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Jetblue's LGB Hub Plans  
User currently offlineNycfuturepilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 791 posts, RR: 0
Posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 5678 times:

Jetblue seems to be adding a lot of flights out of JFK but I havent seen anything new out of LGB in quite some time. What are there plans there? Are they doing well out of LGB?

Also, when people mention the possible E-190 routes they all seem to focus on eastern cities but what possible destinations are there from LGB? Would the 190 be able to handle midwest-LGB service?


Father, Son, HOYA spirit
60 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCory6188 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2692 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 5576 times:

One of the problems is that LGB is slot restricted, so they are limited in the routes and flights that they can add there.

User currently offlineDeltaflyertoo From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 1663 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 5557 times:

When is Jetblue going to bite the bullet and move to LAX!

User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4528 posts, RR: 34
Reply 3, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 5539 times:

Long Beach can't be getting near the revenue out of that airport that they did when McDonnell Douglas was going full tilt. Now that Boeing is down to 717's, one wonders if the cash potential of bigger JetBlue ops is going to overcome the city's idiotic NIMBY politics and lead to reduced or eliminated slot restrictions.

The impression that I have is that that unhinged LGB-area NIMBY's pretty much have the airport boxed in. But the only thing that often speaks louder to local governments than the NIMBY peanut gallery is cold hard cash, and LGB has the potential to rake in lots of it through jetBlue.

Jim



Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
User currently offlineMark777300 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 388 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 5486 times:

I seriously dobt that B6 will even consider LAX as an alternative. I would see them first out of ONT before anything. But it's been no secret that LGB does have numerous slot restrictions, and I'm not sure how the whole thing that involved AA going to court over their unused slots at LGB ended up. My personal opinion is that in due time, specifically when B6 begins to receive their new ERJs, you will see an increase in operations out of LGB, and I still feel that a new "focus city" will be created down in the southeast, probably FLL or MCO. We'll see what happens.

User currently offlineInnocuousFox From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2805 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 5456 times:

You could run the RJs all over the California/Vegas/Arizona area. It's not prime location for a connecting hub, but the commuter O&D would be nice.


Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
User currently offlineMidnightMike From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2892 posts, RR: 14
Reply 6, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 5405 times:


There are no more open slots out of Long Beach, the only way that Jetblue can expand is if another airline gives up their slots.

There is a Long Beach Airport Advisory Meeting tonight at 1800-2000m to discuss Airport planning and other items.



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User currently offlinePW100 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2002, 2589 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 5368 times:

What are the chances that Jetblue would manage to bypass LGB slot restirctions through using the EMB190?
Can the EMB-190 be classified as a RJ under LGB definitions?
I believe that LGB slot restrictions don't apply for RJ's. Is this correct?

Thanks,
PW100

[Edited 2004-05-20 22:41:45]


Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
User currently offlineBoingGoingGone From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 5326 times:

There is no exemption, there is a limit to all commercial flights. All slots are full.

http://www.lgb.org/content/noiseordinance.htm


User currently offlineMidnightMike From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2892 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 5203 times:

PW100

There are, I think 20-30 regional slots open at Long Beach, however, the EMB190 does not qualify as a regional jet, as per Long Beach, I forgot if it has to do with weight or number of seats.




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User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5844 posts, RR: 28
Reply 10, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 5169 times:

LGBs restrictions are based on weight. A regional slot is for aircraft operating at 75,000 pounds MTOW. Thats about the size of a CR7.

There are currently 25 Regional slots available at LGB, the maximum they have.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineInnocuousFox From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2805 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 5064 times:

Which really makes you 2nd guess the choice of LGB as a hub, doesn't it?



Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
User currently offlineScottysAir From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 5044 times:

Yes, it is! They doesn't need anything about with their slot restricted and why not need to make more commerical airlines into LGB either?

User currently offlineCactus739 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2450 posts, RR: 30
Reply 13, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 5039 times:

When I first read the question I was trying to figure out when jetBlue built up an LGA hub. Then I woke up and read it right....  Smile

Is Burbank or Ontario slot controlled as well?




You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
User currently offlineScottysAir From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week ago) and read 4960 times:

No, they did not have any slot control in ONT & BUR either.

User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5950 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week ago) and read 4920 times:
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When OAK finishes its expansion on T2, maybe B6 will open an alternate focus city there.

User currently offlineScottysAir From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week ago) and read 4916 times:

Well, I am sure about them with OAK and will finish with the new T2. I can't wait to see them.

