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UA Nonstop DCA-DEN  
User currently offline747firstclass From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3008 times:

I was just making reservation on UA from IAD-DEN for July 13 and return July 20. By accident I typed in DCA instead of IAD. To my astonishment, I saw that UaAwill be having 2 nonstops from DCA-DEN on July 13. I have no idea when that serive starts or even UA is able to operate that flights as it is outside the perimeter rule at DCA and I didnt think they had permission to do it.
Also, in a very brief search of return flights I did not find a nonstop DEN-DCA flight. However, I plan to search some more. Is there anybody out there who can shed light and details on this rather interesting development. Many thanks.

39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 1, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2976 times:

Announced a while ago:

http://www.united.com/press/detail/0,6862,51805,00.html



a.
User currently offlineFrugalqxnwa From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 565 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2952 times:

F9 has been operating nonstop DCA-DEN service for quite some time now, and I am glad to see UA finally being able to do the same. I do not know the exact reasoning for limiting airlines to the perimiter out of DCA, whether political or practical, but the 757, A320, A319, and 737NG should be able to go transcon from DCA no problem.

User currently offlineIowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4435 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2950 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

747firstclass,

United flight 484 leaves DEN at 10:15. Are you willing to fly F9? They have 3 non-stops to DCA.


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 4, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2923 times:

DCA, whether political or practical, but the 757, A320, A319, and 737NG should be able to go transcon from DCA no problem.

Political.

Its designed to redirect most traffic to IAD.

N


User currently offlineFrugalqxnwa From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 565 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2905 times:

Gigneil,

Thanks. I always love finding out more about how our buraucracy works.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25710 posts, RR: 85
Reply 6, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2899 times:
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Frugal:

The perimeter rule was introduced to "protect" IAD and enable it to develop for longer hauls.

However, some "beyond perimeter" flying was introduced about three years ago (six r/t flights, from memory).

Then, earlier this year, Congress voted to allow another six (?) beyond perimeter r/t's.

UAL ws granted one r/t DEN/DCA and Frontier was granted another two r/t DEN/DCA for a total of three.

Alaska was given one r/t LAX/DCA and one additional r/t SEA/DCA. America West was given one additional r/t PHX/DCA.

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinePlanespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3541 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2771 times:

what is considered "perimeter" around DCA?


Do you like movies about gladiators?
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25710 posts, RR: 85
Reply 8, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2762 times:
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As it says in the UAL press release, the perimeter is 1250 miles.

Anything less than that is "within perimeter". Anything more is "beyond perimeter".

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineInnocuousFox From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2805 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2726 times:

DCA is much more convenient for the business/institutional traveler. Since there is such a commuter corridor along the east coast, they wanted to make DCA more specifically available for those types of travlers. If they went to IAD, it would be less worth it for those people to fly in the first place.


Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
User currently offlineAirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3708 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2703 times:
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Good to see that UA got those slots. Anyone have and O&D numbers on the route? I'm sure that theyre decent or UA wouldn't do it.


Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25710 posts, RR: 85
Reply 11, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2644 times:
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AirTran:

DEN/DCA is a terrific route for Frontier, the 1 x daily flight is usually sold out.

So it will be interesting to see what happens when UAL starts - 1 x daily - and Frontier goes to 3 x daily.

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3490 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2541 times:

DL also received slots for its SLC-DCA route which was introduced a while ago.

Jeremy


User currently offlineF9Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 703 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2514 times:

The perimeter restriction around DCA is 1500 nm. This is just far enough to take in MIA, MSP, STL, MCI, DFW and IAH. There are also slot and time restrictions to regulate noise. You also have the restricted airspace above the White House making approaches rather tricky. There are also noise abatement procedures for the residents of Arlington and Alexandria in Virginia as well as parts of the District of Columbia and Maryland.

I think we owe a lot to Senator McCain for helping relax the perimeter restrictions. After all, how do you think PHX got those non-stops?  Wink/being sarcastic

F9Fan


User currently offlineF9Widebody From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1604 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2453 times:

Slightly off topic, but does anyone know if the approach traffic still comes straight over the Lincoln Memorial? I was there in '02 and it was the coolest thing at night - you would say this haze on the roofline, then a roar and a plane would come soaring over.

Regards



YES URLS in signature!!!
User currently offlineUAL777CONTRAIL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2450 times:

Looking forward to seeing how this route goes, a 757 DEN-DCA will be nice.

Nice to see another F9 route UAL will enter.

UAL 777 CONTRAIL


User currently offlineAirportGuy1971 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 355 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2420 times:

Nice to see another F9 route UAL will enter.

