductive

Let's hope our best for India and the people!!


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3780 times:

"Facts first: It was the COngress that began economic liberalisation, "

Facts first: It was the IMF that INSISTED on economic liberalization. India's FOREX reserves were about to vanish if this didnt happen.

Second: the Congress only has about 220 seats - and Indian politics can change around overnight if the BJP indulges in the usual "foreign hand" BS (ironically started by the Italian bahu's evil mother in law.

As far as Indian aviation goes, can you imagine the Congress doing ANYTHING to take on Air India's unions? Sean, correct me if I am wrong, but arent the AI unions controlled by the Shiv Sena?


User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3780 times:

arent the AI unions controlled by the Shiv Sena

What isn't controlled by the Shiv Sena in Mumbai?


User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3765 times:

I would wonder if the fact that the Shiv Sena controlled the unions would be an obstacle to AI's growth... in the present order, trade unions power (unluckily) is about to decline

Jaysit, correct that the IMF insisted, but still the Cong showed a consistent policy of economic liberalization in the aftermath, which was taken by successive governments. And we should not forget that the 'package which rescued India' was presented by Manmohan Singh to the IMF (big concessions like deposit of major gold reserves to IMF etc...) - Right, the IMF demanded structural changes, but Singh offered the correct policy


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3748 times:

Well, can you imagine if one of those CPI, CPI(M) dimwits becomes aviation minister?

While the Soviet Union and China have rid themself of communist jingoism, Indian communist parties still parrot the usual hackneyed nonsense, while their leaders send their own kids to Harvard/Ox-bridge, etc.


User currently offlineIndianguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3675 times:


Facts first: It was the IMF that INSISTED on economic liberalization. India's FOREX reserves were about to vanish if this didnt happen.

True. Partly.

The "Open Skies" policy was NOT an IMF demand. The new Civil-Av policy, calling for pvt airlines then called "air-taxis", was first conceived towards the late '80's before the Bofors storm broke. Atleast give credit where its due.

As for whether the Govt will take on the SS goons at AI's unions, i say, why even bother. The Govt should go ahead with OS-2 and liberalise the international aviation. The Gov tmust first ensure that the money accrued through lease of bilaterals goes to the Govt exchequer and NOT to Air India, becuase it is Govt property. Pvt airlines, with atleast 76% Indian ownership, must be allowed on to international routes on a region by region basis. First, SAARC, then West and Southern Africa, ASEAN ,Middle East and finally Europe/NA.

A bidding system must be adopted for bilaterals, the money going to the Govt. AI could be given first preference on bilaterals, but they too would have to pay the Govt for using the biaterals.

TO be fair to AI, perhaps AI could also be bought under the Navratna scheme, and given operational and fiscal autonomy.


Well, can you imagine if one of those CPI, CPI(M) dimwits becomes aviation minister?

Historically, most Left wing govts have been more proactive in reforms that right or centrist parties. The TDP which ruled Andhra for the past 9 years was also part of the Left block, but they were certainly at the forefront of the reforms process. And seen what the CPM is doing in Bengal? IBM is shifting to Kolkata dude! SO i dont see any reason to worry. Atleast, the CPM is the cleanest of all the political parties

-Roy


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3648 times:

"Pvt airlines, with atleast 76% Indian ownership, must be allowed on to international routes on a region by region basis. First, SAARC, then West and Southern Africa, ASEAN ,Middle East and finally Europe/NA."

Why?
Most Indians travel to the Middle East and Europe/NA.
Why subsidize Emirates, Gulf Air, Lufthansa, and Singapore Airlines at the cost of IC, Jet, and Sahara? What kind of policy is that? Who the hell gives a sh*t what the traffic is between Bombay and Abidjan or Accra? The real moolah is to be made between Bombay and San Francisco.


User currently offlineA340roy From Germany, joined May 2004, 50 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3583 times:

Hey desi-airliners, am glad this thread is on and we can get more info here than samachar.com!!!

