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Virgin Atlantic Is Deferring Delivery 380  
User currently offlineKEESJE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 11340 times:

VIRGIN is deferring delivery of its first A380 by 18 months to early 2008 to ensure new cabin features are ready and airport facilities (citing LAX) will be ready..

Will this influence other deliveries?

73 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 19
Reply 1, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 11125 times:

Might mean someone else gets theirs earlier.
Might also signal other airlines to do the same, and might cause a few potential customers to have second thoughts.



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12028 posts, RR: 47
Reply 2, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 10973 times:
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KEESJE, where did you get this information? I can't find anything.

What cabin features are Virgin installing that won't be ready for nearly 4 years? I'm sure Airbus is willing to help VS, especially as they're currently negotiating a potential sale  Smile

Other airlines could take their planes earlier (EK springs to mind), or, of course, Airbus now has some additional early delivery slots to offer to new potential customers - Chinese carriers in time for the Olympics? Didn't they recently hint that they were in negotiations with four airlines?



Hey AA, the 1960s called. They want their planes back!
User currently offlineTeahan From Belgium, joined Nov 1999, 5287 posts, RR: 62
Reply 3, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 10723 times:

It is apparently on the Virgin intranet. Furthermore, it was posted in today's Edition of Orders News so I presume it is true.

Not really sure I believe the story about LAX (since it was never amongst Virgin's first A380 route routes which were mentioned in that Flight International feature last May).

J.



Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
User currently offlineTFJamie From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2004, 122 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10367 times:

Ramerinianair:

Yes! Let's put the manufacturer's future at stake for the sake of it being a novelty for you to fly one of their planes.

All the people who'll lose their jobs at airbus will at least be able to enjoy flying on the 380, because at least it's not that common!

Sorry for the sarcasm, but if you want to see the plane flying at all, hoping for few orders and airlines deferring their orders is not the way. That would destroy the program and maybe the company in whole.


User currently offlineKEESJE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10315 times:

Ramerinianair, original & honest vision  Big thumbs up

User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 912 posts, RR: 51
Reply 6, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10296 times:

There isn't anything wrong with the aircraft. In all likelyhood, this isn't LAX fault either, but as someone already said, some new type of inflight entertainment... Im excited to see what

User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5637 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 10075 times:

Actually, my DFW brother, there ARE some things wrong with the aircraft. Nothing serious- it's just several tons overweight. Which means that some of the planned airport preparations were not enough. That's the biggest problem I see. I wondered about this when Airbus leaked that the plane was fat- I suspected it might affect the airports.

Honestly, how can an airline expect to move that large a mass of people anywhere? In a day when only two US carriers can fly 747s (and United has a LOT of them parked!) and airlines around the world are shifting toward frequencies rather than capacities, why on earth would we expect this to be a successful venture?

Oh, don't worry, TFJamie, jobs won't be lost. Remember- Airbus's loans do NOT have to be repaid if the plane is a sales flop. Where did I get that info? I am trying to remember- I read it yesterday or the day before, I think on a Yahoo article linked from this site. Yeah, it was an interview with Stonecipher, and I think it was on Yahoo.



User currently offlineStarrion From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1122 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 9998 times:

Looks like some of my fellow Boeing fans are jumping the gun. I think that in spite of the obstacles the A380 will happen. There are too many hub pairs that will benefit even if it's not to the US airports. It will be some time before the US major airports can get renovations underway to support this bird, but it will come about eventually.


Knowledge Replaces Fear
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 9937 times:

Just because only 2 US carriers operate 744's, doesn't imply that large aircraft are not required by other airlines - slot constraints and the need to schedule multiple flights close together to take advantage of night time departures (e.g. South Africa-Europe) or early morning arrivals (eg. Asia-Europe) etc mean that the A380 will be exactly right for carriers currently operating multiple widebody departures very close together into slot constrained airports.

