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Flight 191  
User currently offlineBlackbird1331 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1892 posts, RR: 0
Posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4188 times:

The story of flight 191 will be on the History Channel at 7:00PM Eastern tonight. That is the DC-10 that lost it's left wing on take-off.


Cameras shoot pictures. Guns shoot people. They have the guns.
31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCmckeithen From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 617 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4147 times:

Its on at 7pm in CST. So it has to be 8pm EST.

User currently offlineBlackbird1331 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1892 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4046 times:

Cmckeithen, you are right. 7:00PM show offers other crashes, among them, flight 800. Thank you for the correction.


Cameras shoot pictures. Guns shoot people. They have the guns.
User currently offlineCmckeithen From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 617 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4002 times:

Not a problem. Just helping out.

User currently offlineBlackbird1331 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1892 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3907 times:

Just want to put this back on top for those who might not see this otherwise.


Cameras shoot pictures. Guns shoot people. They have the guns.
User currently offlineKomododx From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3853 times:

Just to push it up again it's 20:00 hrs EDT and it's on RIGHT NOW!

KdX in TLH


User currently offlineWestIndian425 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1024 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3806 times:

Well, since you beat me to it, I'll just make one correction:

The aircraft lost an engine, not it's wing.

Neil



God did not create aircraft pilots to be on the ground
User currently offlineWomack17 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 483 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3754 times:
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I am watching and had no idea it would affect me so profoundly. While watching the initial re-enactment I had tears streaming down my face. I knew about this accident but when they make the story personal you just can't help but be affected - God bless all the victims and families of this awful accident.


Oh how I miss Midway Airlines. A class act right to then end.
User currently offlineWomack17 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 483 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3667 times:
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This is a very interesting special. I would like to hear from some aircraft maintenance personnel about how accurate this special really is.


Oh how I miss Midway Airlines. A class act right to then end.
User currently offlineBlackbird1331 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1892 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3574 times:

Westindian425: Thanks, but am really tired. Proof read my own post and did not see my own mistake. Grounded!

Womack17: This is how it happened. Everybody in the industry takes it seriously, that is why so many people get where they are supposed to.



Cameras shoot pictures. Guns shoot people. They have the guns.
User currently offlineJeffrey1970 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 1336 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3538 times:

I pray for the families. I have often wondered when crashes like this happen if families sometimes feel left out of the equation when investigations, legal cases, and media reports are all going on about the crash.


God bless through Jesus, Jeff
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3491 times:

I personally didn't find the show that good. In the whole 1 1/2 hours they spent maybe 15 minutes talking about actual causes and events. The rest was footage of more modern accidents and rehashing unimportant information.


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently onlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4763 posts, RR: 26
Reply 12, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3439 times:
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I'm watching the program on Modern Marvels and I'm not sure what to think about some of the things they are saying. They are really putting a TON of emphasis on crashes and pilot error. They talked about an Eastern L-1011 crash where the pilots were not aware the plane was descending from 2000 feet all the way to the ground, even after ATC asked them about it?! I've never heard about that accident before, so I have never heard any reports on it, but sometimes I wonder about these airline/crash documentaries. Anyone else catch this program? Its the one before the special on flight 191.


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineGeedo From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 366 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3328 times:

"I personally didn't find the show that good. In the whole 1 1/2 hours they spent maybe 15 minutes talking about actual causes and events. The rest was footage of more modern accidents and rehashing unimportant information."

I was moved by the show, but disappointed in how they turned fifty minutes of production into ninety minutes of programming. And in a show where shoddy maintenance practices were a big topic, how ironic that duct tape was a big sponsor?






I've got Titanic hopes and they aren't sinking
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3226 times:

They talked about an Eastern L-1011 crash where the pilots were not aware the plane was descending from 2000 feet all the way to the ground, even after ATC asked them about it?! I've never heard about that accident before,..

Absolutely true! And it went for a swim into the Everglades! The pilots were completely distracted by a faulty light indicator -- they even did a go around which they were too high and this time they were too low.

