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Disappointed In DFW!  
User currently offlineTexdravid From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1355 posts, RR: 0
Posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3188 times:

As a new member, I have been reading all of the posts, and something stood out to me. I grew up in North Texas, near DFW, and liked watching in the late 70's all of the Braniff 747's taking off for many European destinations.

Now, 30 years later, what has DFW become? A land of AA MD-80's and Delta RJ's!! For such an INTERNATIONAL airport, why does DFW have the following?

1). Very few foreign airlines. Look at Intercontinental or Atlanta. They have KLM, AF, etc. DFW has BA and LH, and Korean is only 3X week!! Big deal!! And AF left soon after 9/11, never to return.

2). No 747's. Gosh, even Phoenix and Denver have BA and Lufthansa 747's respectively for goodness sake. And very few widebodies anyway.

I am a big DFW fan, obviously, but I feel that my hometown airport has really fallen behind the other majors when it comes to #1 and 2. Why? Do you think the new international terminal will help?
Thanks,
I remain, Jealous in DFW!


Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNWB757300 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3162 times:

correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't AA and DL major international carriers?

Also BA and LH are pretty big too....

[Edited 2004-05-14 08:46:19]

User currently offlineLHcapt2007 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 235 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 3118 times:

EVA Air, China Airlines Cargo, UPS, Atlas Air, Singapore Cargo, Korean Air Cargo all 747s @DFW.

Yes of course LH A343s,other wbs MD-11s(China Eastern C,UPS,EVA), DC-10s(FedEx,World Airways,Omni Air), DC-8s(ATI,UPS,ABEX,BAX), Plenty of 777 action and of course lots of 767s, Sabena A32s back in the day, I'd be pretty happy.

Yes we know what you mean but look at its central location, where a few major foreign carriers already dominate with the int'l market now. Central location makes it prime for a major hub, most stops are within MD80 reach.

I would really make a lot more spotting trips to DFW if pax heavies were flown out of DFW but maybe QF will open the door someday? And so much for Air France's tease.

Yes definitely disappointed, a super80 and RJ invasion, but at least there's a lot of action.

Cheers,
LHcapt2007






TNCM
User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5824 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2972 times:

Yeah, I like MD-80s a lot... but I agree, it'd be nice to have more variety.
Rumor has it that AirFrance may return, and Qantas was rumored to come in with their new 777-200LRs, which they didn't ever order. But now that the rumor is that they'll order A340-500s, maybe they'll bring their European inefficiencies out here.
Oooh, that was a cheap, CHEAP shot.
 Smile
R


User currently offlineJmy007 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 598 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2924 times:

Be Happy that DFW serves many, many, points in the North America, South America, Europe, Asia. Even if it is with AA and the super 80  Smile




Cookies are the Gateway pastry. They lead to Éclairs and Bear Claws.
User currently offlineJaydavis From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2000 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2894 times:

You've also got to remember that DFW Airport is AA's "Bitch" !!

The DFW Airport Board is NOT going to do anything that "truly" upsets the "Silver Monster" !! You might see Air France and Qantas and possibly some new Asian carriers actually operate passenger service at DFW, but AA has DFW Airport by the balls.............



Jay


User currently offlineAa61hvy From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 13977 posts, RR: 57
Reply 6, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2836 times:

A little bitter are we Jay  Big grin


Go big or go home
User currently offlineSaigonhouston From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 398 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2820 times:

We will have China Airline and PIA pax service next month at Intercontinental IAH. Also, Saudi Arabian cargo has already in Houston weekly service now.

< http://www.houstonairportsystem.org>

Saigonhouston


User currently offlineGSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3037 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2717 times:

The DFW Airport Board is NOT going to do anything that "truly" upsets the "Silver Monster"...
With the current shaky condition the major carriers are in, I would think that wouldn't necessarily be the case. AA has WAY too much invested in the Dallas/Ft Worth region to be able to threaten anything...



