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Israeli Flights Next To Islamic Country Flights  
User currently offlineUal747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 11 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4293 times:

Are airport officials sympathetic to Israeli and Islamic country flights being at gates next to each other? Or do they seperate them? Simple question, just wondering what the proceedure is. I know last time I was at LHR, AA was next to EK, though EK is a fairly moderate country.

UAL747

[Edited 2004-05-24 19:41:07]

49 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7329 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (9 years 11 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4212 times:
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In the late 1980s, an El Al parked next to a MEA 707 at MAN (admittedly the MEA was on a sub-charter for a British airline so "absent-mindedness" may have ocurred)

David


User currently offlineRjnut From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1193 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 11 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4135 times:

I boarded a Turkish flight from Istanbul to Tel Aviv and we shared a gate area with Iran Air to Tehran. with no problem
I think most people in this world are civilized and dont get worked up over suc h things.. It's the governments and the minority extremists that get sensitive to these "issues".


User currently offlineL410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5599 posts, RR: 20
Reply 3, posted (9 years 11 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4021 times:

I guess that would be rally too much. LY flights being forced to avoid certain airspaces is bad enough. Does any Arab/Muslim country actually allow LY flights to pass through its airspace? Turkey?

User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11151 posts, RR: 59
Reply 4, posted (9 years 11 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4000 times:

I see Arab airlines parked next to El Al or flights heading to Israel often.

In Frankfurt, I saw a Gulf Air A340-300 parked right next to an El Al 767-300ER.

Does any Arab/Muslim country actually allow LY flights to pass through its airspace? Turkey?

Turkey, Egypt, and Jordan. All have peace agreements with Israel.

Regards



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineRyanb741 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 3221 posts, RR: 16
Reply 5, posted (9 years 11 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3999 times:

I would have thought Turkey and Jordan would allow Israeli airlines into their airspace as they have fairly decent relations with Israel.

Anyway, I have seen an El Al 744 at LHR next to a Gulf Air A340 (The UAE doesn't recognise Israel) so I'm sure that's not an issue. It's not like they're going to start shooting at each other!



I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
User currently offlineRyanb741 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 3221 posts, RR: 16
Reply 6, posted (9 years 11 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3989 times:

Damn, BA beat me to it  Sad


I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
User currently offlineRyanb741 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 3221 posts, RR: 16
Reply 7, posted (9 years 11 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3968 times:

BTW I once got off an Emirates flight at LHR T3 and a 747 from Air India and another from PIA had just deboarded. There was no hostility between the 2 sets of pax in immigration. 99.9% of the population are civilised, it's just a few morons spoiling it for everybody else.


I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
User currently offlineSU184 From Egypt, joined Feb 2004, 235 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (9 years 11 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3940 times:

To add more, LY flies to Cairo about 3 times weekly, and AirSinai ( EgyptAir operation to Israel ) flies to Tel Aviv. No problems. At ORY, LY with all arab airlines ( Tunis Air, Air Algerie, EgyptAir, RAM ) in the same terminal. Life is easy and only complicated by those who want to.

User currently offlineL410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5599 posts, RR: 20
Reply 9, posted (9 years 11 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3919 times:

I was really surprised, when I found out that Lebanon will not let a person accross its border if that person's passport has a stamp from Israel. I knew that Syria and Saudi Arabia does the same thing, but they are notorious hardcore Israel-haters. But Lebanon? Watching commercials on CNN promoting Lebanon as multicultural, tolerant country I thought they were not so low.

Ryanb1: For some reason I always thought that Gulf Air was owned by some British company!?


User currently offlineRyanb741 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 3221 posts, RR: 16
Reply 10, posted (9 years 11 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3906 times:

Gulf Air is owned by the United Arab Emirates Government AFAIK.


I used to think the brain is the most fascinating part of my body. But, hey, who is telling me that?
User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 11 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3895 times:

At Frankfurt, LY between SV, EK and KU:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Konstantin von Wedelstaedt



Patrick


User currently offlineRichard28 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2003, 1596 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (9 years 11 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3862 times:

I think I am correct in saying that in th 70's/80's El Al and SAA were both kept away from other airlines at LHR, by placing them away from other longhaulers at Terminal 1.

Is there truth in this, or is it just how things panned out because of lack of gates?


