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VS To Go With Boeing Or Airbus?  
User currently offlineBCAInfoSys From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (10 years 3 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5306 times:

Hey guys.. I figured this would've already been brought up, but I haven't seen anything on it.

It looks like VS (Virgin Atlantic) is shopping to replace the A343s; presumably for increased capacity. When I first heard of a VS order, my very first thought was "Oh great, no competition there; that one'll go to Airbus for sure."

But then I read the article from the Sunday Times (London) that gave me a shred of hope that maybe Boeing will get this one after all. Particularly this qoute from the article:

"In its recent aircraft purchases, Virgin has been an Airbus stalwart, buying the A380 and new versions of the A340. But industry sources said last night that it could this time go for Boeing and buy a stretched version of its large twin-jet, the 777."

I mean, a.netters have speculated about a VS 777 order for a while now, but now it's in the open press. Does that mean anything? Any thoughts on which way this one'll go? Comments?

Steve

30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBusinessBoy From Norway, joined Mar 2004, 211 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (10 years 3 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5235 times:

I dont think that they will go for Boeing, they're are probably tryin' to scare Airbus to hell and tryin' to make Airbus give VS a good deal on some newer A340's.... Thats what i think..
And, i couldnt imagine to see the 777 in VS livery, just doesnt fit inn.

Anyway, these are my thoughts.

BusinessBoy

[Edited 2004-05-24 19:01:59]


LOVE CONTINENTAL AIRLINES & LOVE BRITISH AIRWAYS
User currently offlineSNATH From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3238 posts, RR: 22
Reply 2, posted (10 years 3 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5221 times:

I'm a Boeing fan. And I do hope VS goes with B777s. However, I can't see it
happen. As far as I can see, they are using a potential B777 order as leverage
to get a better package from Airbus (see what Iberia did). And if they do go with
B777s how will that fit with their "4 engines 4 long-haul" slogan? I suppose they
can change it to "2 engines 2 do long-haul".  Big thumbs up

I wish I'm wrong...

Tony



Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5767 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (10 years 3 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5128 times:

I, for one, am also pushing a 777 order. BUT- like AA did with the A300s and 767s, I imagine that they are just twisting Airbus's arm.
R


User currently offlineGreg From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (10 years 3 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5081 times:

It will come down to price.
Essentially, there is nothing a 777-300SP can do that the 340-600 can't.
They are both fine aircraft....so it will come down to the terms of the purchase.


User currently offlineHirnie From Germany, joined May 2004, 594 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (10 years 3 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5016 times:

I agree with the others.I think VS tries to get the busses a bit cheaper.
But who knows,suddenly VS goes with Boeing...They are good for a surprise any time  Big grin


User currently offline767-332ER From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2030 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (10 years 3 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4942 times:


Boeing was VS's money maker for a long time!!! How could they go wrong with getting the 777 if they are looking to replace their A340s?
Regards



Twinjets...if one fails, work the other one twice as hard!!!
User currently offlineRichard28 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2003, 1616 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (10 years 3 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4844 times:

How could they go wrong with getting the 777 if they are looking to replace their A340s?

off the top of my head....

- increased costs of new simulators/pilot training
- pilots will have to be authorised on this type only, rather than both A343 and a346
- I understand that (correct me if wrong!) cabin crew may not be able to operate a further type per CAA rules.
- another engine type into the mix
- maintenance/engineering will need new training on type
- design of interiors to fit new type.

Not saying it wont happen, just answering your question!

Having said above, I think the order could go either way  Smile

Rich.


User currently offlineGreg From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (10 years 3 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4792 times:

Look for a sweetheart deal for widebodies and the 50 plane Virgin USA deal. It appears that the elimination of Boeing from the narrowbody competition was a bit premature as stated earlier. They are back in it....

User currently offlineHZ747300 From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2004, 1660 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (10 years 3 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4734 times:
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I love the title of this post. Sadly, with the L1011 gone from the market, VS of course would have to go with Boeing or Airbus. Unless of course they throw us a curveball and choose the IL-86 for their new long haul fleet.

I still want to fly on a A340-300 series to see if the performance is as bad as I think it is from the size of the engines in compared to the aircraft. I am going from solely as how I view the aircraft.