Finally made it to an airline mecca!
User currently offlineBartond From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 790 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2697 times:

I totally understand what you mean by being jealous of these other airports for spotting purposes. It's just one of those things - ATL is simply the only really large airport within hundreds and hundreds of miles in the Southeast, so everything runs through it down in that area. That will bring carriers like AF, KL, SAA for connecting pax. DFW is the largest hub of AA but American has two major hubs in ORD and MIA that get all the Oneworld carriers, so no luck there. QF will be our only real hope of getting another Oneworld carrier in here, and I continue to hope they bring WHATEVER kind of plane to DFW. We're just in a tough spot geographically to lure foreign carriers in here. IAH has a huge CO operation but their foreign carriers come for one obvious reason - the black stuff under the ground. They'll continue to get carriers there because of it, too.

Us DFW-lovers talk about this all the time, how we want more foreign exposure here. It may come but it will take quite a bit of time, will take the new int'l. terminal being built to suit international travelers, and some nasty good marketing by the airport/city. I say QF comes one day, if nothing more than to alleviate some of the pressure off of LAX for connecting pax, and we'll get another Asian carrier to start up service. Hopefully Eva or JAL. But an ORD or MIA we'll never be. Sux.


User currently offlineSsides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 20
Reply 10, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2669 times:

As a big DFW fan, I also understand the disappointment. I'd love to see a couple more international carriers (CX, QF), and some 747 pax service, but given the state of the airline industry, the markets just aren't there. IAH has more international service because Houston is a much more international city -- it has Shell, Exxon, and just about every other major oil company you can think of (giving IAH the global reach that these companies require). ATL is simply better situated geographically for international flights -- although I'll take DFW over ATL any day (better facility, better dominant airline).

We DFW fans, while disappointed in the variety, should be happy that we have such an awesome airport. From DFW, you can fly just about anywhere you'd want to go in North American nonstop. You've also got great access to Europe and South America. So what if most of it's on AA. Just listen to the MSY, MKE, and CLE fans on this board -- we have a lot to be thankful for.



"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
User currently offlineCitationJet From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2438 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2642 times:

30 years ago when Braniff had 747s to Europe, there were not many European carrieris flying non-stop to Europe. Braniff didn't fly to that many European cities.
Today, however, DFW has non-stop service to many European cities, and also non-stop service to South America, which didn't exist with Braniff.



Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
User currently offlineWorldAV8R From Poland, joined Feb 2004, 57 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2615 times:

Welcome to the new era! What can you say, 'it is not like it used to be'.

I remember, growing up in STL, going to the airport to watch the daily afternoon arrivals of the 747 from HNL and CDG. It was a treat to see the C concourse full with L10-11's and 74s. That was when TWA flew to cities like Copenhagen, Riyadh, Rome. I had thousands of miles on TWA. Those were the days.



Next Trip: STL-ORD-LHR-ATH-JMK
User currently offlineBobs89irocz From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 632 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2516 times:

Texdravid- Believe me, i feel your pain. I grew up in Keller and about 4-5 years ago i would literally spend HOURS at DFW (behind the AE hanger) and watch and wait for the BA 777/747 (at the time it was both) and the LH A343. Just to see those to birds come in and wait hours for where worth it. Now after living in Chicago for 2 years i realize i only have to spend 10 minutes at the airport to see what i saw in a matter of 3-4 hours at DFW. Being a DFW fan, i am jealous of ORD, MIA, JFK, IAH, SFO, LAX, but DFW will never be one of those. It has its own little place in this world and its one with the most runways....Beautiful place.


BTW: LH flys the MD-11 in sometimes, SIA-744, EVA- MD-11/747, Emery-A300, UPS- Everything up to the 747.

DFW gets a good flow of widebodys, just not much from Asia or Europe. If DL would bring back the amount of widebodys it once had then it would be a great place to spot.


