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No American Operator For The A380s, Think Again  
User currently offlineVSXA380X800 From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 421 posts, RR: 1
Posted (10 years 7 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7795 times:

It was proven that the A380 will not be operating in North America. Fedex wasn't really a mile stone that could be prove that it is possible to operate the A380 in North America. UPS chance their mind and otp for the A380 than the A300. May I remind you that this was the same thing the 747 went though.

747.
1. Was made to be a cargo transporter for the military
A380
1. Was made to be a Super Jumbo for Commercial Aviation.
747
2. Wasn't successful in the military but won over with the airlines.
A380
2. Was successful with the airlines in Asia and Europe freighter version was successful with one American Cargo Airline Fedex.
747
3. Growing faster than predicted, became a very successfully, starting with very little believers it still became successful.
A380
3. My prediction is that when the airlines see how sufficient the A380 is on long hall routes they will start to buy the A380s. This is what BA is doing to see if the A380 is capable to do what it was mend to do.

In the end no one can see how the A380 could replace or even become as successful as the 747.
Just wait and see.

THIS IS NOT MENT TO BE A VS B WAR . PLEASE. Please try to be mature about the situation.

Thanks


4 decks 4 engines 4 long haul
62 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4763 posts, RR: 44
Reply 1, posted (10 years 7 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7667 times:

my opinion is that you are trying to start an a vs. b war -

comparing the 747 to the A380 with a challenging statement like "THINK AGAIN."

Let's face it - UAL is downsizing, AA is not interested, DL is not interested, CO is not interested

Your only hope is NWA and again - currently not interested.

so in the end - to quote you - 'try to be mature about the situation.'



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineArtsyman From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4745 posts, RR: 34
Reply 2, posted (10 years 7 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7659 times:

The difference in this case is that the US carriers have been on a very clear path of downsizing for a long time now, and seem to prefer frequency to size. They have been removing the 747 out of their fleets as it is, and if they do not need the 747 capacity, then why would they need the A380 capacity.

While I am sure that some US carriers routes could use it, these planes really need to be able to be filled year round in order to make some decent returns and thus will more than likely not be ordered.


J


User currently offline7E72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (10 years 7 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7599 times:

I don't know about anybody else but i am tired of this a v. b crap. Let's just see what happens in 2006 and 2008...shall we  Big thumbs up


The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
User currently offlineCancidas From Poland, joined Jul 2003, 4112 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (10 years 7 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7464 times:

i for one don't think that this airplanes makes much sense economically. there are few markets where you need to carry that many people. think of the cost in human life if someone really wanted to bring one down, and you know what... people like that exist. ah well, lets just wait and see.


"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
User currently offlineVSXA380X800 From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 421 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (10 years 7 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7442 times:

Comparing the 380 and the 747 is not starting a A vs B war according to my terms . On airliners.net a healthy debate is needed. Why would I start a war between two manufactures. ??. People say that no North American Airline will accept the A380s. What makes you think that those airlines will not change their minds after they see the many A380s being operated be the Cargo Airlines and what makes you think that there won't be any new North American airlines looking for something like a A380.
Who cares is American Airlines does not chose to by the A380s  Insane ,they don't even have a 747 or an aircraft that can hold as much as it. American airlines wasn't on the list on trying interest in the A380s.
I'm trying to show that being bias on a aircraft or a aircraft manufacture will not last. The Americans were bias on the 747 aircraft and how long did that last ???



4 decks 4 engines 4 long haul
User currently offlineVorticity From United States of America, joined May 2004, 337 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (10 years 7 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7420 times:

Unfortunately you cannot simply compare the rollout of the 747 with the A380. They were designed differently, marketed differently, and all in different times.

Currently it doesn't look like the major US passenger carriers are interested, but we'll see what the future holds.



Thermodynamics and english units don't mix...
User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 27
Reply 7, posted (10 years 7 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7367 times:

IMO: I know that we will all see the A380 flying about in a few years. . .so I just look forward to the awesome photos they will generate. In terms of the airlines/cargo carriers ordering the type. . .they will come in time. Maybe less than Airbus expected. . .maybe more.


Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
User currently offlineVSXA380X800 From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 421 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (10 years 7 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7284 times:

If I can not compare the A380 to the 747,(Vorticity), why are people doing it.

Than that means that the A380 is way out of the 747-400 league. Should I then compare the 747-5/600s??, Even though they were dropped



4 decks 4 engines 4 long haul
User currently offlineScottysAir From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (10 years 7 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 7155 times:

They don't have any orders with new A380 for American Operator. Maybe will see them in the future and they already make orders with FedEx to A380.

User currently offlinePhxinterrupted From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 474 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (10 years 7 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6958 times:

"THIS IS NOT MENT TO BE A VS B WAR . PLEASE. Please try to be mature about the situation."

Wow, sure sounds like it! You didn't provide any new information, only your opinion on how great YOU think the 380 is going to be. Lame.




Keepin' it real.
User currently offlineMark777300 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 388 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (10 years 7 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6774 times:

It's still ridiculous to compare the A380 to the 744 when the A380 will seat 100 more passengers than the 747. So would you say that this warrants a direct competion? Aside from UA and NWA, no other us carrier has expressed any interest in an aircraft the size of the 744 let alone even the 773ER or the A346. Taking this into account, why would we then believe that the A380 would be of any interest to US carriers? It's not an A vs B war, it's just simple facts that you can clearly see. That doesn't mean that any airline won't change their minds down the road, but when you factor in the trends that US airlines have been following over the past years and when you also factor in LCC's into the market, you find yourself looking at the possibilities as being slim. Most US carriers have been content with widebody twins to solve their long range high capacity needs. On the cargo side? Sure, I wouldn't rule out the possibilities of seeing an A380 in UPS colors one day. But like I said before, read the stats on the A380 and compare it with the 744, they may be used in similar markets, but the A380 is a much larger aircraft to even consider it to be a competitor to the 744. They simply both hold their own categories.

User currently offline7E72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (10 years 7 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 6719 times:

I just don't see any US airlines ordering the A380...especially right in the middle of this economy downturn in the airline business. I have to even wonder about ATA looking at other aircraft..considering they just replaced their fleet.


The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
User currently offlineBjg231 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (10 years 7 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 6519 times:

"747.
1. Was made to be a cargo transporter for the military "



I was always under the impression that the 747 was designed specifically for Pan Am and its long haul routes. Where did you get this from?



If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving is not for you.
User currently offlineGarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5426 posts, RR: 52
Reply 14, posted (10 years 7 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 6390 times:

The statement that the 747 was designed to be a cargo aircraft for the USAF is not entirely correct. The 747 was designed, in part, after Boeing's failure to win the contract for a large cargo aircraft (Lockheed won that contract, which resulted in the C-5). In desparation, Boeing designed the 747, Pan Am ran with it, and the rest is history. While the 747 did incorporate some of the lessons learned from Boeing's failed attempt at winning the contract, it hardly is the same aircraft.


South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlineStartknob From Germany, joined May 2004, 156 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (10 years 7 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 6308 times:

It was proven that the A380 will not be operating in North America.
A: Any evidence for this funny thesis? URLs? Sources?
B: If you want to bet money on that, be kindly advised to keep the sum you'll loose low. I'll be back in this forum exactly on 21st May 2010 and think that besides regular services to LAX, SFO, EWR and JFK of course there will be 380s flying at least between these routes.

Fedex wasn't really a mile stone that could be prove that it is possible to operate the A380 in North America.
A: Any evidence for this funny thesis? URLs? Sources?
B: I admire people very much that are able to foresee the future.
C: If it's about operations, everywhere a 777 could land an A380 would be able to land even today. The rest is done in the years to come. Keep cool and get used to the idea to see the A380 flying - even in the USA.

In the end no one can see how the A380 could replace or even become as successful as the 747.
SQ orders A380 to replace A310's or what?
QF orders A380 to replace ATR72's or what?
Oh yeah!
- Early 747s will be phased out by the A346 and perhaps 777ERs for the same demand class unless Boeing maybe comes up with a 747X, Adv, XYZ thingie.
- For lower demand there is a variety of options for airlines to replace 747-Service.
- And for higher demand - guess it - A380. Especially on slot restricted or "full" airports.


