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AR Announce $558.7 Million Fleet Revamp  
User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 38
Posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3750 times:

Aerolineas Argentinas (AR) announced at a press conference in Buenos Aires this morning a major fleet rennovation plan, and will invest US$557.8 million for the acquisition of 49 new planes over the next 5 years, transforming AR into the largest Boeing operator in Latin America.

AR Vice-President José María Llodrá stipulated that the 32 B737-200s currently in service will be gradually replaced between 2004 and 2007 by B737-300s and B737-500s, while the B747-200s will be replaced by B747-400s, one of which is already in service with another due to arrive in the 1st week of June and two more in September and January 2005 respectively.

This year, AR has signed contracts with Boeing for 7 B737-500s, 2 more B737-200s for Chilean subsidiary Aerolineas del Sur, and an MD-83. The first two B737-500s should be delivered in November this year, after the Lufthansa offer fell through.

Llodrá remained vague about the acquistion of the A340-600s, saying there were still "terms in the contract that hadn't been met", so in short, don't expect them any time soon.

Vis-à-vis China, there are "no bilateral agreements" between the two countries as of yet, but AR should definitely be serving the route by years' end. In fact, they are still studying the option of serving Peking and Shanghai through Sydney as oppsed to Madrid, although Llodrá acknowledged the profitability of the route from Madrid given that no Spanish carrier currently serves the route.

And Llodrá was even MORE vague about the Mediterranean/Middle Eastern destinations, saying nothing clearer than "last quarter of 2004", but he may just have well have mumbled his response under his thick moustache!

However, he confirmed that the MD-80s will remain in the fleet, and remained diplomatically silent about Airbus, although he did say that AR will not be "shopping for brand-new A320s" or the like, clarifying from the beginning that all the aircraft will be "second-hand" due to the "unfavourable" circumstances.

Boeing's Veep for Latin American and Caribbean Sales, John Wojick, said he was extremely impressed by AR's turnaround since the Marsans Group takeover on October 18, 2001. Of course, the Spanish government was left to foot the bill of debts...

Let's hope this time they are serious!

XV




How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCaymanair From Cayman Islands, joined Apr 2004, 856 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3603 times:

I think the Aircraft choices are a bit odd. I thought they would have replaced the 32 737-200's with a mix of 737-700's and 737-300's, with the 737-800 a possible addition. The 747-400's were forseeable. Their subsidiary would have gotten a couple of the youngest 737-200's transfered from their mainline fleet, although many would be sold/scrapped. The remainder I would fill with 737's and they would be replacing MD-80's.

But they obviously know best, and niether are they in a position to be purchasing new aircraft.

---Donovon


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
Reply 2, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3539 times:

Sounds like a sound re-equipment strategy. Used 735/M80/744 aircraft are relatively efficient, plentiful and low on capital cost.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 38
Reply 3, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3488 times:

The -300s, I agree, whereas the -500 is all they can get given the price of the 737-NG and that there are virtually none on the 2nd-hand market. In fact, there's more demand for them than for the 735 than the 736. The MD-80s are staying until they get old (give them 10-15 years).
There is much flexibility, however. If the subsidiaries don't work out, AR will be free to sell or return the aircraft, and there are no fixed numbers for the any of the aircraft mentioned besides a total of "49" (that's one heck of a lot given that there are 32 B732s and 6 B742s). Since no other aircraft types were specified beyond the 733, 735 and 744, something tells me they are planning on a substantial fleet of 744s. Wojick actually let slip that the new 744s will allow "many European and US destinations to be served directly". Make of that what you will...
Meanwhile, Aerolineas Executive Jet will convert 2 more retired B732s (looking at the state of them, I really couldn't say which!) into VIP configuration as they've done with LV-JTD.

XV




How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 4, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3411 times:

I think this is a good move for Aerolineas - 733/735s can be obtained at rather reasonable prices and are certainly a step ahead of their aging 732 fleet. The 744s were expected, and will be an economical way for the airline to renew its long-haul fleet and maintain capacity. Aerolineas was a great airline that has been troubled by bad business decisions, political interference and the roller-coaster economy of Argentina - hopefully, this sensible fleet renewal plan will allow them to get back on track.

