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Airbus In Talks To Sell 30 A320s To JetBlue  
User currently offlineInnocuousFox From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2805 posts, RR: 14
Posted (10 years 2 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5515 times:

May 19, 2004 01:45:58 (ET)

PARIS, May 19 (Reuters) - European planemaker Airbus SAS ((EAD.PA)) ((BA.L)) is in talks to sell 30 A320 family narrow-body jets to U.S. low-cost airline JetBlue Airways (JBLU,Trade), French daily Le Figaro reported on Wednesday, citing Airbus Chief Commercial Officer John Leahy.

Airbus was not immediately available to comment on the matter.



JetBlue's stock jumped between 5-7% already today.


Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6568 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (10 years 2 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5476 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

In other jetBlue news.. some of their maintenace, along with some America West aircraft, is currently being done by TACA in El Salvador.


Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 2, posted (10 years 2 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5384 times:

JetBlue's success is really impressive, they have done very very well in a difficult enviornment.

But, at this point, am I the only one getting a bit nervous about a potential over-expansion? They still have about 40 (?) A320s on order from existing orders, there are 100 E190s on the way, and now another 30 Airbus A32Xs (interesting that it says A320 family and not the A320, could JetBlue be thinking A321 for its busy routes like Kennedy-Fort Lauderdale?) to be added to the fleet. I dont want to be negative, but JetBlue will have to introduce a lot of new routes (and additional hubs/focus cities) to keep all of these aircraft busy and profitable.

I still have memories of PeopExpress and their overexpansion, I realize that JetBlue is a far different product than what was offered by PE, with a very different business plan, but still, overexpansion is the leading cause of airline death since deregulation.

I hope I am 100% wrong, your thoughts?


User currently offlineStartknob From Germany, joined May 2004, 156 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (10 years 2 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5289 times:

Good point, Dutchjet. Maybe it´s expansion, then, indeed it´s a massive one and possibly stretching too much.
On the other hand it´s not a new development, that an A320 operator starts with the 320 and later adds 319s and 321s in order to optimize the flights to the demand (321) or cut costs (319). So, the step would make sense. On the other hand: Nobody said that all 320s currently with Jetblue would stay in case other "320 family" cradfts would be delivered. Maybe they´re phasing out some 320s when the "others" come. They have godd residual value and cam be sold with relative ease. So mayby this all would tend no to another expansion but to an fleet optimization?

Just a thought.

Regards,

Kojak



When playing cat and mice it's imperative to know, who's the cat.
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 4, posted (10 years 2 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5268 times:

Why would they sell the airplanes they have now and take new ones?

They have 40ish orders right now. If they wanted those to be 321s or 319s, Airbus would switch the ones not past procurement with no trouble.

N


User currently offlineScottysAir From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 2 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5241 times:

How many Airbus A320 are in the service now? Is that almost 60th Airbus A320 now?

User currently offlineB6FA4ever From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 816 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (10 years 2 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5204 times:

ScottysAir,

I believe as of right now we have 57 planes in our fleet. i think theres another 9(ish) or +-1 left to still be delivered.

~B6FA4ever


User currently offlineAirlineFanatic From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 222 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (10 years 2 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5026 times:

Friday we take delivery of our 59th A320.

I would love to see 321s for B6 especially for LGA service and to replace on some JFK-FL routes that are in desperate need of additional seats.

I am always amazed that the airline that DOESN'T overbook it's flights manages to keep the highest load factor in the industry. If that doesn't spell 321 than I don't know what will.

Re: People Express... most of the top executives at JB were once held leadership positions at People - if anyting you see JB building its business away from the mistakes People made:

High utilization of Technology
Scalability
Strong brand - proven to be strong enough to combat legacy/majors
Controlled growth[Edited 2004-05-19 20:46:59]

[Edited 2004-05-19 20:48:09]

User currently offlineSfelix1978 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 40 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (10 years 2 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4981 times:

anybody knows why jetblue do the maintenance in el salvador.....cheaper labor, they don't have the infrastructure to do maintenance in jfk or other reason......
any input is welcome.......