Please keep in mind that the A380 was NOT repeat NOT designed or built for the US market.
It's a tool to get more people moved with the same number of slots in slot-restricted or "full" airports, especially in the Far East, Australia, China, the Mid-East and Europe. If you please would be so kind to go to the "Website of evil" and have a look at the marketing materials of the A380 you'll find a LOT about everything - but the US.

Besides that - all this has been written by non-American a.netters now over and over again and obviously only a few ones in the US want/like/have heard it.

Yes, it's true: The A 380 was NOT designed for North America.

Yes, it's true: The A 380 has no need to fly in the US and would be still a success. But despite of this it will fly to and in the US also (as mentioned above)

Yes, it's true: the A380 will phase out a Lot of 747s, together with the 346 even more.

Sorry Boeing, sorry America. But this is the way it's just running wherever you look.

Please let me add one thing: BIGGER IS NOT AUTOMATICALLY BETTER!
It's so common to Americans that they implicate BIGGER with BETTER ("Texas is bigger than France" etc.) Have you ever thought about the "tremendous" micro-mechanic abilities of an Elephant? Or just do a google about the "tremendous success" of the biggest flying boat ever, the Dornier Do-X.

Please make up your minds. Only because A has a bigger plane in the pipeline B is far from being busted! Perhaps the strategy behind the A380 (concentration) is wrong and the strategy behind the is right 7E7 (segmentation). That would maybe lead in Billions of $'s sunk by Airbus and a tremendous success for the 7E7. And then? Is Bigger still better?
Think twice! And perhaps both strategies are correct and valid? Think again.


Airbus is seemingly very proud that especially many of our US-a.netters flash, blame, hate, bash and bang the A 380 as it would be the combination of devil and hell in form of an airplane. Why Airbus is proud of this? Because it shows (besides uncertainty and fear concerning Boeing) a LOT of respect of these people in the abilities of Airbus. These guys don't hope but being everything but sure, that Airbus is despite all odds simply makes it happen - again.

For being "only" 30 years in the biz of civil aircraft and manufacturing "only" civil aircraft this imposing and great level of US-American respect and consciousness for their work and their abilities are a thing Airbus can really be proud of.

Thank you, guys!  Wink/being sarcastic
Best Regards,

Kojak

[Edited 2004-05-21 19:44:12]

[Edited 2004-05-21 19:45:47]


When playing cat and mice it's imperative to know, who's the cat.
User currently offlinePA110 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2017 posts, RR: 23
Reply 16, posted (10 years 7 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 6287 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

As previously stated here, the U.S. carriers have been concentrating on frequency rather than capacity. They have been downsizing aircraft so that they can operate more than one frequency to certain destinations, without flooding the market with excess capacity. This is a good strategy, because it takes maximum advantage of alliance partner banks of connections, and at the same time allows the O&D business travel greater flexibility. I can't see the U.S. majors reversing this policy anytime soon. Even NW is ultimately downsizing their 747 and DC10 service to Asia to A332 aircraft as they come into the fleet.


It's been swell, but the swelling has gone down.
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13200 posts, RR: 15
Reply 17, posted (10 years 7 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6080 times:

I would say that maybe 5-8 years from now, 2 USA based carriers will have several A380's to serve important slot restricted airports and to remain competitive with non-USA airlines. Most likely would be with those airlines that have already or will have large numbers of Airbus a/c. I could see them in/out of JFK, LAX and maybe ORD servicing LHR, various major far east and European cities. While frequency on more mid-range a/c may be desirable from some, after a while, IF demand grows, then must go to larger a/c if cannot expand frequency.

User currently offlineTaca From Costa Rica, joined Feb 2013, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (10 years 7 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6038 times:

Just a couple of questions:

Does anybody knows when is the A380 schedule to perform it's first testing flight (i.e. not exact date, but approximately)?

Which is going the very first airline receiving that beauty?

Thanks,


User currently offlinePA110 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2017 posts, RR: 23
Reply 19, posted (10 years 7 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5982 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Does anybody knows when is the A380 schedule to perform it's first testing flight (i.e. not exact date, but approximately)?