User currently offlineCiro From Brazil, joined Aug 1999, 662 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3259 times:

Historically, AR has often being engaged in orthodox strategies that no one, but senior its management understands. But for once, I agree with the idea to buy second-hand 737s to better tackle domestic market. AR's virtual local monopoly enables it to set a strong foothold without necessarily having top-tech aircraft. It is a good time for the airline to milk the benefits by adding capacity and buying market share rather than trying to compete by offering superior product and equipment.


The fastest way to become a millionaire in the airline business is to start as a billionaire.
User currently offlineTBCITDG From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 921 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3079 times:

LVZXV: Is it a fact that they will be re configuring another 2 737's as Executive Jets? I though that the first one was not used all that much?!?!

User currently offlineArcano From Chile, joined Mar 2004, 2402 posts, RR: 24
Reply 7, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3074 times:

XV: Interesting news. Are they really sending the old 732 to Aerolineas del Sur??? mmmmm... I don't see them succeed here, they won't be able to compete LAN with 732. I remember your words saying that if LAN used the 732 in Argentina would be outrageous!
What will happen with the 742? are they bringing them as well?
And what happens with the Airbus plan?

Arcano)(



in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773 and 380
User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 38
Reply 8, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3029 times:

TBCITDG:

Llodrá did confirm what I said about Aerolineas Executive Jet this morning, but I still recommend you type in a search on A.net for "LV-JMW" or "LV-LIV" (you will see the other two retired 732s, -JMX and -JMY, parked behind). It will cost a fortune to restore those planes, in my view.
The first one, LV-JTD, is used on average 7 times a month, which AR sees as successful. I guess they know better than I do...

Arcano:

Well, hypocrisy is pretty common in Argentina, and in a matter of national interests, I think it' right that at least the first few 735s stay with AR; as more arrive, they can cross the Andes. Plus, I heard that some of the younger (AU) 732s may go to Aerolineas del Sur, which are of 1986-7 build. Wait and see is my advice...
As for Airbus, no news on them, but I guess that was due to the presence of an important Boeing rep. so I guess Llodrá diplomatically brushed Airbus orders under the carpet. Someone asked him, but I think it was just the wrong day...

XV




How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlineTBCITDG From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 921 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2989 times:

Arcano: Maybe their intentions is not to compete with LAN but if not with the other carrier you guys have ?(is it still around?)
And you are right LVZXV: It will cost a fortune to re fit those 732's. But if they see that they are making $$ with those jets then good luck to them. There are thousands upon thousands of Argentines with huge bank accounts overseas that I am sure would love to use those jets.


User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 38
Reply 10, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2897 times:

I say convert two of the B732s earmarked for retirement shortly (LV-JND/JTO/LEB), since at least they are still in flying condition. The ones parked at EZE are missing engines, doors, fairings, bits of flap... I never see the point of parking an aircraft in the open, cannibalising it, and then returning it to service. It's the same story with the ex-LAPA 732s at AEP (grounded for over a year) which Southern Winds will reactivate after removing the engines, flaps, ailerons, APUs, nose-cones etc... como siempre, ¡TODO MAL!
BTW, does TBCITDG stand for something???

XV




How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlineTBCITDG From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 921 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2819 times:

It does have some meanning: Sorry about my Spanish
Te Bese Y te Deje +TBCITDG


User currently offlineFlying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4150 posts, RR: 37
Reply 12, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2784 times:

Is there any indication about AR or any other carrier from Argentina being interested in RJs? Actually the vast size of the country would be a surpreme field for RJ operations, as there are a few centers apart from BUE, at least IMO.

Interesting though, that apart from a few F28s and the Southern Winds CRJs no RJs were/are operated here. Could this change ?