User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 7871 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 9849 times:

Dude, you gotta get your facts straight. The World doesn't end at the Canadian border. Airlines around the World are looking for both frequency and capacity. In fact in some parts (Asia), more capacity than frequency. They fly 600 seat 747's in Japan for cryin' that loud. The US majors are not a good representation of current World aviation. Far from it.
I see 777's and A346 being bought like hot cakes. The A380 will sell far more than expected. For any airline that wants to compete as a World player it will be inconceivable not to operate the A380. There's only so much frequency you can have on medium/long-haul flights. Ever wonder why there are no long haul LCC's?


User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 32
Reply 11, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 9745 times:

airlines around the world are shifting toward frequencies rather than capacities,

Ah yes, how insightful. And where did get this wisdom? Looking at the Boeing marketing brochures thinking "hey these guys are always right"?

Well I have bad news for you: There are many airports worldwide working at full capacity in terms of slots that just can't cope with higher frequencies anymore... as a result, and I guess you will agree with me, they have to push up capacity on certain services.

And for all those who wish A380 to go belly-up just for pseudo-patriotic reasons...have your heads checked, you have absolutely NO idea what you are talking about.



I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlineYUL332LX From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 820 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 9655 times:

In a day when only two US carriers can fly 747s... ...why on earth would we expect this to be a successful venture

What's the point? Who cares about US when the plane was never designed for US Airlines? You got to open your mind here… The success or failure of the A380 will have nothing to do with US airlines.



E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...
User currently offline7E72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 9605 times:

I would say that if Airbus wants to operate the A380 in the US, then they should just pay for the airport modifications  Smile I sure hope that IND will not accomodate that giant  Big thumbs up


The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
User currently offlinePlanemannyc From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1004 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 9562 times:
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Yet another discussion that mutates to A vs. B  Big grin

I want Canadair to make this extremely long CRJ that can accommodate 500 passengers (still 2x2 seating), have Boeing Spin off Douglas (not McDonnell, just Douglas) and they can come up with the MD-12 (six engined aircraft) and Embraer to come up with the EMB-500 (same concept as the Canadair) and then we can have a A vs. B vs. C vs. D vs. E discussion Big grin

Cheers,

Wasim / Planemannyc


User currently offlineN6376m From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 9487 times:

Don't you guys realize that when either Airbus or Boeing do something well it forces the other one to raise the bar. While no plane will ever meet everyone's needs, there's a long history of building upon the other's work that allows the aviation industry to remain on the leading edge of technological advancement.

I hope that AB makes a heck of a good plane and that Boeing learn from it. The same ways that I'm sure that the new technology incorporated into the 7e7 will push AB to improve.

This school ground my daddy's better than yours bullshit is just childish.


User currently offlineBCALdavid From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 74 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9294 times:

"I would say that if Airbus wants to operate the A380 in the US, then they should just pay for the airport modifications"

7E72004, what a sensible idea! While you're at it, let me know how much Boeing paid the European airports to prepare for the 747.

Your next carefully thought out statement...

"I sure hope that IND will not accommodate that giant"

I don't think they'll ever need to!!!

Stop bashing things just because they aren't American.


User currently offlinePhxinterrupted From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 474 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9206 times:

"What's the point? Who cares about US when the plane was never designed for US Airlines? You got to open your mind here… The success or failure of the A380 will have nothing to do with US airlines."

Who cares about the US? Uh, how about all the airlines buying the 380? Where the hell do you think they are going to fly them? Sure, US airlines may not buy the 380, but that's hardly the point. Have you forgotten where the largest airline market in the world is? I know, you're angry because you have to live in the shadow of the the largest economy in the world. It's okay, we don't regard Canada as a threat.



Keepin' it real.
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9123 times:

>>>and then we can have a A vs. B vs. C vs. D vs. E discussion

Love it! (Too bad we couldn't have found a way to get Fokker into it as well...)  Big grin


User currently offlineStartknob From Germany, joined May 2004, 156 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9036 times:

PHXinterrupted,

Who cares about the US? Uh, how about all the airlines buying the 380? Where the hell do you think they are going to fly them?
They will create slots by moving more people between Europe, Asia, India, Australia, Africa and the Mid-East. They will retire a whola lot of 747s and 747Fs. From the US LAX, SFO, EWR, JFK is all they need - and will get sure as hell - rather sonner than later IMHO.