User currently offlineAirlineFanatic From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 222 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (10 years 2 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4956 times:

Heavy maintenance is sent to SAL and YWG. JFK/FLL/LGB/MCO maintenance handles other MX issues - efficiency and costs control

User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 17
Reply 10, posted (10 years 2 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4940 times:

40-ish orders? I'm pretty sure that there are something closer to 100 A-320's still waiting to be delivered to jetBlue over the next decade or so...(edit: jetBlue has confirmed orders for 208 A-320's, meaning there are some 151 still to be delivered)

[Edited 2004-05-19 20:55:30]


Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineSfelix1978 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 40 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (10 years 2 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4894 times:

how is the work quality in el salvador with the airbus a320........
how about maintenance to the directv system when it breaks down....where its done.......


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 12, posted (10 years 2 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4880 times:

jetBlue used to use EADS in Lake Charles, LA for maintenance.

Guess Central America is cheaper.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

I'm pretty sure that there are something closer to 100 A-320's still waiting to be delivered to jetBlue over the next decade or so...

I do not believe this to be true, but will check.... (checking) (checking).

You're quite right. 95 remain to be delivered.

N


User currently offlineMt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6568 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (10 years 2 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4834 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

how is the work quality in el salvador with the airbus a320
I guess you can judge for yourself:

http://www.aeroman.taca.com



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineVivavegas From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 505 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (10 years 2 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4704 times:

AirlineFanatic - I am always amazed that the airline that DOESN'T overbook it's flights manages to keep the highest load factor in the industry.

Slightly OT, was listening to WN's annual meeting today, this past sunday in PHL, WN filled every seat on every flight! That is enough to make the dinosours to cream themselves..

Back to JetBlue, they have not even scratched the surface on the amount of cities they can serve. Remember WN has 400+ planes to get worried about them having 60 is foolish. Full planes, are happy planes...

Craig
MKE



MKE / EYW / LAS - The true trifecta of aviation!
User currently offlineInnocuousFox From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2805 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (10 years 2 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4589 times:

"I would love to see 321s for B6 especially for LGA service and to replace on some JFK-FL routes that are in desperate need of additional seats"

If you can justify purchasing a different type of aircraft to add 20 seats or so on a route, you can usually justify adding one more flight of the same type of aircraft.



Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
User currently offlineJetbluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2970 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (10 years 2 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4503 times:

By 2011, they are to have 290 aircraft. 290 - 100 E-190's = 190 a320's. They currently have about 60 a320's, meaning that they have to still take delivery of another 130 of them. Shouldn't they use these aircraft before ordering more?? Or do I smell some type of huge, mega-hub operation??

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlineFLY2LIM From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1184 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (10 years 2 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4455 times:

Corporations are sending their services to foreign countries. IRS processing is being done in India, airline customer services are now handled overseas, and the list goes on. Why wouldn't an airline outsource to another country, especially when Aeroman seems to be such an incredible operation. Just because it's in El Salvador does not mean that they won't have a good set up. I remember way back when Braniff had a maintenance base in LIM for their operations in SA.
I can see that Grupo TACA is really growing. They and LAN are going to be a huge presence worldwide. Just you wait and see.
FLY2LIM



Faucett. La primera linea aerea del Peru.
User currently offlineElwood64151 From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 2477 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (10 years 2 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4392 times:

I still have memories of PeopExpress and their overexpansion, I realize that JetBlue is a far different product than what was offered by PE, with a very different business plan, but still, overexpansion is the leading cause of airline death since deregulation.

I disagree: I think over-leveraged, un-planned expansion is the leading cause of death for airlines since deregulation.

I think B6 is on an even keel. They have lots of cash, are profitable, and know exactly where they want to go. They have a plan of action and are sticking to it as best as the business environment allows. If they think they can add another 170 aircraft, then they probably can. Remember that ValueJet/AirTran ordered 100 717s (then MD-95s) when they had only about 35-40 DC-9s operating. That has worked out remarkably well for them!