That depends on if they ever get the thing assembled. There have been numerous recent threads concerning assembly problems, thwarted by environmentalists across Europe. They can't seem to ship the wings to the main assembly plan in Toulouse due to size restrictions of the ferry boat, and then they can't seem to fly it to Hamburg for final fittings and paint without extending the runway.



It's been swell, but the swelling has gone down.
User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3516 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (10 years 7 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5977 times:

Once foreign carriers gain competetive advantage on highest load routes using 380, US ones will have to reconsider it.
Think how precious are slots at LHR. Operating 767 or 777 as a competition for 380 would not be smart.

Daniel


User currently offlineStartknob From Germany, joined May 2004, 156 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (10 years 7 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5958 times:

@Taca:
(1) 1st A380 is currently in static testing (bend the wings until they brake) and will never fly. The second one built will be the first one to fly, scheduled in spring correction! 2005. Enginge tests are underway on a A340 currently on schedule and over expectations.

(2) SQ.

Best Regards,

Kojak

[Edited 2004-05-21 20:14:43]

[Edited 2004-05-21 20:21:11]


When playing cat and mice it's imperative to know, who's the cat.
User currently offlineIrishpower From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 386 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (10 years 7 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5877 times:

Only time will tell if any US carriers will buy the A380--in the mean time "WHO CARES"!!!!--This is all speculation anyway. If the A380 is chosen by UA or NWA--GREAT, if not-FINE. Why do we ALWAYS have to fight this ridiculous campaign of "what if's".

Come on people---Boeing fan's--It doesn't matter
Airbus fan's---It doesn't matter

Both aircraft are pretty @#$#%$# COOL!!! Include in that statement the 772,773,772LR,773ER,7e7,A330,A342,A343,A345,A346!!!


User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8373 posts, RR: 23
Reply 23, posted (10 years 7 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5875 times:

Okay, for the first several lines I had no idea what you were talking about. As a result, I'm simply going to reply to your topic line: FedEx is an American operator and one of the first to order the A380, so....yeah that negates your topic right there. Otherwise, good work trying to start a riot.

THIS IS NOT MENT TO BE A VS B WAR . PLEASE. Please try to be mature about the situation.

My ass.



This Website Censors Me
User currently offlineSonicKidatBWI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (10 years 7 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5810 times:



Bjg231

I thought that most every aviation enthusiast knew the story behind the 747. as Garnetpalmetto stated, the 747 was designed in response to a need for a very large military transport for the U.S. Army. The Lockheed C-5A design won out. Boeing was then left with a very large and very capable aircraft and they converted the program towards commerical/passenger services. PanAm needed an aircraft larger than a 707 and the 747 seated twice as much. So, thus came the entry of the 747 into service with PAA.