User currently offlineIslipWN From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week ago) and read 4910 times:

What ever happened to B6 coming to ISP? Are they?

User currently offlineScottysAir From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week ago) and read 4898 times:

Not yet to ISP flight either.

User currently offlineModesto2 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2819 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (10 years 7 months 1 week ago) and read 4855 times:

What is OAK's T2 plan? B6 should seriously consider OAK as another focus city. It already operates to BOS, IAD, JFK and LGB. B6's operation at OAK is quite impressive, and I only see it expanding in the near future. It's nice to see OAK with good number of transcons.

User currently offlineJetbluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3018 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (10 years 7 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4818 times:

LGB - IMO - will see more flights by JetBlue soon. The NIMBY's there really are strong, no doubting that, but as stated above, the airport lost a lot of traffic ever since the MD plant closed down. The 717 production line is almost dead, and therefore LGB is not making as much money as it can possibly make. Therefore, if they turn to JetBlue and give them - say - another 15 slots, LGB will make more money. And not only does this money benefit the airport, but also the library, where all the landing fines go (late arrivals, etc.).

If this does not happen, Neeleman said that their only alternative is to drop LAS, OAK, and SLC (he didn't exactly say SLC, but I'm assuming he's thinking it) and to use those slots for transcons - which are much more profitable. But think about it - JetBlue can do A LOT with those 8 slots at the airport.

As far as OAK, JetBlue already has a focus city there. I'm pretty sure they are 2nd in terms of volume - right behind WN. 7x JFK, 3x IAD, 5x LGB, 2x BOS. It's quite a sizeable number, and from what I can gather, the BOS flights are doing all right from OAK, so perhaps we will see additional frequency? I also see a 1x-2x FLL, 1x-2x MCO, and maybe if JetBlue opened their eyes - 2x MSY. I'm also sure as JetBlue adds cities, they'll put more flights to those destinations out of OAK.

IMO, the Bay Area is underserved. Sure, UA has a hub at SFO, but it's not huge or a mega-hub (I'm NOT saying that it's small). But there's still a few routes that are starving for LCC's, and that's where B6 & OAK come into play. The airline and the airport have a very tight relationship.

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlineScottysAir From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (10 years 7 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4791 times:

I can see about new service from OAK-MSY/MCO/FLL anytime soon with B6.

User currently offlineSllevin From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 3376 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (10 years 7 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4729 times:

Mark my words  Smile

There will never be an expansion of slots for LGB. Yes, the city has lost money since McDD (now Boeing) is tapering off production. What jetBlue could bring to the area is trivial compared to that. If you argue finances, understand that the best and most valuable use of LGB to the city of Long Beach would be as a shopping center! However, the city is willing to forgo that revenue for the ability to have an airport. But they will never expand the airport.


Look for jetBlue to morph LGB into a pur destination point as they bring more cities online and offer 2x service from those cities into LGB. All the "local" routes will go away in the next year or so...

Steve


User currently offlineAs739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6196 posts, RR: 24
Reply 23, posted (10 years 7 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4694 times:

Scotty...easy there about Oakland. They have not even started it and its a long way from being done. They will continue to be pressed for space at OAKas well. I personally can not see over 25 flights being operated out of there till they can get 6-7 gates to their own.

ASSFO



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5231 posts, RR: 21
Reply 24, posted (10 years 7 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4652 times:

Would it be possible for B6 to sue the city of Long Beach and force them to open up more slots?

*Slot restrictions at LGB are based on noise, not operational limits such as DCA and LGA. With a 10,0000 foot runway it could theoretically be as busy as Gatwick, tho the terminal is in no way capable of handling the volume.
*Slot restrictions are a barrier to free trade.
*The airport was there before most of the people living in the area were born.
*Maximizing the revenue potential of the airport would improve the entire region econmically.
*Today's airliners are categorically quieter than the aircraft that were operating when the limits were imposed.

Worth a shot, don't you think?