Sure, US airlines may not buy the 380, but that's hardly the point.
No US airline to my knowledge can afford a 380 - too many Ch. 11 and Ch. 7 underway.

Have you forgotten where the largest airline market in the world is?
No, I haven't. Currently this is China and the Far East region.

I know, you're angry because you have to live in the shadow of the the largest economy in the world. It's okay, we don't regard Canada as a threat.
According to this statement i'm really happy for my various Canadian friends that the US seemingly is not believing to find Weapons of mass destruction in Canada in order to invade.

Fly 380, fly.  Wink/being sarcastic






When playing cat and mice it's imperative to know, who's the cat.
User currently offlinePlanemannyc From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1004 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 8983 times:
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OPNLguy,

Sure we can! Let's use the a.net first class membership money to buy the defunct Fokker and revive the F100 line to F500 (again keep the 2x3 seating, jut 100 rows!) and have the

A vs. B vs. C vs. D vs. E vs. F arguments!

Best,

Wasim / Planemannyc


User currently offlineSnnams From Ireland, joined Apr 2004, 288 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 8691 times:

Are we incapable of having any kind of informed debate on this forum anymore without it degenerating into a ridiculous and childish a.v.b load of crap????

To those of you who have not yet indulged in this nonsense and have actually had something worthwhile to say, please continue: hopefully we can drive the bigots into silence!

To address one particlular remark about only 2 US airlines having even 747's: the world does not stop and end at the U.S.... if you have witnessed the airport congestion here in Europe, you would see why the A380 needs to, and will happen!!

Just because some other countries decide to challenge Boeing's previous near monopoly does not mean the extinction of Boeing and does not mean the extinction of the U.S aircraft industry. The US is supposed to be the home of capitalism, yet SOME seem to be of the opinion that this competition is wrong and some kind of crime against the U.S. If you are capitalists, can some of you kindly start acting like it!!! Equally, slightly less arrogance from Certain European posters would be very nice for a change too. (although, thankfully I have witnessed none of this so far on this thread.. but i'm waiting for it)


And just to set the record straight, I regularly fly Boeing and Airbus and like them both.

Competition = good; bigotry from EITHER side of the Atlantic = bad.


User currently offlineRT514 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 8678 times:

PHXinterrupted,

Your last post (#18) reeks of naivete but should at least be commended on its comedic value. The US being the "largest airline market in the world" is subjective and vague at best. In the interest of keeping my post relevant, however, I shall get to the point at hand.

Some things that I think are noteworthy here...
Although I can believe it, there is still no source cited to indicate that VS is deferring delivery. Airlines defer delivery, they cancel, modify and change orders and delivery schedules all the time. I think that much more speculation is being fuelled here because it's a new aircraft we're talking about in this case.

I agree with Jwenting, probably the biggest effect that this will have is that other A380 customers may get their aircraft earlier than expected.





User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13043 posts, RR: 78
Reply 23, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 8601 times:

I can remember reading articles about the then A3XX, what the A380 is called now, way back in 1999/2000, Airbus even then did not expect many sales in the US, maybe UA in time, but no expectation of major sales in North America.
Still launched the project though.

Pacific Rim, Mid East (up and coming airlines there emerging now), Europe, these were seen as the main areas for sales, in that order, the US was way down the list.
After all, what prospects for future 747 sales in the US?
Pretty poor I'd say.

Now I could be tempted to stray from topic here, and respond to some of the lame xenophobia on this thread, by pointing out that most nations (especially 1st world ones) have rather more than about 25% of their citizens with passports.

The US market is the biggest, but it's mostly domestic, not what the A380 was designed for, BTW, 30 years ago Boeing did not build the 747SR just for Japan, they had hopes for domestic US sales too, now we know how long US domestic routes supported 747s, all gone by the mid 70's I think, so no help with the SR from there.