25 N757KW : Being from a cargo carrier, I have a question. I understand that the A380F will not have a nose door. Will this change? I seem to remember the cockpit
26 Post contains images DfwRevolution : I'll be back in this forum exactly on 21st May 2010 and think that besides regular services to LAX, SFO, EWR and JFK of course there will be 380s flyi
27 Post contains images VSXA380X800 : My opinion is that you are trying to start an a vs. B war well you are absolutely wrong. Yeah that negates your topic right there. Otherwise, good wor
28 VSXA380X800 : Topic Closed, ENDED , FIN. To end all the unnessary riots Thanks for you replys and interest on the topic. This topic has died as of now
29 Nucsh : It started with one simple statement and it continued to become a A vs B war. Trying put out a positive response towards Airbus in general and what ha
30 Aaron747 : Dear god what a stupid thread - how do we get dragged into this crap?
31 DIA : I'm an American and I don't think my post was at all negative. Careful on your borderline racist remarks there. . .
32 Planesarecool : Instead of bashing a topic why don't you ignore it if you don't like it. And stop going on about all this Airbus vs. Boeing crap. The way you guys see
33 NWA742 : Dear god what a stupid thread - how do we get dragged into this crap? Just another bullshit thread, all it is. Threads like these start when a biased
34 VSXA380X800 : I SAID THANK YOU!. I have some learning to do, according to Nucsh. You not an aviation "God", stop acting like one. What the heck gave you that idea.
35 STT757 : VSXA380X800 is obviously new, my advice is to him/her is tone down the rhetoric.
36 AviatorTJ : You have a big mouth for a 13-15 yr old! Be careful not to bite off more than you can chew. Eg: This thread.
37 Post contains images Planesarecool : Oh so now we're bashing people by age. "Heh, the person who started this topic is only aged 13-15 so its bound to be completely bullshit." Like I said
38 VSXA380X800 : I know, I couldn't have been any more proud of my big mouth. I don't care what you think of me. NWA742 What in gods name are you talking about. I may
39 VSXA380X800 : You were the first person to welcome me to A.net, thank you. And I believe that the people on A.net is not usually like this. I don't really believe i
40 Post contains images VS11 : You all seem to ignore the fact the A380 will allow the airlines to offer a very different flying experience from what currently flying is. Especially
41 NWA742 : NWA742 What in gods name are you talking about. I may have a big mouth but I am absolutely not bias or racist. I have not mentioned anything negative
42 NWA742 : You all seem to ignore the fact the A380 will allow the airlines to offer a very different flying experience from what currently flying is. Especially
43 Blackbird1331 : So you want American companies to buy the 380. No problem. They will form a consortium and buy a bunch of used 380s, then they will remove the wings,
44 VS11 : NWA742, I do not think you are right. Airlines differ and those that are innovative will make a better use of the space. To the best of my knowledge,
45 Vorticity : If I can not compare the A380 to the 747,(Vorticity), why are people doing it. Than that means that the A380 is way out of the 747-400 league. Should
46 VSXA380X800 : WOULD YOU SHUT UP!!! And you say I've got a big mouth ''I'm not a fan of Boeing'' So what if i'm not a fan that doesn't mean I hate the Manufacture no
47 727200er : Ok first off the 744 is NOT a 30 year old design. There is very little that you can take from a 744 and use on a 741. They LOOK similar yes but they a
48 NWA742 : Airlines differ and those that are innovative will make a better use of the space. And you know what airlines want most to come out of the extra space
49 VSXA380X800 : --Ok first off the 744 is NOT a 30 year old design-- 35 , are you happy now ? --Now if airline A offers 1 daily service to bugtussle, with an A380 but
50 Post contains images NWA742 : --Ok first off the 744 is NOT a 30 year old design-- 35 , are you happy now ? Really, the 747-400 has been out since 1969? Wow, I must've missed 19 wh
51 Post contains images Startknob : ...really hate to break into your discussion, but I do not think, that it works out to a fruitful end the way it's running up to now. Perhaps both sid
52 VSXA380X800 : Really, the 747-400 has been out since 1969? Wow, I must've missed 19 whole years of it's existence. Can you count, can you add, subtract ??? I haven'
53 727200er : What you fail to understand is that in the American market the A380 WILL compete against smaller aircraft. It's simple economics, the issue at hand fo
54 NWA742 : Really, the 747-400 has been out since 1969? Wow, I must've missed 19 whole years of it's existence. Can you count, can you add, subtract ??? I haven'
55 Garnetpalmetto : If you look at the 747-2/3/400 you just will see a extended version of the 747-100. Maybe on the outside, but on the inside the 744 is a quantum leap
56 Cjuniel : This has to be THE MOST IGNORANT thread on airliners.net to date. The arguing back and forth is childish. We are all sick and tired of the A vs B deba
57 VSXA380X800 : Would you stop. The topic ended with 727200er( thanks) would you just stop 727200er Thanks you for helping me understand ( with out trying to bring me
58 Post contains images 727200er : Anytime, as it happens I actually remember being 13 LOL. I was pretty hotheaded at times myself.
59 Ha763 : US airlines will not need to A380 to fly into slot restricted airports. People keep bringing up LHR. Only AA and UA being the only US airlines allowed
60 VSXA380X800 : But I do have some thing to say to garnet, --Based on the fact that the changes were more than mere cosmetics, one can hardly call the 744 a 35 year o
61 Post contains images Iowa744fan : I wanted to skip this one and not post anything, but I decided to post a couple of things that will try not to tie anything into Boeing or Airbus. In
62 IHadAPheo : This thread is going in circles and is now locked, If I were to delete all the flamebait it would take me all night to do so. I should delete the whol
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