The best IFE: A window seat and a good book.
25 FATFlyer : The slot issue at LGB is the third rail of politics in the city of Long Beach. Most local politicians won't touch the issue unless they never plan to
26 Mariner : Silevin: I agree with you. It doesn't matter how many arguments airline (or airplane) people put forward, the residents are determined that the area w
27 Aaway : FATflyer, Absolutely great summation of the LGB case history. The regulatory controls in place at LGB (and, for the matter, SNA) are considered to be
28 MidnightMike : FATFlyer Can you send me an email mpenguin1@yahoo.com Mike
29 UAMAYBACH1239 : Jetblue has plans to expand out of LGB there are already plans to tear down the Boeing buildings on the north side and either extend or add another ru
30 Coronado990 : Well B6 ever get a gate at SAN for a focus city here and add non-stops to BOS, IAD, MCO & FLL? No slot restrictions here. Just a departure curfew betw
31 MidnightMike : UAMAYBACH1239 That tearing down of the Douglas/Boeing plants is for the Boeing Real Estate project, there are plans for Housing and a shopping comple
32 SHUPirate1 : The problem with LGB isn't capacity, it's those darned Nobody IMportant But Yourstruly's that refuse to allow additional slots at LGB...heck, LGB is A
33 InnocuousFox : "Nobody IMportant But Yourstruly's " Uh... I thought it was "Not IN My Back Yard"?
34 Post contains images SHUPirate1 : It is...I sometimes enjoy coming up with my own fitting acronyms, and both certainly work...
35 ONT 737 : SHUPirate1 the irony in the LGB noise ordinance is that you *can* fly A380s into there. The way the ordinance is written there will be no less than 41
36 Scottb : Unless jetBlue is paying some serious money to Boeing, I doubt that Boeing has any interest whatsoever in giving up valuable real estate at LGB to an
37 MidnightMike : Scott Pretty good information in there, I heard from some of the Jetblue pilots that Airbus can a way to fix the "whistling" that you hear up descent
38 Wedgetail737 : I thought the construction company the Port of Oakland hired broke ground on the new T2 expansion a couple of months ago. In any case, when the termin
39 Post contains images Iowa744fan : "And not only does this money benefit the airport, but also the library, where all the landing fines go (late arrivals, etc.)." Personally, I find thi
40 Jmacias34 : IIRC jetBlue began a second daily ONT-JFK (daytime) in June 2001, it was axed shotly after 9-11.
41 Jetbluefan1 : I believe they axed the second daily to ONT because they were adding a 3rd to LGB, and therefore were afraid that the passengers would overlap. JetBlu
42 StarCruiser : What I really find stupid is the NIMBYs forget in most cases airports were there before their homes were even built. It seems every time a city builds
43 Dbo861 : Which airports in the US are slot protected?
44 Nycfuturepilot : Starcruiser, I completely agree with you.
45 B6FA4ever : man, i'm w/ you too starcruiser. i've mentioned the same thing in other posts regarding LGB's NIMBY's (as well as other airports like SAN as well). th
46 Gigneil : Which airports in the US are slot protected? LGB, LGA, DCA, and JFK. ORD may also be receiving some restrictions now, I believe they forced UA and AA
47 ScottysAir : Yes, there is make more slot restricted in LGA, DCA, JFK & LGB.
48 Dbo861 : Scotty, sorry but I don't quite understand what you just said...
49 Scottb : Mike- Nope, I'm on the other side of the continent in Boston. I'm sure all the people near LGB knew they were purchasing property near an airport, but
50 ScottysAir : Dbo861, Please go to the my profile and I am ASL with sign languages for me.
51 Jetbluefan1 : LGB, LGA, DCA, and JFK. JFK is slot restricted? They may be slot restricted, but it's fairly easy to get a slot there. DL is adding, B6 is adding, AA
52 Asteriskceo : The airport will get it's way in the end. I'm sure they will expand the terminal in the years to come. If you go to lgb.org, read some of the extensiv
53 MidnightMike : Asteriskceo You are pretty brave if you have a "Say yes to airport expansion sign" in front of your house! The residents are pretty vocal about the ai
54 Richierich : I just wanted to clarify that JFK is slot restricted only during peak hours, which I believe are something like 1500-2100 local time. Naturally this i
55 Nosedive : Ummmmm go ahead and laugh at me, but what does NIMBY stand for?
56 SHUPirate1 : Nosedive: 1 (common definition): Not In My Back Yard 2 (SHUPirate1 definition): Nobody IMportant But Yourstruly
57 Jetbluefan1 : if anyone has the actual times of the slot restricted activity, I'd like to know. The slot restricted times at JFK are 3.00pm-8.00 pm, according to D.
58 Richierich : Thanks JetBlueFan.. I was an hour off on my times. 3PM-8PM is the critical transatlantic bank but not necessarily JetBlue's busiest period.
59 Wedgetail737 : Richierich...B6 still has 5 daily flights between OAK and LGB.
60 LGB Photos : There will be no expansion at LGB for jetBlue unless we do one of the following: 1. Take away 1 flight from a current city and move it to a new city.
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