747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3301 posts, RR: 2 Posted (9 years 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1935 times:
I see a lot of people do not like Boeing vs Airbus topic, what about them that get on a lot of people nerves. Personally they do not bother me, in fact I feel it is good to have a debate every now and then. For people who do not like a vs b topic this is your chance to say why.
Usatoeze From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 358 posts, RR: 2 Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1866 times:
I think the Airbus vs Boeing threads are stupid. Here are the reasons.
A. Both Airbus and Boeing make fantastic aircraft.
B. Both Airbus and Boeing receive or have received a little government help directly or indirectly from their respective governments.
C. Both Airbus and Boeing contribute jobs to people in many different countries throughout the world. In the flame wars the "Buy American" crap come out, even though Airbus employs many Americans through tiered suppliers.
D. The flame wars always seem to be based on politics and rarely on actual planes. Saying things like "Ill never fly and Airbus" is ridiculous...is that about Aviation? No its about politics...dont we all ove aircraft? Isnt that why were here?
If the threads were simply about the planes themselves, and the comments were actually intelligent dialogue regarding specifications, style, and performance of A vs B it might be interesting, but not with all the other garbage noted above that gets into it.
Vorticity From United States of America, joined May 2004, 337 posts, RR: 5 Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1835 times:
What would be nice would be to take all the best engineers from all the companies, remove all the politics and marketing, and let them design an airplane that will blow your mind!
Startknob From Germany, joined May 2004, 156 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1820 times:
Hello and welcome to "let's make thins better"
IMO, there is absolutely nothing to say against somebody here that stucks with one manufacturer. Ditto concerning certain a/c. Ditto being patriotic. Ditto with staying with the home team.
BUT - there are a lot of things I'm missing quite constantly:
(1) Respect for the topic
(2) Respect for the other users
(3) Hearsay and Rumors instead of facts and sources
(4) Respect for opinions / Not reading a thing / reiteration / ignorance
(5) Quality of discussion
(1) Respect for the topic
Numerous examples: The thread is about an a/c type of manufacturer C, the question is answered and then somebody pops up an offense and the whole BS goes on and on and on. How to resolve this? One idea:
If posts not on topic would be quite immediately being deleted I guess we all would have more healthy discussions. Give a.netters an ability to ask for deletion (field in the reply) and if 10 others fell so too, delete the post automatically.
(2) Respect for other users
Thank God this is only relatively rare but I think nobody here has the right to insult another a.netter personally. How to resolve this? One idea:
Add a button "Personal Insult!" to the posts. If there are let's say 3 (or more?) different A.netters pressing this button, the RR of the user of this post will be decreased. Short: Monitor personal insults and put them into the formula for the Respect Ratio.
(3) Hearsay and Rumors instead of facts and sources
"I've heard/read/.... that ..." with no URL of a credible source IMO is not a very good start for a thread. Neither for an answer. It happens simply too much. And instead of "What do you think?" or "Can this be true" or even "May I'm being wrong with this?" these "sources" are often taken for granted. I would really like to have more a.netters here that just do a post, when they have a substantiated question and/or a source. How to resolve this? One idea: Discipline.
(4) Respect for opinions / Not reading a thing / reiteration / ignorance
Thread starts like "is there ...... with ....?" or "What is the max. ... for ...? and asks for information. Regularily at about reply 10 to 15 all the relevant information are given and questions answered. But NO, this thread gets then 60..80 responses telling again all the same and again and again. - GREAT How to resolve this? Two ideas:
a) Before posting check, if your thoughts are not already posted. If so, fine, no need to answer anymore.
b) Give a.netters that have started a thread also the freedom and the opportunity to stop it and close it down also. Just in the last 24 hours I've seen three threads here where the thread starters claimed "OK, I know, what I wanted, thanks a lot" and then after that another Avs.B was born again. BS.
(5) Quality of discussion
That is absolute key and the most important point: If the quality goes further down the road the a.netters that are most important because they have the information so many others are just guessing about, will become sick and tired. THAT would be a major problem. How to resolve this? One idea: All of the proposed solutions above.
Just a few thoughts.
What do you think?
Best Regards,
Kojak
[Edited 2004-05-22 03:42:07]
When playing cat and mice it's imperative to know, who's the cat.
Vorticity From United States of America, joined May 2004, 337 posts, RR: 5 Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1803 times:
You don't think there is politics between engineers in the SAME company as to what is best?