User currently offlineAa61hvy From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 13977 posts, RR: 57
Reply 14, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2493 times:

Bobby- we do get UPS 747s


Go big or go home
User currently offlineJsnww81 From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2036 posts, RR: 15
Reply 15, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2508 times:

I grew up in Dallas as well, and consider DFW my "home" airport. It has gotten a bit stale in the past two or three years (especially since American pulled all of the 727s and F100s out of DFW), but AA still runs a decent amount of 757s and widebodies out of the airport. The ERJs and MD80s can get a little old at times, I'll admit, but at least American hasn't gone the Delta route and replaced everything with regional jets.

When I was a little kid back in the middle and late 1980s, I remember driving past Terminal 2W (this was back when people were intelligent enough to know the difference between east and west, before DFW got so many complaints and changed the terminal names) and seeing the signs for Thai, British Caledonian, Mexicana and Air New Zealand. We sure felt 'international' back then!

For a brief period in the late 1990s and early part of this decade, DFW looked like it was going to join the ranks of Atlanta and Houston. We had Japan Airlines, Korean Air, TACA, Sabena and Air France all inaugurate flights. Most of those are gone, but the two stalwarts - BA and Lufthansa - are soldiering on.

I have gotten a bit spoiled since I moved to Chicago - I love looking at the rows of exotic tails sticking up from Terminal 5. Of course, we've lost quite a few international carriers post 9/11 - Austrian Airlines, Aeroflot, Virgin Atlantic, Singapore Airlines - so the cookie crumbles both ways.

Passenger numbers are slowly rebounding - international traffic is a huge growth area these days - and DFW will see some new airlines. Probably not as many as the IAHs, MIAs, ORDs and JFKs of the world, but we'll do alright for ourselves... just give it some time.


User currently offlineTexdravid From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1355 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2410 times:

Thanks for the info guys!

I think for the foreseeable future, DFW will just be a AA airport. It still sucks, as I sometimes go to ATL and IAH for business, and in the late afternoon you can watch a KLM 744, TWO BA 777's, and AF 777 simultaneously.

Let's hope the DFW board gets their act together and the economy improves...and foreign airlines see the beauty of DFW!



Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
User currently offlineAa61hvy From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 13977 posts, RR: 57
Reply 17, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2390 times:

"Probably not as many as the IAHs, MIAs, ORDs and JFKs of the world, but we'll do alright for ourselves"

You can't put IAH in the same catagory as those other airports...



Go big or go home
User currently offlineLt-AWACS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2315 times:

Really, why not? IAH is the 9th largest Foreign gateway in the US.

As for DFW, don't hold your breath, with people like Laura Miller you could lose what little int'l business you have left... Good luck though.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Yankee Air Pirate


User currently offlineJsnww81 From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2036 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2285 times:

Fortunately Laura Miller doesn't have much say in the day-to-day operations at DFW. If she did... look out.

As for lumping IAH in with MIA/ORD/JFK... that wasn't meant to imply it's on a par with the big boys. As international carriers go, however, IAH is definitely a step above the DFW/DEN/CLT/DTW/PHX category. Those airports have service from only three or four foreign carriers, usually one of the Mexican airlines and British Airways and/or Lufthansa.

IAH falls into the middle tier of United States international gateways (in terms of airlines)... a healthy number of foreign airlines, but not the massive United Nations-style roster you'd find at LAX, SFO, JFK, IAD or the like. I'd lump IAH in with SEA, ATL, PHL or BOS - but certainly not with DFW if we're discussing number of international airlines.


User currently offlineASTROJET707 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 299 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2251 times:

While no airport is perfect DFW blows. I have lived in North Dallas for three years and flying AA in and out sucks.

1) I swear the Disney Team put the design on the drawing board. Granted back then, terrorism and bombings were seen in "foreign countries".

2) The tram connecting terminals is a disgrace. Holding my breath on the new terminal wide tram.

3) Flying out on AA sucks. I can't tell you how many times I've checked in for a flight at one terminal to be told I have to drag my ass to another.

4) Flying in late at night and walking all over the terminal to exit to baggage claim.

5) Lack of sufficient gate seating

6) One off-site parking lot closed last year?2002? and the capacity has never been replaced.