Airbus will lose little sleep over lack of US A380 sales.


User currently offlineYUL332LX From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 820 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 8573 times:

Have you forgotten where the largest airline market in the world is?

The largest market in the world in the next 25 years: Asia! And that is exactly what the A380 is for; not for US airlines! Will they fly their A380 into US? You bet but that has nothing to do with US airlines! Get the idea now? The A380 does not need US airlines to be successful...

I know, you're angry because you have to live in the shadow of the the largest economy in the world. It's okay, we don't regard Canada as a threat.

Why should I be angry? I am not the one who lives in a country where chimpanzees can be elected!  Big grin



E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...
25 UA744KSFO : As someone from the US, I feel the need to apologize for some of the arrogant, stupid, ignorant, and childish comments made by some of my fellow Ameri
26 Elcapi1980 : until now..how many order the A380 has , and by whom.... .... any info....thanks
27 RT514 : I certainly hope that Airtran737's remarks aren't representative of the quality level of other's posts on this site. It was irrelevant, it ignores the
28 GDB : I think it's clear that most US users here (the biggest group) are switched on, sensible and beyond lame xenophobia, however, as always, the ones shou
29 BoingGoingGone : The 380 has one purpose. Make the most out of routes where increased frequency is not an option. It's a very appropriate aircraft for airlines which a
30 Post contains images Iowa744fan : I just love how this has gone from just a comment on VS deferring their 380s to a full - scale A vs. B, US vs. the world thing! How many posts ever me
31 Post contains links Sandiaman : Here is an excerpt from an article written by R. Aboulafia on the subject of the A380 market (Source AIAA). According to the data, fragmentation does
32 Gigneil : Which means that some of the planned airport preparations were not enough. Several tons, even 10 more, would not increase the pavement loading of the
33 Post contains images Mtkinf : Unfortunately, America is quite obsessed with the "bigger is better" mindset, leading to the obvious intimidation that some of my fellow countrymen ar
34 BoingGoingGone : Unfortunately, America is quite obsessed with the "bigger is better" mindset, leading to the obvious intimidation that some of my fellow countrymen ar
35 Post contains images MD80Nut : What people have to understand is that there is a genuine need for an aircraft of the A380's size in many markets. Airlines in Asia have a need for la
36 SonicKidatBWI : My comments aren't about VS deferring deliveries ... rather they are to express my profound disgust for some of these American's on here. I am America
37 MidnightMike : Amazing, this is simply amazing, everybody is reading too much into the news story, Virgin Atlantic simply deferred delivery of an aircraft, it happe
38 BoingGoingGone : First of all. Pipe it. Second: America must not be doing something right. Everyday when I come to A.net I'm seeing another posting of another U.S. maj
39 Post contains images Keesje : About US carriers, could Northwest be tempted to operate A380 Combis ? (main deck cargo, upper deck passengers on LAX/SEA/MSP/DTW to Narita flights ?
40 A380900 : I can't find anything backing this stuff. LAX or in flight entertainment stuff seem pretty weak explanations. Could anyone confirm this stuff with som
41 ConcordeBoy : About US carriers, could Northwest be tempted to operate A380 Combis ? They could be tempted all they'd like.... but the FAA has made it more than cle
42 Col : I think Richard is probably making sure his flagship is 100% ready. It is good for him and Airbus, better customer reaction. Problem is if BA pick up
43 BoingGoingGone : Uh...Uh...Uh... Okay kid. You must be one of those stupid-ass Americans that I was referring too because had you not been, you wouldn't have responded
44 Roberta : They could be tempted all they'd like.... but the FAA has made it more than clear that they're not keen on certifying any new combis. Hence Boeing dro
45 Laddb : Like UA744KSFO and others, I'd like to apologize for some of the comments made by fellow Americans, not only on this thread, but all over the board. I
46 Amhilde : And its not just large population growth in Asia either, but a likely expansion of wages and living standards, not to mention middle classes, that wi