User currently offlineOD720 From Lebanon, joined Feb 2003, 1924 posts, RR: 33
Reply 13, posted (9 years 11 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3806 times:

L410Turbolet,

It's a policy adopted by Lebanon and many other Arab countries as well.

I know a few people (Americans) who've had a very difficult time in Israel after Lebanese stamps were seen in their passports.

Regarding the main topic, as a few people who already mentioned, people don't seem to really mind which is a good thing.

Regards.


User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11151 posts, RR: 59
Reply 14, posted (9 years 11 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3669 times:

I was really surprised, when I found out that Lebanon will not let a person accross its border if that person's passport has a stamp from Israel. I knew that Syria and Saudi Arabia does the same thing, but they are notorious hardcore Israel-haters. But Lebanon? Watching commercials on CNN promoting Lebanon as multicultural, tolerant country I thought they were not so low.

Lebanon is a multicultural and tolerant country. We do have Jews who have equal rights as with the Muslims and Christians.

Lebanon's problem is with Israel, not the Jews. Remember that Israel occupied southern Lebanon for 19 years. Lebanese hardly feel warm about Israel their southern neighbor. They also send spies into Lebanon all the time.

It's nothing but politics.

All of the Arab countries except Jordan and Egypt do the same thing. Turkey does the same as well, but they are not an Arab country.  Smile

Regards



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineL410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5599 posts, RR: 20
Reply 15, posted (9 years 11 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3621 times:

BA: It's kind of shortsighted measure, don't you think? I can't think of a way this should harm Israel and Lebanon is only punishing third, uninvolved party, let's say a businessman from Vanuatu (a potentuial spy?), who just happens to have a stamp from his last business trip to TLV. Not exactly a way to attract tourists!

Are you sure that Turkey has the same rule regarding Israeli stamps? Doesn't seem likely to me!


User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11151 posts, RR: 59
Reply 16, posted (9 years 11 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3568 times:

It's kind of shortsighted measure, don't you think? I can't think of a way this should harm Israel and Lebanon is only punishing third, uninvolved party, let's say a businessman from Vanuatu (a potentuial spy?), who just happens to have a stamp from his last business trip to TLV. Not exactly a way to attract tourists!

You do have a point and I am not denying it. Let's just all hope their is peace one day.

The reason why Lebanon enforces this ruling is really a matter of national security. Israel has sent many spies in the past and their are many already in Lebanon. They either come in with fake passports or higher non-Israelis living outside to do spy work.

So either way, as you said, it is ineffective.

True that it does not help in tourism, but their are many who have not visited Israel yet. These can visit Lebanon without any problems. So it affects a small percentage of tourists compared to the total number out there.

I think this article would interest you:
http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=1&categ_id=3&article_id=4184

Are you sure that Turkey has the same rule regarding Israeli stamps? Doesn't seem likely to me!

I meant Turkey is the same as Jordan and Egypt in that they will allow Israeli stamps.

Regards



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineRihannsu From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 14 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 11 months 2 days ago) and read 3316 times:

Actually, we (the USA) give problems to people from other countries with Cuban stamps... Just an observation  Smile

User currently offlineCXA330300 From South Africa, joined May 2004, 1553 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (9 years 11 months 2 days ago) and read 3288 times:

This whole passport-stamp thing is utterly ridiculous. The Lebanese are afraid because they might be a spy, which is highly unlikely, and the Israelis are afraid of terrorists, which is also rather unlikely. I have always wanted to visit Lebanon, and alas, I can't, an Israeli stamp in my passport, and as of July, two.
Lebanon is actually a very multicultural country, just is, it's overshadowed by Syria. If Lebanon were to make peace with Israel, Syria would get very angry, and we all know the consequences. It's not a complete matter of choice for Lebanon.



The sky is the limit as long as you can stay there
User currently offlineWGW2707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1197 posts, RR: 35
Reply 19, posted (9 years 11 months 2 days ago) and read 3246 times:

What about Bahrain? Someone told me they expel anybody with an Israeli passport. Do they give Americans a hard time too? It was sickening seeing them get to host a Formula One event too. It was no different from the Nazis showing off at the 1936 Olympics. And no, I didn't watch the F1 race and I never will.

Why? I fail to see how not allowing persons to enter a country with an Israeli passport could be likened to the Nazis at the 1936 Olympics. It is a problem with a specific country, not with the Jews in general. It arguably is unfortunate that the only state with a Jewish-majority is Israel as that exposes the entire Jewish population to criticism for the affairs of a single country that a substantial number of them have nothing to do with.