Keep on truckin'...
User currently offlineBCAInfoSys From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (10 years 3 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4651 times:

Oh wow.. I completely forgot about the potential Virgin USA order. That will be a HUGE order for either Boeing or Airbus, whoever ends up getting it. Around 20 widebodies for VS, and 50 planes for Virgin USA.. my head is spinning at the potential that could do for helping Boeing to getting back in the game...  Nuts

I'm obviously biased towards wanting Boeing to get this one, but I think they're a long shot.. I still have this gut feeling that Airbus will get this one and us Boeing-folks will never hear the end of it.


User currently offlineStarrion From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1126 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (10 years 3 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4617 times:

Where did you guys see that Boeing is back in the Virgin USA order? I thought it had been published that Boeing was out.

I did a search on the forums and didn't see anything.



Knowledge Replaces Fear
User currently offlineAirxLiban From Lebanon, joined Oct 2003, 4511 posts, RR: 53
Reply 12, posted (10 years 3 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 4603 times:

Speculation, speculation...

HOWEVER...didn't Virgin express discontent with the A340-600? (Or am i thinking of SA, CX or IB?)

If thats the case, why would they go for more of them?

I would LOVE to see a VS 773 order to replace those stale A343s.

i dont think the 4 engines 4 long haul would stand in the way if the deal was good.

Boeing and Airbus are obviously both in talks with Virgin and VS is expected to announce their decision before the end of summer.

I would most like to see a collection of 777-31R(ER)s and 737s for this one.

Has anyone seen an impression of a VS 773?



PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (10 years 3 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4518 times:

i dont think the 4 engines 4 long haul would stand in the way if the deal was good

...that would be forgotten faster than the fact that the 763ER was opping VS flights throughout the late 90s  Laugh out loud


User currently offlineRyanb741 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 3221 posts, RR: 16
Reply 14, posted (10 years 3 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4516 times:

They will almost certainly go for the Airbuses - I actually think the 4 engines 4 long haul slogan will be critical. Personally, give me a 773 over an A340 any day (BTW, am I the only person left who still thinks the 744 is just about the greatest long haul aircraft out there despite being 'outdated?)


I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
User currently offlineGreg From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (10 years 3 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4344 times:

After being public about working with Airbus on the VirginUS deal...Branson had specifically stated in the news that both manufacturers are being considered.

I think this would give Boeing the greatest possibility of getting both the 773 and 73NG's placed with the carrier.


User currently offlineFrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3741 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (10 years 3 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4316 times:

I don't know, VS already operates a lot of a340's of both the -300 and the -600 version. It would seem illogical (to Dr Spock) to operate yet another type in the fleet.

I do like the new stretched 777 though, I think it'd look good in the VS livery...



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineRaginMav From United States of America, joined May 2004, 376 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (10 years 3 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4262 times:

If this were just a toss up between the A340 and the 773ER, I'd have to say they'll stick with the 340.

However, has VS ruled out the 744? If they're unhappy enough to stop procuring the 340, would it be more advantageous to give up a bit of efficiency (with the 744 vs. the 773ER) and not have to add another type to their fleet?

I realize that adding a third (fourth, if you count the 343 and 346 separately) type would not be a big deal if they plan on ridding themselves of the 340's, but as I understand it, this is not the plan.

Just a thought, any opinions?


User currently offlineLEO777 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 112 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (10 years 3 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4220 times:

Ryanb the 744 is the greatest aircraft in the world, and let me correct you the 744 is not outdated, its very high tech like other competitive widebodies. The thing that may be outdated is the body but even that is fairly recent since the upper portion got extended. This is the best aircraft in the world and most recognizeable in the world. Boeing needs to put more emphasis to keep the 747 line going. Or else..............


You got to be careful if you don't know where you're going, because you might not get there.
User currently offlineSoaringadi From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 472 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (10 years 3 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4189 times:

What I think is that they would probably looking for versatality in their fleet, and if they are going to retire their 744's, they could probably go ahead and buy some 777's. Or else they would be an "only Airbus" fleet.

weather is good  Smile



If it ain't Boeing, I'm not going !
User currently offlineMATURRO727 From Colombia, joined Apr 2004, 304 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (10 years 3 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4183 times:

Hey !