True just like the Mexican markets. UAL is indeed playing follow the leader!


User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9836 posts, RR: 52
Reply 17, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2405 times:

F9Fan, the DCA perimeter is 1250miles. You might be confusing it with the LGA perimeter, which is 1500 miles (no perimeter extensions, except for on Saturdays). All those destinations are within 1250 miles. DFW is close, but just under.


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25710 posts, RR: 85
Reply 18, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2387 times:
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Roseflyer:

"no perimeter exemptions.."

If you mean LGA, there is actually one exemption. Both F9 and UAL fly DEN/LGA which is over 1600 miles.

It's a somewhat complex story of how it came to be, but it involves a "grandfather" clause. I've never quite understood it.

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 19, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2305 times:

The main reason is that DEN was within range of the planes most people were flying at the time.

N


User currently offlineOrd From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 1390 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2248 times:

"UAL is indeed playing follow the leader!"

This is hardly true. United applied for the DEN-DCA slots the first go-around many years ago, but Frontier got the slots because the preference was to give them to smaller carriers (i.e. Frontier, America West, Midwest, etc.).



User currently offlineScottb From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6830 posts, RR: 32
Reply 21, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2176 times:

"If you mean LGA, there is actually one exemption. Both F9 and UAL fly DEN/LGA which is over 1600 miles"

DEN is exempted from the perimeter; however, the perimeter rule at LGA does not apply on Saturday.


User currently offlineUAL777CONTRAIL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2145 times:

AIRPORTGUY71,
Not follow the leader, another route at which a legacy carrier takes back market share.

/ / / / / / U N I T E D


User currently offlineFrugalqxnwa From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 565 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2139 times:

Back to the perimiter thing...

The commuter traffic at DCA is great, but there is probably already that much or more commuter traffic at IAD. The Washington metropolitan area is now more than large enough to support both airports without the perimiter around DCA, and it would be good for compitition if the perimiter were removed. The exemtion slots are a move in the right direction, and I am glad to see them.


User currently offlineJc2354 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 590 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2108 times:

<"the perimeter rule at LGA does not apply on Saturday">

So, there could be Saturday only non-stop service between LGA and the West Coast, Puerto Rico, etc.?




If not now, then when?
25 Post contains images DEN-HNL : @UAL777contrail Great "legacy" there. Can't manage a dime and continuously getting bailed out by Uncle Sam.
26 MSYtristar : People at UAL are sorely mistaken if they think that they are taking market share away from F9 on new, competing routes, whether they be mainline, Ted
27 AirportGuy1971 : Goodness, did I touch a nerve. Not trying to tick anyone off. The original statement of Nice to see another F9 route UAL will enter. seemed to be just
28 Gigneil : So, there could be Saturday only non-stop service between LGA and the West Coast, Puerto Rico, etc.? These services, in fact, do exist. US and ATA bot
29 Cjuniel : MSYtristar, You couldn't be MORE wrong. United is the #1 airline from Denver to the Washington, DC area. There are several flights daily from DEN-BWI,
30 Mariner : Cjuniel: The debate (argument?) is not whether UAL will do well - obviously it will do well on DEN/DCA, just as it does well on DEN/IAD and DEN/BWI. T
31 MSYtristar : Cjuniel, huh? I never questioned UA's significant prescence in the DEN-D.C market. Re-read my post my friend. To reiterate.... * F9 will have 3 DEN-DC
32 DCAYOW : The perimeter at DCA has been gradually increased over time. There was a time when Dallas and Minneapolis were not within the perimeter and that chang
33 Timz : (I'm not home now, so this is not guaranteed 100% correct, but should be close.) IAD opened circa 1962 and scheduled jet flights at DCA started in 196
34 FA4UA : We're talking about traveling between two strong points for UA... DC area and DEN, where we are the dominant carrier in both metro areas. (Even more n
35 UAL777CONTRAIL : MARINER, "ual777contrail seems convinced that somehow F9 is responsible for UAL's woes, and moans about it as much as he can"? don't be an ass mariner
36 MSYtristar : UAL777, how will one flight "take market share back?" I'm just not convinced that that will happen. Sure, the service will entice loyal United custome
37 Gigneil : I will, without question, pay a bit more to fly on the UA metal from DCA and not have to drive out to IAD and park. N
38 Post contains images Mariner : UAL777CONTRAIL: I think you just proved my point - but what the hey? I have tried to debate this rationally with you in the past, and I get nowhere. Y
39 Ual777contrail : Proved your point? Mariner you have proved nothing. If it makes you feel better to think you have one up, have it. But make sense next time you try to
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