DIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 25 Posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5190 times:
In the latest Airways magazine. . .they have a large article about the E-170/175/190/195. They go on to show the E-195 in SWA colors saying that SWA is entertaining the idea of having the type in service. (I actually think that they have the picture labeled wrong. . .it looks like the E-190 to me.) Anyhow. . .(modern-day)SWA is not known to be anything but a 737 carrier. What do you think, will they actually operate the E-19X series a/c?
[Edited 2004-05-21 17:29:45]
Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
Geg2rap From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 858 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4971 times:
If you look at WN over the years they always say they are looking at the latest fads ie now IFE E195/rj's in general...but they always seem to decide to stick with what works already....I personally would be very suprised but I would figure they would wait to see JetBlue's CASM on the plane or someone else's before the commit to the project
I compare WN to the catholic church.....they do change but sure does take a while...make sure they know what they are getting into.
plus if Boeing ever does give away the farm I assume it would be to WN...and if they want a 100 seater I am sure Boeing would love to keep the "All Boeing Fleet" sticker on WN's tugs
My 2 cents
Elcapi1980 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 220 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4682 times:
I hope they can make the deals with the new emb 190 ....
the price is about 10 or more millions less than the 737, and can carry up to 110pax which is almost the capacity that needs swa....but like always, they are the ones who dacides what is better for the airline.
DeltaMD11 From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 1709 posts, RR: 30
Reply 9, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4684 times:
But does the article quote any agent of Southwest Airlines or Embraer stating that WN is considering the 190/195? Like anything, if you purport facts like that in a magazine they should be easily sourced.
Too often we ... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - John Fitzgerald Kennedy
Kwbl From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 456 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4655 times:
I would be surprised if WN goes for the 190. The purpose (as I see it FWIW) of the regional jets are to get people from small cities to the bigger cities and connect them on to somewhere else OR to connect medium to large cities where traffic is thin. In the latter example, WN can do this pretty well with their cost structure and current fleet so there would be no advantage to the 190. WN is a point-to-point carrier so they are not looking to feed pax into large hubs and connect them to other WN flights, at least in the sense that the hub-n-spoke carriers do.
OPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 4516 times:
>>>Herb is still consulting for WN..
Herb is doing more than consulting--he's still Chairman of the Board. Everyone thinks Herb completely retired and went "poof" a couple of years back, but he actually turned over 2 of his 3 titles (to Jim Parker and Colleen Barrett). Herb is still with us (and we're glad he is)...
Back to the E190 bit, even though the latest and greatest issue of "Airways" published what they did, it's stale news, given the fact that things have changed since they sent the "current" issue to the printers. Such is the nature of a periodical, especially so when it's a bi-monthly one.
Now, for a -TRUE- mystery, look at page 77 of the same Airways magazine and speculate how the wheelchair with the Southwest Airlines logo ended up in Taipei... (Really...)
RayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8247 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4375 times:
If Southwest wants a plane smaller than the 737-300/700 series, one thing they could definitely do is push for Boeing to build a lighter weight version of the 737-600. If Boeing is willing to do this Boeing could be rewarded with as many as 45-50 planes ordered, which may make the project worthwhile.
WN could buy the Embraer 190/195 series, but the plane would likely be limited to routes where maintanence is easily done.
Scottb From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 7271 posts, RR: 30
Reply 18, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4336 times:
I think Southwest is quite content to sit back and wait to see how the Embraer 190 works out at jetBlue. I'd guess that the 195 is unlikely given that it would require a third flight attendant in an all-coach configuration, so the savings in flight crew cost versus the 737 would be minimal.
You have to look at all the potential advantages and disadvantages associated with a hypothetical Embraer 190 in WN's fleet; lower acquisition costs and per-trip flight crew costs are balanced by higher training costs when pilots upgrade from the 190 to the 737, higher maintenance costs from having to train mechanics and stock parts for both, and potentially foregone revenue for flights where the company could have profitably sold more than 100 seats.
One crucial fact to remember is that the Embraer 190 is far more crucial to jetBlue's expansion potential because they chose to use the A320 rather than the A319 (which is comparable in size to the 737-700). jetBlue breaks even on average at about 73% of seats filled on a 156-seat A320 -- this works out to 114 seats per flight. Southwest breaks even (on average again) at about 62% of seats filled on a 73G -- or about 85 seats per flight. They can be nicely profitable (with margins over 10%) filling less than 100 seats. Granted, that's a bit of an oversimplification given that some flights are chronically empty while others are full 365 days a year, but the take-home message is that a smaller fleet type is far more critical for B6 given how large its basic fleet type is.