If you can justify purchasing a different type of aircraft to add 20 seats or so on a route, you can usually justify adding one more flight of the same type of aircraft.

Agreed, but if you can do both, so much the better! And if you can't add flights, or if you feel you may need the aircraft on future routes, it may be a good idea to add them now. After all, the A321 isn't so different from an A320. If I understand correctly, we're talking the difference between a 73G and a 739, or am I mistaken?

FLY2LIM:

You are correct, and there is no reason why companies should shy away from finding lower labor costs for operations that can be done overseas. Except for one thing:

Companies are finding that customers in the US do not like to do business with companies where they call someone in India to deal with a problem in Des Moines. In other words, companies develop Goodwill in the USA when they operate their business in the USA.

That said, NJ had its heavy MX done in El Salvador, and it was quite welcome, especially when that pilot touched down ass-first! A $2M repair cost us only a little over $1M, from what I'm told.



Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
User currently offlineSkymileman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (10 years 2 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4370 times:

Dutchjet makes an excellent point about the potential for over-expansion. There are quite a few examples (or so I am told) of airlines that expanded like crazy, and then just died.

User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 7985 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (10 years 2 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4268 times:

I think in the end, JetBlue may convert some of their A320 options to A321's.

The reason is simple: JetBlue needs the bigger A321 for certain transcon routes and for the JFK-FLL/PBI flights. But the A321 fleet will probably be small: no more than 15-20 planes.


User currently offlineScottysAir From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (10 years 2 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4191 times:

Are you sure about B6 want to plans orders with A321 and not use with their A320. isn't that was too small airplanes for transcontinental flight and they need to get little bigger for them.

User currently offlineIndustrialPate From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (10 years 2 months 5 days ago) and read 4149 times:

Are you sure about B6 want to plans orders with A321 and not use with their A320. isn't that was too small airplanes for transcontinental flight and they need to get little bigger for them.

So you think the A321 is too small for transcontinental and they should order a bigger airline, like the B777 or B747?


User currently offlineCanoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2838 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (10 years 2 months 5 days ago) and read 4109 times:

The reason is simple: JetBlue needs the bigger A321 for certain transcon routes and for the JFK-FLL/PBI flights. But the A321 fleet will probably be small: no more than 15-20 planes.

First of all I doubt they will operate anything other than an A320 and the EMB190. The A321 is more range restricted than the A320, so the I don't think they would consider it for a route that is at the limits of its range. I would agree you'll probably just see increased frequency rather then the purchase of A321's.

[Edited 2004-05-20 07:03:49]


The beatings will continue until morale improves
User currently offlineMark777300 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 388 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (10 years 2 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4052 times:

It has been said in the past (I believe in a magazine a while back) that B6 was asking Airbus to create an A320 that had a few extra rows added but without going for the A321. It was a small article but I don't remember where I read it. but it wouldn't surprise me if B6 went for the A321 sooner or later. Their flights between JFK and FLL are always full. I have flown on practically every one of their departures and they are always full.

I also have to say that yes I fell into that trap thinking that B6 is following People's Express foot steps, but thats far from the truth. This is a totally different breed of airline, probably existing at the right time when people are out for the lowest fares and great service. LCCs are thriving and B6 is one of the leaders in this category. Yeah, they are growing and expanding rather quickly, but as David Neeleman stated, there are many destinations that have not been tapped into yet that would be ideal for the new ERJ's. Trust me, everyone of B6's A320's and ERJ190's will bet kept busy.


25 AirplaneBoy : I honestly don't know what to think about JetBlue's rapid expansion. I'm hopeful that they'll succeed, but am cautious as to whether or not they'll be
26 Canoecarrier : Braniff had a trendy brand, and trendy designers making uniforms as well. I do think they offer a service that other airlines aren't, that's why they
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