I would wonder if the fact that the Shiv Sena controlled the unions would be an obstacle to AI's growth... in the present order, trade unions power (unluckily) is about to decline

I agree, the trade unions "were" about to decline, but sadly, the staff of AI are bloody well connected. Esp. in bom, shiv sena practically controls petty matter. It would definitely be a + + situation for ai if it could get rid of most trade unions, esp the aicc(air india cabin crew assoc). Everytime one talks about "saving" money or cutting ccosts in ai, the union doesn't agree, reason given, why should we suffer!! i mean, we are in 2004....and not back in the 70's & 80's where things were ok...no stringent competition in india...ai were the kings! Now with the Congress seemingly to be ruling for sometime, it is difficult for a nationalist party like them + their alliances to break the trade unions, without understanding the need of the airline to cut costs...and we all know, the major cost of the airline are overpaid underworked staff.




AR-FRA
User currently offlineBOEING787 From India, joined May 2004, 158 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3573 times:

Hay Jaysit

Your worst fears may come true - the headline from Mumbai's afternoon paper MID-DAY:

BSE sheds 344 points by noon
By: PTI
May 14, 2004
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
New Delhi: Led by public sector undertaking stocks, the Sensex witnessed a historic intra-day fall of 344 points at mid-session on the Bombay Stock Exchange (BSE) today after the Left parties, including CPM and CPI, said the disinvestment policy of NDA government be scrapped.

The Sensex which commenced better by 10 points in the morning, plunged by 344 points at 5055.21 by 12.30 pm after reports of Left parties saying the disinvestment policy harmed the country seriously and "disinvestment in IOC and BPCL should be scrapped".


The wide-based largest Nifty index also nosedived by 150 points at 1567.50 on panic selling.







User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3538 times:

There is already another statement by prosperous Finance Minister Manmohan Singh...

They haven't even started, and the market drops alrealy... I mean it is really exaggerated - and I don't believe it ir right to put oneself under pressure due to this


User currently offlineIndianguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3526 times:

Boeing787: The rising and falling of the sensex has nothing to do with this particular discussion.

Markets want stability, because economic reforms need a stable govt. When the news of the NDA Govt falling came in there was panic selling, but that was because the markets felt that we are in for a period of instability. But once the markets saw one alliance gaining a firm majority, the markets JUMPED back.

If you were trying to make a point that the market crashed becoz they wanted the BJP, remember that the markets had lost 400 points in 1996 when Rao lost the election and the BJP came to power.



Why?

Its not about subsidy Jay. But bilaterals owned by the Indian govt should be open to carriers owned and run by Indian nationals. The figure of 76% is because any entity owning more than 24% has veto power in that company.

This is not to say that Emirates (or others) cannot operate to India. Ofcourse they can, but on bilateral quotas of their respective countries.

A340roy:
IC also had union problems but they were dealt with firmly. Dealing with Unions requires a firm management hand. Fortunately the situation at AI is much better than what it was because they now have a more assertive management. But there are still troublemakers like one Mr.Abraham Thomas among others. I am sure Sean also knows what I am talking about. But if the management stays firm, I dont see why they cant be dealt with. The Shiv Sena interferes because the management LETS them interfere.

-Roy


User currently offlineA340roy From Germany, joined May 2004, 50 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3499 times:

hey roy, agree compeletely, a strong mngt wud not even care what connexions who have...when they know that sth is not right for the co...they shud stand by it..whatever it may take...which lacks with ai...to some extent, but thanx for giving me a broader view, like ic have more probs with unions.

all i was sayin that when the civil aviation ministry goes to a communist coalition party...its difficult to break unions...just my view...me cud b wrong...



AR-FRA
User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3433 times:

To put some rumor: the following citation is from the TOI on the new Civil aviation ministry:

Ghulam Nabi Azad who is credited with overseeing the Andhra comeback as well as the Congress' success in J&K may be seen as a choice for civil aviation with parliamentary affairs


Does anyone know him (which party)? Would he be a good choice??


User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4785 posts, RR: 43
Reply 22, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3409 times:

Are any of the current Gandhi family members that interested in commercial aviation like RAJIV was? He was too the main man behind the big IC A 320 order in the late 1980s!!!