IM a Boeing fan ! I hope VS goes for 773, 773 in VS scheme ! GREAT !!!


User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 968 posts, RR: 51
Reply 21, posted (10 years 3 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4142 times:

Essentially, there is nothing a 777-300SP can do that the 340-600 can't.

I assume you mean 777-300ER? Because there is no 773SP that I am aware of...

I dont think that they will go for Boeing, they're are probably tryin' to scare Airbus to hell and tryin' to make Airbus give VS a good deal on some newer A340's.... Thats what i think..

There have been bigger shockers. Look who is the only non-Asian customer of the 773ER.... Air France.

Ryanb the 744 is the greatest aircraft in the world, and let me correct you the 744 is not outdated, its very high tech like other competitive widebodies

It is still an early 80s design, against late 80s/early 90s for the A340 and 777 respectivly. The 773ER comes very close to the payload, range, and economics of many 744s.

I, for one, am also pushing a 777 order. BUT- like AA did with the A300s and 767s, I imagine that they are just twisting Airbus's arm.

I'd love a 777 order, but I am by no means holding my breath. I suspect the bargining tactic as well. Then again, remember than SQ is also looking at the 773ER and the "relationship" they have with VA. And lets face it, Branson wants to make money. If the 773ER will make him more money, then he will buy it.


User currently offlineCPDC10-30 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2000, 4780 posts, RR: 23
Reply 22, posted (10 years 3 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4094 times:

If I remember correctly, all of VS's 343s are leased, no? If that is the case, I have a thought that no one else seems to be coming up with here. Would VS be willing to replace their old 343s with the new 343E (such as delivered to South African)? This would truly minimize migration costs - much more so over other aircraft while marginally improving performance. Or are they really looking for an aircraft with higher capacity? I think it is a bit risky having a A346/773 as your smallest aircraft - espescially for opening new routes.

User currently offlineVorticity From United States of America, joined May 2004, 337 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (10 years 3 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4067 times:

I think it could go either way. It could be serious that they are considering 777s, or they could just be leaking that info, for any number of reasons, including putting pressure on Airbus. It's in VS's best interesting to provoke competition because it probably ends up a better deal for them.

They are both great planes, though I would like to see the 777 in VS colors. We'll find out the real answer soon enough, good luck to the sales people at Airbus and Boeing  Smile



Thermodynamics and english units don't mix...
User currently offlineAirxLiban From Lebanon, joined Oct 2003, 4511 posts, RR: 53
Reply 24, posted (10 years 3 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4014 times:

the idea is that the new aircraft order will replace the A340-300s AND add additional capacity.

it would appear as though VS has 9 A340-300s. This new aircraft order is said to be for 20 widebodies. That is an increase of 11 aircraft and a major increase in capacity even before the A380s arrive (pushed back a year now apparently).

Does anyone think that VS might split the deal for 50 narrowbodies and 20 widebodies into the two manufacturers?

Was it Virgin Atlantic that expressed dissatisfaction with the A340-600?

I'm still pining for a 777-31R(ER) order. I wouldn't mind seeing those A340-600s take a long walk either. Too bloody long for its own good! Not that the 773 is short and stubby...



PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
25 Squirrel83 : I have herd that VS will order 7E7's, that is sketchy but I would love it it would be kewl but as stated in previous posts they will most likly order
26 Post contains images PC12Driver : The bottom line is: Which aircraft is going be able to be operated most economically? Airlines are a business. The goal is to make money. The decision
27 AirxLiban : Ok i figured out what virgin are getting from an inside source.... 20 Il-96s converted passenger and 50 Tu-154s.
28 RayChuang : I think VS would likely go for the A340-600HGW when that becomes available in 2006. With its much lighter wing and longer range (I believe Airbus want
29 Ramerinianair : "It Doesn't fit"?????? You are trying to say that the 777 doesn't belon in VS colors???? I HAVE SOME NEWS FOR YOU BUSINESSBOY . . . If there is a need
30 EAL757 : I wish like heck that VS would get the 777, mainly because of my complete disregard of the A340, but doesn't the triple 7 cost much more than an A340?
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