47 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : we Americans are going to have to start wearing shirts with a mapleleaf on the front when we travel abroad. Screw that ...and the place where they rep
48 Laddb : ConcordeBoy, Thanks for making my point. Or was that a friendly taunt at our neighbors?[Edited 2004-05-14 22:24:21]
49 Post contains images RIX : "As someone from the US, I feel the need to apologize, ... Like UA744KSFO and others, I'd like to apologize for some of the comments made by fellow Am
50 Post contains images YUL332LX : Yes, we have a chimpanzee leading the nation. Please don't rub it in. Oh, I won't. Unless we get another US vs. Canada war anytime soon! Name one othe
51 Post contains images RIX : "we’ll be nice but we’re gonna beat you anyway." - hmm, last time we met... the youth world championship... (Hope, this one, unlike the first two
52 Gigneil : They could be tempted all they'd like.... but the FAA has made it more than clear that they're not keen on certifying any new combis. Roberta is right
53 Post contains images YUL332LX : RIX, of course it was friendly hmm, last time we met... the youth world championship... Don't remember that one
54 StarCruiser : Like so many others I really find this A vs. B debate to be very childish. Both Airbus and Boeing outsource much of their work to other nations. Much
55 Post contains images RIX : "Don't remember that one" - I'd rather not remember that one either. Hell, it was a chance for Canada to capture all the gold (then they still were ju
56 Cjuniel : There have been some ignorant discussions on airliners.net, but I must say this one takes the cake. I refuse to apologize for the "ignorant" Americans
57 Post contains images Leezyjet : Not getting involved in the childish A vs B comments, But Yes i can confirn that VS are deferring their order until 2008. I read it last week on the c
58 Shenzhen : I wonder if there are some performance shortfalls that VA are aware of, but not being released to the public. Maybe they were assured that by Line num
59 Starlionblue : ConcordeBoy said: About US carriers, could Northwest be tempted to operate A380 Combis ? They could be tempted all they'd like.... but the FAA has mad
60 BoingGoingGone : Which is why I said the following: The 380 has one purpose. Make the most out of routes where increased frequency is not an option. It's a very approp
61 Post contains links BoingGoingGone : Finally some press on the matter: http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/040517/airlines_virgin_4.html
62 Starlionblue : BoeingGoingGone, I agree, BUT: - Operating costs per seat are (should be) lower than a 744, so you don't have to fill the plane as much percentagewise
63 BoingGoingGone : Until the 777, nothing beat the 747 is seat costs, and the 30 years to sell 1300 units is the same reason the A-380 won't be a barn burner either. To
64 Lehpron : >> "...airlines around the world are shifting toward frequencies rather than capacities..."
65 Gigneil : In a day when only two US carriers can fly 747s (and United has a LOT of them parked!) and airlines around the world are shifting toward frequencies r
66 Post contains images Sllevin : Slots and agreements prevent people from flying as many flights a day as they want, especially on longhaul international routes. True, but in many cas
67 Areopagus : revive the F100 line to F500 ... and have the A vs. B vs. C vs. D vs. E vs. F arguments! Bring on the airliner version of the Gulfstream G-5!
68 Joni : "Honestly, how can an airline expect to move that large a mass of people anywhere? In a day when only two US carriers can fly 747s (and United has a L
69 Post contains links Joni : This was reported also on FT and CNN at http://edition.cnn.com/2004/BUSINESS/05/17/virgin.doubledeck.reut/index.html
70 Shenzhen : And the survey says..... Survey of passengers.. what would you rather fly on, a 550 seat or 250 seat aeroplane. tongue and cheak... just for a laugh h
71 Post contains images Fritzi : Senzhen, the best part about that article is: Press Release Source: Boeing Co.
72 Post contains links Keesje : VIRGIN Atlantic bosses believe the airline has become caught up in a tide of protectionism sweeping the US. The airline, majority owned by Sir Richard
73 ND : I doubt EK would take the next spot in terms of orders since they are using GE engines with their A380s.
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