User currently offline22right From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 420 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3394 times:

With regards to the (surviving) Gandhi family members, one hopes they would have at least taken enough interest in aviation to realize they could use it to leave the country when they could have...... now Sonia must live for the rest of her life waiting for the family curse to claim her (and her children)!

No one would wish upon such things but I think this political family has started a series of new chapters in their tragedy (and greed) filled, melodramatic lives!




"I never apologize! I am sorry, but that's the way it is!" - Homer Simpson
User currently offlineTexdravid From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1355 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3367 times:

I pray that the Gandhis keep their noses out of the fledgling private sector in India, the same private sector that the Congress hammered for so many years when they were the ruling party.

Secondly, I fear that the Congress is going to INCREASE regulation in Indian aerospace, and find ways to throw more money to AI (never worked) and harass and impede companies like Jet Airways.

If I was the CEO of Jet Airways, I would be very scared right now!



Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
25 Jaysit : I'm sure that the CEO of Jet Airways, Sahara, etc have the necessary Congress coalition members firmly in their pockets by now. The old rascals may ha
26 Mrniji : Secondly, I fear that the Congress is going to INCREASE regulation in Indian aerospace Why should they do that? Do you have any basis for your assumpt
27 Indianguy : Ghulam Nabi Azaad was the Civil aviation Minister earlier as well int the previous phase of reforms. Decent administrator, and a good choice, though I
28 Indianguy : the same private sector that the Congress hammered for so many years when they were the ruling party. Secondly, I fear that the Congress is going to
29 B747-437B : I fear that the Congress is going to INCREASE regulation in Indian aerospace, and find ways to throw more money to AI (never worked) and harass and im
30 Mrniji : just FYI, the media repeatedly reported that the civil aviation policy will continue to be liberalized amongst other sectors (general liberalization i
31 Mrniji : just FYI, it is not unlikely, as I read in the media, that Rahul Gandhi will take teh Civil Aviation ministry since his mother now declined to be Prim
32 Indianguy : guess the Naresh Chandra Report will - when it is put into effect - probably be implemented in one piece) Uh, I hope not! The Naresh Chandra report i
33 B747-437B : The Naresh Chandra report is one of the most badly written commitee reports. Thats an understatement. It reads like something a 12-year old would turn
34 Mrniji : Just to draw your attention on the following article SIA awaits new (Indian) govt's aviation policy
35 B747-437B : The new Minister of State (Independant Charge) for Civil Aviation will most likely be Praful Patel of the NCP, a close confidant of NCP leader Sharad
36 Indianguy : I am not too happy with the choice. Prafull Patel is much, much better than some of the other names I had been hearing, but still I would have preferr
37 Jaysit : Air India's accountant and politician created profits for 2003 do not negate the fact that it has bled tax payer money for years. If it weren't for Ai
38 Mrniji : The new Minister of State (Independant Charge) for Civil Aviation will most likely be Praful Patel of the NCP Very well anticipation, Sean, it is offi
39 Post contains links Mrniji : Just to draw your attention to the following article: New path for civil aviation (The Hindu Business Line) http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2004/0
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Civil Aviation Policy Of The New Indian Government posted Sun May 23 2004 12:23:58 by Amrish
Revision In India-New Zealand Bilateral posted Fri Nov 18 2005 08:30:01 by Himmat01
India's New Stringent Hijack Policy posted Sun Aug 14 2005 12:47:21 by AirIndiaOne
Transparency In India's Civil Aviation Ministry posted Thu Oct 20 2005 20:24:54 by TKMCE
Plan For New Aviation Authority In India posted Wed Feb 9 2005 18:13:05 by Aseem
Aviation Job Scenario In India posted Wed May 31 2006 14:58:58 by FlyHigh@Tom
Aviation Magazine In India posted Fri May 5 2006 06:04:11 by AirIndia
Is Civil Aviation In FSU Dead? posted Sat Nov 5 2005 23:18:07 by Concentriq
Career Opportunities In Civil Aviation? posted Tue Sep 6 2005 00:17:33 by YoungFlyer
Paramount Airways - New Airline In India? posted Thu Mar 3 2005 20:13:11 by Nimish