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders



Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
User currently offlineArcano From Chile, joined Mar 2004, 2402 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2749 times:

TBC: Marsans intentions are indeed to compete with LA, and become the leading airline of the southern cone. Remember they had plans for Uruguay, Paraguay and Bolivia also.
Since they decided to start in Chile (probably due to Chilean open policies), the first step must be important. The 2nd Chilean carrier, Sky Airlines, is still flying, and my opinion is they will have to say good bye, as Avant (OT) did it after the arrival of Aero Continente Chile, when Avant, very bravely, decided to close before the situation became in bankruptcy. This way, they were able to pay every salary and debt.
But, to erase Sky of the market is not a real challenge for AR. If they are really trying show LA glory days are gone, they can't start with 732s.

XV: Oye! I just laugh of your very words. I completely understand they won't bring the 735. Now you will have to be humble (sha sé que para vos es difícil), swallow your words and start flying in the splendid looking 732 that Lan will give you, kicking AR ass  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
No, seriously, now there won't be 346? buuuuuu... I still remember not many years ago when AR flew to SCL once a day with 342s. And still waiting for Aerolineas del Sur 742s! I don't care if they bring 732, just PLEASE leave the MD80 super narrow super ugly at the Atlantic side of the Andes! I always hated the 3-2 rows aircrafts.

)(



in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773 and 380
User currently offlineUsatoeze From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 358 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2653 times:

I think this is fantastic news. I cant wait to see some 735s and 733s come in low at AEP instead of all the 732s. Its nothing against the 732, just a wish for a change of scenery.

I think its a brilliant move not to tie up excess capital in new aircraft, and instead to concentrate on high-quality used aircraft.



War is a very poor political tool
User currently offlineTBCITDG From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 921 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2622 times:

Arcano: What are the fares like offered by Sky Airlines? Is there much difference between them and that of the ones LAN asks for??

PS: If AR buy into Pluna, will that automatically become Aerolineas Uruguay, or will the Uruguayan goverment oppose this?


User currently offlineWGW2707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1197 posts, RR: 35
Reply 16, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2563 times:

PS: If AR buy into Pluna, will that automatically become Aerolineas Uruguay, or will the Uruguayan goverment oppose this?

I was under the impression that Varig owned the majority of Pluna's stock. At least they did a few years ago. Since Varig didn't mess with the name why would AR?

while the B747-200s will be replaced by B747-400s, one of which is already in service with another due to arrive in the 1st week of June and two more in September and January 2005 respectively

I guess that will put B747Skipper out of a job, eh?

-WGW2707


User currently offlineArcano From Chile, joined Mar 2004, 2402 posts, RR: 24
Reply 17, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2529 times:

Hola TBC, as you can see insomnia still attacks me!
Sky offers the almost same fares than LAN (perhaps up to 10% less). At their time, Avant, National and Saba did it the same, slightly under LAN fares. They don't compete based on price; Sky also offers a pretty decent service, although their network is much smaller.
They said they want to be prepared for the arrival of AR, and they want to start to fly to international destinations. The news is apparently they won't do from SCL, but from Iquique (northern city) and to LIM.
A photo:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Alejandro Ruiz Yañez


As for PU, I don't see Uruguayan Government complaining, as PU already belongs to RG. But I think I read somewhere the negotiations were frozen.

)(



in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773 and 380
User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5189 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2508 times:

I thought they were going to get another A342?

Also the 744 would be very weight restricted to do EZE-SYD non-stop maybe they would extend their AKL/SYD service to PEK/PVG? 2 stops though may not be what they want. Is the 744 still sposed to come onto the AKL/SYD anyway?

There aren't that many CF6 powered 744's for sale other than those from AC are there? Are they going to use PW's aswell since there are quite a few of them for sale.

Good to see AR getting into good shape aswell!


User currently offlineAeroArgentina From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 192 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2337 times:

I would think that PW's on 744s are a better idea for AR since that is what powers their 742's and there are so many more on the market.

