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How Will AF Sell 2-class Caribbean Routes?  
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (10 years 3 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2150 times:

I'm aware that on some of AF's Caribbean routes (e.g., SXM in this case), they sell the 3-class aircraft as Biz, Econ+, and Econ.... instead of F/C/Y.

Once all non-777s are transferred to two-class seating only, how will they offer the aforementioned service? All Y+/Y, or J/Y?

...anyone?


15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 3 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2051 times:

Also, now that I think about it.... anyone know the total number of 3class destinations that are sold in this manner?

User currently offlineFLYSSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7412 posts, RR: 57
Reply 2, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1952 times:

ConcordeBoy,

The first B744, equipped in J/Y configuration is already in service on the CDG-HAV. (F-GITJ : 40J/393Y )

40J are sold as...Business. The 57 Y seats at the U/D are sold as "Alizee Class" (Eco +), the rest as Eco-

The seats are the same (even now) in "S" (Alizee Class) and "M" (Vacances). Only the the service is different...


User currently offlineCx123 From Australia, joined May 2004, 695 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1919 times:

When is AF upgrading its J and F Class. I saw the pictures and press release last year but haven't heard anything since?

Also what is this Economy Plus???


User currently offlineFLYSSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7412 posts, RR: 57
Reply 4, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 1860 times:

The reconfiguration has already started. Some A343 and A332 are already modified, as well as one B744 (actually the last one delivered to AF last April, and fitted already with the new seats config.)
The two new B777-300ER are also configured with the new seats.

"Economy Plus" is in fact a class called "Alizée". It is sold only on flight from/to CDG to/fom French Overseas Departement : FDF,PTP,RUN,CAY,SXM. and "sun/leisure" destinations : SQD, HAV, MRU, PUJ.

There is no First class product on these flights. Just Business/Alizée/Vacances.

Alizée is a "premium" economy, with a Y seat but better pitch and better inflight service, similar to the "normal" economy on other destinations.
"Vacances" is a discount economy : No magazines, no Champagne, no choice of hot main dish etc...


User currently offlineCba From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 4531 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1768 times:

http://airtransportbiz.free.fr/AF/NewCabins.html

Air Transport Biz has an excellent description of AF's new cabins in general.



User currently offlineCx123 From Australia, joined May 2004, 695 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1738 times:

So they are just taking out something and just call it a premium product to charge extra $$$???

On the AF website they don't have any information on the new F and J Class?

Does anyone have pics of the new seats?


User currently offlineSpike From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 1170 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1729 times:

Those routes will be going to KLM as they have a better Caribbean network. I would suspect KLM will keep the superior 3 class system on the long-hauls.

User currently offlineAq737 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 612 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1664 times:

KLM has only offered 2-class on all of its international flights for a while now.

User currently offlineLJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4429 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1599 times:

Those routes will be going to KLM as they have a better Caribbean network. I would suspect KLM will keep the superior 3 class system on the long-hauls.

I highly doubt KLM will take over any Carribean flight from AF (or vice cersa). Not only is AF much bigger in the Carribean but most Carribean traffic from both KLM and AF is point-to-point traffic (holiday or "ethnic" traffic).


User currently offlineGlobetrekker From Netherlands, joined Dec 2003, 851 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 1522 times:

I also agree with LJ on that, however the big question remains SXM.
SXM is the only destination in the Caribbean on which KL and AF competed on. AF has daily service and KL twice weekly service.

As of June 1st all KL and AF flights to the Caribbean will carry the other airline two letter code. So they are now officially AF/KL flights. A decision will be taken soon, but I think that AF will continue to serve SXM while KL will stick to AUA, BON and CUR.



The World Is A Book And Those Who Do Not Travel Read Only A Page
User currently offlineLJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4429 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1458 times:

As of June 1st all KL and AF flights to the Caribbean will carry the other airline two letter code. So they are now officially AF/KL flights. A decision will be taken soon, but I think that AF will continue to serve SXM while KL will stick to AUA, BON and CUR.

Globetrekker, I don't agree. The SXM flight is full of holidaymakers and there is one thing holiday makers don't like and that's transfering at a foreign airport.


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1434 times:

40J are sold as...Business. The 57 Y seats at the U/D are sold as "Alizee Class" (Eco +), the rest as Eco-

I see... and what of the A340s?

Or will they discontinue Caribbean/sunny destinations once the 744s are all reconfigured?


User currently offlineGlobetrekker From Netherlands, joined Dec 2003, 851 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1412 times:

-LJ,

If I understand you correctly, you think that AF and KL will both keep serving SXM? That seems unlikely to me. You argument is that holiday makers will not like transferring at CDG to fly AF to SXM?

If there is no KLM to SXM anymore, they won't have much choice. And unlike KL, AF seems to have no problem filling their flights to SXM, a daily service. While when KL started their non-stop AMS-SXM-AMS service it was quickly discontinued due to poor loads.

However, you may be right, but only time will tell.As of now all AF flights to SXM have a KL prefix and all KL flight have a AF prefix also. In SXM they are still handled seperately by different ground handlers, however when one of the contracts ends, one ground handler will be chosen to handle all AF/KL flights. So combined AF and KL have nine weekly flights to SXM.

GT



The World Is A Book And Those Who Do Not Travel Read Only A Page
User currently offlineFLYSSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7412 posts, RR: 57
Reply 14, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1373 times:

AF & KLM will both continue to serve SXM.
AF is 6xWeekly nonstop to SXM from CDG (Daily during the European Winter season).
St-Martin/Marteen is a Franco-Dutch Island and has to be served from AMS.

ConcordeBoy, the A340, after being reconfigured will continue to serve SXM, and CAY...and maybe more "sun destination" as the cabin configuration (without the First Class) will be more adapted to that kind of line.


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1343 times:

the A340, after being reconfigured will continue to serve SXM, and CAY...and maybe more "sun destination" as the cabin configuration (without the First Class) will be more adapted to that kind of line.

All of a sudden jumping from 8 biz seats to nearly 40...??

Or will it continue to sell the cabins as S&M? [ Laugh out loud]


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