Oh of course there is, I've been in some meetings where engineers just start cursing each other, and they work for the same company. Never the less, eventually they'll fight their way through and come up with good stuff, especially if they have good leadership.
VSXA380X800 From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 421 posts, RR: 2 Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1786 times:
A VS B topic is only worth it only if you have the facts and strictly stay focused on the original topic( as I learned my self, after battling for almost 11 hours).
A Vs B topic is only need when something like the 380 happens or the 7E7. Not when the manufactures are resting. I have a feeling that a.net submit the A Vs B topics to the manufactures.
A vs B topic is not need when the people who respond foolishly( as I also learned)
A Vs B topics are cool until one person( it only takes one) to slowly and unnoticeably into a A vs B war.
AATriple7 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 160 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1738 times:
What would be nice would be to take all the best engineers from all the companies, remove all the politics and marketing, and let them design an airplane that will blow your mind!
SkyWestFan From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 179 posts, RR: 5 Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1707 times:
I'm a huge debater, and I have even attended Nationals. Whenever I see an A vs. B topic, though I am an insane supporter of "one" and I formally detest "another" (I wont mention names) I think of my days debating topics like abortion or capital punishment. Frankly, the idea of slamming each other over the topic of airliner manufacturers is as more or less like slamming each other over pro life/pro choice.
The point here is, these are in fact two tremendous companies and I understand loyalty to companies (and countries for that matter) but the infamous A vs. B debates are as controversial as the aforementioned topics. No one agrees (because they love one side or the other, which is fantastic) so we have no other choice then to disrespect our fellow aviation lovers! Being disrespectful is a bad thing....
-not saying I would pass the opportunity to participate in a great A vs. B debate
VSXA380X800 From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 421 posts, RR: 2 Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 1667 times:
To add what I previously said
A Vs B topic is need to express the feelings for either manufacture.
A vs B topic is not need to cross the line between calm and settled to
outrageous and irrelevant.
VirginFlyer From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 4502 posts, RR: 50 Reply 20, posted (9 years 2 days ago) and read 1522 times:
In response to Startknob's suggestions:
1) There is already a 'Suggest Deletion' button. When you press it, it puts a link to the thread in question on the moderators' page. We can then assess the post and delete it. As for an automatic deletion feature, I don't believe that would really be a good idea - after all, ten people could decide to press the button, even though the post is not in violation of the rules.
2) Once again, this feature is probably not a good idea, because again it could be abused. If you are being personally insulted by someone, use the Suggest Deletion button. If it is an ongoing thing, send an email to the moderators (from here: http://www.airliners.net/comments/). A ban is a much more effective way of stopping someone from being a jerk than lowering their Respect Rating.
3) If you feel that there is damaging hearsay/rumours etc, use the Suggest Deletion button. Rule 8 states "If you have something to say, please do so; however be sure to mention your sources, perhaps with an HTML link or reference to a publication. If you are merely providing an opinion, please MENTION THIS in your post. We would like to avoid arguments based on rumors or misinformation." If a user cannot back up their arguments with facts, then it will likely be deleted. This has already happened at least once today. I do agree with you though - this is primarily a matter of people being disciplined.
4) If information is being posted repeatedly, then use the Suggest Deletion button. If a reply does not contribute anything to the topic, then it may be deleted. Again, this is primarily an issue of people having a bit of discipline - reading "I haven't read the previous 50 replies, but I think..." annoys me as much as it annoys you!
5) Unfortunately this does happen. And yes, you are right, the best way to maintain the quality is for people to have a bit of discipline. If you see something which you feel should be deleted, please use the Suggest Deletion button. The moderators are only human, and we can miss stuff when we read through the forums. If you suggest deletion, however, you can be assured that it will come to our attention.
-----
As for the topic at hand, A vs B topics are generally a waste of time. They invariably descend into name calling, politicking, and sometimes outright racism. It wastes the moderators' time, which makes it harder for us to stop various other things going on, and which means the general quality of the forum is lowered.
So please, before anyone thinks about starting an Airbus vs Boeing topic, consider the nuisance it creates for everyone. If your post is factual and not inflamatory, then by all means go ahead and post it. But if it is simply flamebait, then be prepared for the post to be deleted, and if you are a repeat offender, your account to be suspended.
V/F
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
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Never the less, eventually they'll fight their way through and come up with good stuff, especially if they have good leadership.
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