The fact is that since its UN-enforced creation in 1948, the modern day state of Israel has proven a complete lack of ability when it comes to harmonious relations with its neighbors. I would argue that after experiencing to the fullest degree the horror of World War II the new Jewish settlers in Palestine would have been well-served by creating a country that was a model of pacifist neutrality, tolerance and cooperation with neighbors, similiar to Switzerland or Scandinavia. Instead, the government of the new state fought a series of bloody wars with most of the surrounding countries, developed nuclear weapons illegally, and inspired a lasting and perhaps unmutable resentment from the Arab governments.

BTW, the solution for those of you who want to visit Arab countries but have an Israeli stamp in your passport is to replace your passport or alternately when entering Israel request that the customs officers place the stamp on a seperate sheet of paper, which apparently is a request they will honor most of the time...

-WGW2707



User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11151 posts, RR: 59
Reply 20, posted (9 years 11 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3219 times:

The Lebanese are afraid because they might be a spy, which is highly unlikely

Their are hundredss of Israeli spies in Lebanon and Lebanese Intelligence catch a couple every month.

Lebanon is actually a very multicultural country, just is, it's overshadowed by Syria. If Lebanon were to make peace with Israel, Syria would get very angry, and we all know the consequences. It's not a complete matter of choice for Lebanon.

I disagree. Syria overshadowing Lebanon has been greatly exaggerated by the west. Yes, Syria is involved in our politics, but not the way the west portrays it.

Lebanese have harsher feelings towards Israel than Syrians do towards Israel. Two major massacres were comitted in Lebanon done by Israel. The Sabra and Chatilla massacre and the more recent Qana massacre. Syria hasn't experienced anything close to what Lebanon has....

By the way, it was agreed by the Arab League that the other 20 Arab nations (excluding Jordan and Egypt) would sign peace with Israel together at the same time. It would be a joint peace agreement. Not individual to each country.

If you wanted to visit Lebanon. I would have suggested you visit Lebanon first, then visit Israel. While Israel on MOST circumstances will allow visitors with Arab stamps in their passport, expect a lot of interrogation. And I mean a lot.

By the way, if you ever do visit Lebanon. I highly suggest you visit Syria as well. An equally fascinating country with very very friendly people. The Syrian border is less than 3 hours from Beirut.

Very well said WGW2707.

Regards

[Edited 2004-05-26 06:09:55]


"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineHaveric From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1247 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (9 years 11 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3166 times:

Hmmm. Didn't realize that I was considered a spy. Kinda cool, I guess.

User currently offlineTubbyboeing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 11 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3160 times:

I have seen an ELAL B767 parked next to an Emirates A330 or B777 at JNB many times. No worries at all, they are just different carriers from different countries parked next to each other.

Regards


User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11151 posts, RR: 59
Reply 23, posted (9 years 11 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3137 times:

What about Bahrain? Someone told me they expel anybody with an Israeli passport. Do they give Americans a hard time too? It was sickening seeing them get to host a Formula One event too. It was no different from the Nazis showing off at the 1936 Olympics. And no, I didn't watch the F1 race and I never will.

All of the 21 Arab nations (22 if you include the Palestinian National Authority) except Jordan and Egypt will not allow you to enter if you have an Israeli stamp in your passport whether used, unused, valid, or invalid. If you are an Israeli passport holder, you also aren't allowed.

The exception for MOST of the Arab countries however is if you belong in a large tour group that has been pre-approved. In that case, you can visit the country even if you have an Israeli stamp. My suggestion for those who have visited Israel is if they want to visit an Arab country, join a large tour group, be sure to inquire that you will be allowed to enter however.

I don't know about other Arab countries, but in Lebanon, if you have an Israeli stamp, you can transit in Beirut International Airport without leaving the airport. You are entitled a maximum of a 24 hour stay in the airport.

The airlines are instructed to check passports thoroughly before boarding and make sure passengers who are traveling do not have an Israeli stamp or are using an Israeli passport. If for whatever reason the airline doesn't notice a stamp an a passenger actually flies to the Arab country and is caught by passport control, you will be put on the return flight. Not really a big deal. However, if you are convicted of spying for the Israeli Mossad, you'll be thrown in jail and put in trial. This happened in Lebanon about a year ago. A Canadian had entered Lebanon and had an Israeli stamp. His luggage was thoroughly checked and they found some "suspicious" papers. He also had a suspicious business card from Israel with him. I don't know any details however. He was put on trial, and eventually was found not guilty and was sent back to Canada. But there have been times in which spies were caught.