I'll take ORD, DEN, ATL any day over DFW

ASTROJET707


User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 977 posts, RR: 51
Reply 21, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2223 times:

Let's hope the DFW board gets their act together and the economy improves...and foreign airlines see the beauty of DFW!

DFW International Airport has probably been one of the greatest economic sucess stories of North Texas. The purpose of the airport is to generate revenue, something it does very very well. Your priviliged to live in a city where the planners had enough common sense and vision to allocate a huge tract of land to ensure DFW growth for years to come. There is still room for how many terminals and runways?

BTW- they built that new international terminal just so you can watch a pair of BA 777s make a parellel landing  Big grin

Fortunately Laura Miller doesn't have much say in the day-to-day operations at DFW. If she did... look out.

Larua Miller's greatest achievement was blocking an all-girls Catholic school (who won 18 state titles in 20 years) from building a soccer stadium on private property. Maybe it was because her daughter played for an opposing team...  Big grin


User currently offlineASTROJET707 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 299 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2209 times:

No doubt it has been a success. In terms of "userfriendliness"...IT BLOWS.

AJ707


User currently offlineLt-AWACS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2191 times:

JSN I see what you mean now, thanks for the clarification.

Not to sidetrack to much but if Laura miller keeps up, What few businesses are left in Dallas could be in Ft. Worth (growing) and Plano/Irving in 5 years...

Good luck to DFW, and all Texas Airports.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Texas-It's bigger than France


User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 977 posts, RR: 51
Reply 24, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2176 times:

Plano is close to build-out as it is already boxed in by Frisco to the north, Richardson to the south, and The Colony to the west. Plano has done a great job courting EDS, Frito Lay, Dr. Pepper, JC Penny, Beal Bank... but they weren't able to snag Boeing  Sad

25 Us330 : "Larua Miller's greatest achievement was blocking an all-girls Catholic school (who won 18 state titles in 20 years) from building a soccer stadium on
26 Cx123 : I think DFW can only be used as a Transit hub, rather than a Full International Stop. I mean it is not a big tourist city and economically in Texas, I
27 Atcboy73 : Texdravid Welcome to the gang. I live in Waco and my best friend lives at Esters Rd in Irving so I get up there a lot. I know what you mean by a lack
28 Nycfuturepilot : I have mixed feelings about DFW. Its boring for spotting but as a pax it really depends. Its very easy for arrivals as the carosels are right there bu
29 HlywdCatft : ITs a hell of a lot more than I see at Daytona Beach International. I see as many Cessna 172s as you see MD-80s, and usually its the same 3-4 just doi
30 Dia77 : I don't want to offend anyone from Dallas, but DFW is such a lousy airport (my opinion of course). I avoid it at all costs, I live in Chicago so I don
31 Texdravid : Dia77, No offense taken over your dislike of DFW. I respectfully disagree. ORD is too crowded and there is too much walking involved. DFW is centrally
32 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : airport like DFW doesn't live up to its INTERNATIONAL name. Some of you seem to have completely lost touch with reality.... ...one of the world's busi
33 AAJAXFlyer : I'm sorry, but I find this thread ridiculous. Just because there isn't a huge variety of pretty airplanes for the spotters to go photograph doesn't co
34 Aa61hvy : "Nashville International, Tucson International, and Savannah Internationals of the country" Add Dayton International, 1 flight a day to YYZ....
35 Blink182 : In terms of variety of airlines, I agree. If AA could only let some of their partners operate the codeshares(ie-LX from ZRH, LA from SCL, JAL from NRT
36 Bartond : DFW metroplex = 5.6 million people, FYI
37 Bartond : Okay DFW is "relatively" boring compared to some of the US (and world's) biggest international gateways. Concky's right...we're in a lot better shape
38 Aa777jr : I hate DFW!!! It's rather sad too, I always fly AA and get stuck in DFW going to Europe or Japan. Oh well...cheers!
39 Scott4AA : Aa777jr, I checked the timetable and as of the last timetable update (Mar 8th I believe), that 777 flight to JFK (1086) operates on only Jun 10, 2004.
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