And, so far, the Embraer 190 is unproven, so there's nothing to be lost by letting someone else iron out all the bugs first. If it looks like the type is going to be a winner AND Southwest starts to run out of profitable expansion opportunities with the 73G's, maybe they'll consider it again. By jetBlue's own estimates, the CASM of the 190 is unlikely to be better than WN's 73G CASM.
OPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4303 times:
>>>If Southwest wants a plane smaller than the 737-300/700 series, one thing they could definitely do is push for Boeing to build a lighter weight version of the 737-600.
I agree. If SWA really wants (someday) a 100-seater, it has to be noted that a 122-seat 737-600 minus 3 rows of 6 seats equals a 103-seater, so theoretically, Boeing could take out a fuselage plug or two and downsize the 737-600 in the same fashion that Airbus did with the A318.
What would be interesting is how the cost of a theoretical 737-600 "Lite" would compare with the various RJs, and further, how much the commonality-driven savings associated with a 737-600 "Lite" would contribute to the equation.
Flashmeister From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2917 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4170 times:
If WN ever decided on another type, my bet is that they'd also insist on getting a mess of the new planes all at once. That causes a problem for the manufacturers, particularly Embraer with their darling new plane. If WN came knocking, would Embraer (or anyone else for that matter) be able to scramble slots together in a way that would satisfy WN?
I can't see WN getting a new type. I REALLY can't see WN getting a new type onesy-twosy over the course of many years.
Swardu From United States of America, joined May 2004, 79 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4044 times:
There was some scuttlebutt back in August where the CFO was quoted in numerous magazine articles and internet news articles where they were "INVESTIGATING" the distant possibility of looking into the ERJ190 for the small to medium markets....BUT.....and I really want to stress the BUT.....that is all that it was. It was nothing more than study, entertaining the thought, quieting the media...however you want to term it. There was also a proposal submitted along the same lines for use of an RJ to attempt to break the Wright Amendment, but as I heard it, it was dismissed as there was not a financial model available to compare ERJ usage vs. 737 usage...and going against the Wright Amendment would've been corporate suicide. I think any ideas of ERJ or CRJ usage for Southwest will be long in coming if ever.
DfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1084 posts, RR: 51
Reply 24, posted (11 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3991 times:
Could Boeing actually shrink the 736? What's the bottom line for the "too small to be safe" of the 73X design?
The 737NG family has quite a bit of room left to grow. There's that 739X that could be built, there's that 738ERX that could be built, there's that 736-Lite that could be built.... this is one old dog with an endless bag of tricks.
But, if such a purchase were to happen it would not be 20 or 30 aircraft over the next 5 years (as has been pointed out), it would be a few hundred.
Which, IMO, is why Boeing would be all over WN offering the 717. Screw an NWA order, if WN committed to the 717 line you have a potential to sell hundreds of airframes. If WN were truly looking into the E190, Boeing wouldn't just sit and let them do so without making a fuss.
The regional jet theorem-
No fuss @ Boeing = no worry @ Boeing = no E190 @ WN
There was also a proposal submitted along the same lines for use of an RJ to attempt to break the Wright Amendment,
Considering how many thousands of people WN employes, the billions of dollars in revenue for the North Texas economy... it amazes the hell out of me that the WA is still in place. AA laying people off, WN hiring them... who deserves more opperational privilages? I shoulda made myself DalRevolution...
: To me the Wright Amendment is a farse. But I did a study on the Wright Amendment, and it was put in place when WN got the authority to fly to New Orle
: Does anyone know how the e-190/195 compares price wise to a 737 or 717? Took me a while to find the Embraers, but here you go: Aircraft List Price in
: I also think it's a farce. But Southwest Embraers sure would be interesting. Maybe Huntsville would finally get Southwest service instead of having to
: im not bashing here but. If Swa did order a plane seating 95 an dreached out to smaller markets, wouldnt that clash with their business plan? i know t
: Funny thing I noticed about Herb. He is the only WN person allowed to smoke on WN premises and the ramp. What is good for the Goose...
: KcrwFlyer.... As I understand it, adding the ERJ170 or 190 would clash with the business plan in place. It would bring our cost per seat mile up to ar