Hope this clears everything regarding the passport issue.

Regards



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineEK345 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 years 11 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3127 times:

I was once travelling to Jeddah from LHR T4 and the gate next to our was another BA flight to Tel Aviv.

By the way, I think you summed it up in a nutshell, WGW2707.

EK345




"and miles to go before I sleep..."
25 Gabrielz : Although this continues to be off-topic, I feel compelled to respond... WGW2707, your "assessment" of the history of the state of Israel is flawed and
26 Alessandro : Also Iraqi stamp can mean problem in some arab countries, like UAE?
27 Post contains links and images UTA_flyinghigh : Also Iraqi stamp can mean problem in some arab countries, like UAE? That's why some foreign countries issue 2 passports to their nationals travelling
28 Windshear : I have seen pictures of an ELY 777 and a SVA 777 parked next to each other at JFK...ELY never dock connected to a gate, they do board, but don't park
29 Mjszanto : WGW2707, First of all to correct you in the 1956 war, Egypt blockaded Israel's water access cutting off most of its trade effectively starving it. Fra
30 Voodoo : Richard28 wrote: I think I am correct in saying that in th 70's/80's El Al and SAA were both kept away from other airlines at LHR, by placing them awa
31 Post contains images L410Turbolet : What rally strikes me is the ill logic of that "Israeli stamp" measure. Is any responsible official in Arab country convinced that they will harm Isra
32 EuroLeb : Guys you are going way off topic here. Let's hope that one day there will be peace between Israel and the other 20 Arabic countries. In my opinion, th
33 CXA330300 : If you wanted to visit Lebanon. I would have suggested you visit Lebanon first, then visit Israel. While Israel on MOST circumstances will allow visit
34 QR332 : There was also a lot of trouble before Saddams regime if you went to Kuwait with an Iraqi stamp and vice versa, its all politics. CXA, When Someone po
35 Targowski : i think the agreement would be that all of the arab countries would normalize relations with israel with full embassies and diplomacy, trade, etc if i
36 Airzim : Although it may be official policy to not allow people into certain countries if you have an Israeli stamp in your passport, I can assure you that in
37 LTBEWR : Getting back to the topic here...I would assume at airports like JFK, LHR, FRA and others where a/c of El Al, and airlines of Islamic countries are cl
38 Post contains images Windshear : Em cough cough...There was a question and all of a suddon we start discussing 1967 and The Golan heights... CXA I have an Egyptian stamp in my passpor
39 Avi : WGW2707, you should be shamed of your self. You are a crew member and still your posts here have nothing to do with aviation (and this is an aviation
40 Dirkou : >I believe that the current state of Israel does not properly represent the >interests of its own people, nor does it represent the interests of the w
41 Stefandotde : But WGW is absolutely right, Avi - so why are you angry? And BA a hopeless case? Cause he has another opinion as you have? Israel always says it's the
42 Stefandotde : By the way, when I was in Israel in 1992, I got a sheet of paper, they added my passport number and made a stamp on the paper, so I only had to show t
43 Ultrapig : I was about to agree with Avi when I read Dirkou's post. Jews have resided in the area now called Israel for 3200 years. During WWII Jews discovered t
44 Stefandotde : Well said, Ultrapig: Europe has exterminated Jews ... (not only Germany). But a shame: Germany did the most and in a very horrible way. But that can't
45 Avi : Stefan, I don’t have problems with BA opinions (well, I do, but he does have the right to post them but this is the civil aviation forum. This is no
46 Stefandotde : I wanted to send him an E-Mail cause I also think that we shouldn't post political statements. Somebody started (Anti-Arabic) and so it continued. Als
47 Iad777 : WGW2707- Stop with your political rants--this isn't the place for such rants--especially when they are riddled with historical inaccuracies.
48 Post contains images Stefandotde : Why don't we stop discussion here? IAD777 - WGW isn't that wrong Even if you don't wanna hear it.
49 Dirkou : >Jews have resided in the area now called Israel for 3200 years. Indians resided in America before the white came (250 years ago only it was indian la
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