Other than that AR needs to get more long haul planes fast as there US frequencies are horrible (I know it also has to do with Cat II) while AA flies 28 times a week to Argentina with outragoues fares (1400 dollars DFW-EZE nonstop while I can fly to Europe for 400). Lets get some competition from AR. IMO Argentine govt should not allow US carriers to increment their frequencies while AR cannot. I'm all for many carriers flying to Argentina but it's all about fair competition which is not happenening at the moment and is hurting consumers.


User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 38
Reply 20, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2241 times:

Flying-Tiger:

RJs are not as economical as they seem. In all of Latin America, only Colombia operates them (good mountain performance). I don't see them being cost-effective in Argentina.

Arcano:

You may not like the MD-80, but the Mad Dog sold close to 1,200 and is a highly versatile aircraft (in AR's case, they fly routes as short as MDQ in summer and as far as VVI, SSA and CCS all year round. It's perfect, believe me, and the 2-3 configuration gives passengers more choice (one "middle seat" per row).
There aren't enough A342s to fly to SCL. 1999 was different; they showed up at CDG and LAX too.

Usatoeze:

The 732 is a victim of its own success. It has, like most of its '60s rivals, an incredibly long life and is very dependable. Some of AR's are approaching 100,000 hours; twice the Boeing design specs.

WGW2707:

Actually, fly on Pluna and the crew say "Welcome aboard/thank you for flying Pluna-VARIG", so RG's influence is stronger than you think. I don't know the latest on talks with AR, but indeed, AR has a memorandum of understanding to acquire a 49% stake in PU.

XV




How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlinePdpsol From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1088 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2143 times:

LVZXV,

INFOBAE quoted an AR official, José María Llodrá, as saying AR has abandoned its plans to acquire RG's equity interest in PU. Llodrá said this had absolutely nothing to do with any Uruguayan opposition to the transaction. Rather, he gave the reason as RG's insistance AR sign some sort of 'protection agreement' limiting AR's flexibility in the Brazilian market. AR, rightfully so, declined the 'offer' and ceased negotiations with RG. So, for the time being, it appears PU will continue operating under RG.

PDPsol


User currently offlineArcano From Chile, joined Mar 2004, 2402 posts, RR: 24
Reply 22, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2028 times:

Hola Pdpsol:

INFOBAE also informed last week LAN's intentions to adquire Southern Winds, which was later denied.
Do you know the status of the Paraguay and Bolivia airline project?



in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773 and 380
User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 38
Reply 23, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 1900 times:

Pdpsol:

¿Que tal? I read the same in INFOBAE yesterday. It sounds highly plausible that the Uruguayan government didn't obstruct in any way (they seldom do!) and that RG didn't present a favourable offer to AR. That said, don't take anything they say literally. Did you see Clarín's coverage of the AR/Boeing deal? So much bulls**t!!!

Arcano:

No I don't, but I think Chile will be by far the hardest of the subsidiaries to launch so I guess Marsans wanted to start with them, and then move on to Uruguay, Bolivia and Paraguay, possibly in that order...

XV




How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlineAeroArgentina From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 192 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1776 times:

LVZXV
" Did you see Clarín's coverage of the AR/Boeing deal? So much bulls**t!!!"

Why do you say that?? Just curious. Thanks.


25 LVZXV : AeroArgebtina: Not for political reasons, I can assure you. Just that I saw Clarín's presence at the conference and yet what was published was along
26 AeroArgentina : LVZXV You are totally right. We know a fair amount about aviation and so it's easy to spot errors in the media. What scares me though is all the other
27 Post contains images Arcano : Oye XV: Then this mean a total change of plans: there won't be any 346 and the 744 are gonna stay? TBCITDG: I just realized the meaning of your nick..
28 Behramjee : It would have been wiser to buy a bunch of B 737-700 with winglets to replace the entire ageing B 732 fleet. The B 744 choice to replace the B 742 is
29 LVZXV : Behramjee: AR is in a phase of pursuing quantity rather than quality. I think they made the right choice in squeezing as much as they could out of the
30 TBCITDG : Arcano: Why the embarrassment??? Todo bien!!
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