The History Channel documentary was great.. I and many people brought into the 'faulty bolt' story.. this is the 1st I've heard of an interior pylon flange being constantly jammed (thus fracturing)because of AA's (and others as a cost/time saving or cutting measure) one-step engine removal technique -- when Douglas strongly urged it be a two-step processs! Just asking anyone about this.. the 1st thing out of their mouths will be 'it was a faulty bolt' or 'bolt problem'.

Great presentation except all the Pan Am 707 shots (glad to see them anyway) which had nothing to do with anything. It was great to see footage of the National and Trans America DC-10s!

BN747

[Edited 2004-05-28 09:48:07]


"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineCanoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2838 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3113 times:

Like an idiot I taped one hour of the show, thinking "it's a one hour show" at the end of the hour they say, "While most of the investigation was centered on the maintance proceedures of AA at Tulsa, there was another reason the plane crashed." That's about when my tape ended.

Can someone tell me why it rolled after takeoff and the pilots apparently regained control?



The beatings will continue until morale improves
User currently offlineBlackbird1331 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1892 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 3018 times:

Time to go to work. I will look at this later in case noone has replied.


Cameras shoot pictures. Guns shoot people. They have the guns.
User currently offlineHz747300 From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2004, 1654 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2986 times:
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They said it was because the engine cut away the hydraulic systems (primary and backup) when it broke away on take off. That pushed leading edge slat back in and when the crew reduced speed after realizing that there was a problem the left wing did produce as much lift as the right wing causing the aircraft to bank to the left then crash after reaching an altitude of only 300ft and not even travelling a mile.


Keep on truckin'...
User currently offlineTjwgrr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2419 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2879 times:

Loss of hydraulic pressure due to separation of pylon which tore through hydraulic lines caused the leading edge slats to retract on the left wing. PIC was FO, and FO had no stick shaker on his side. FO didn't realize until too late that the left wing was stalling which caused an uncontrollable severe roll to the left.

I thought the AA 191 special on the History Channel was quite informative and objective.



Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
User currently offlineMlsrar From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 1417 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2813 times:

I thought the AA 191 special on the History Channel was quite informative and objective.

Also, well-presented with the CG animations that showed the exact workings of the pylon assembly...a nice insight into the attachment/detechment process, and how the damage was done.

All without incorrect file-footage! (mostly)




I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
User currently offlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3735 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2686 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

When you mention flight 191 on a topic, please be specific about which disaster you are talking about. I figured in this case it's about the DC-10 that crashed in Chicago because that happened just 25 years ago, but 191 is also the flight number of another major disaster: a Delta L-1011 that crashed in Dallas in 1985.
Thanks anyway for the info.

Ben Soriano
Brussels Belgium



Ben Soriano
User currently offlineBmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2241 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2596 times:

Shouldn't the flight number 191 be retired after two major crashes with large fatality numbers? I sure wouldn't fly on a flight numbered 191.


The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
User currently offlineSprxflyswa From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 597 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2545 times:

Then don't fly Continental from MIA-IAH-AUS. That is where theirs goes.

Correct me if I am wrong, but at the very end, they showed a trijet heading away from camera in the late evening, and I am almost sure it was an L1011.

Also, when they showed shots from a tower and talking about either ATC or weather at the time, was it not DCA's tower with Potomac and US Capitol seen in background?


User currently offlineNavairjax From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2510 times:

Sprxfly,
I didn't notice which tower it was but you are correct that they did show an L1011.


User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 24, posted (10 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2430 times:

That scene was certainly not ORD.

And also a flight nbr is retired only with 'the airline involved' not across the board (all other carriers).


BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
25 Scseay : For those that might have thought that this documentary was incorrect, you should read the official NTSB report, which can be found on the net. I read
26 Brick : I wonder why United and Continental didn't get their balls busted for the same maintenance proceedure American was doing... Mark
27 747buff : UA and CO probably didn't get their balls busted because unlike AA, their use of the procedure didn't cause a major disaster.
28 Brick : That's my point. UA and CO were doing the same thing, but because AA got bit in the ass first they suffered the half million fine. Could have just as
29 Post contains links Type-rated : I was just leaving ORD after dropping my parents off for a trip to LAX (on CO)when this accident happened. I was heading south on Mannheim right at a
30 B752fanatic : What about the Report that an investigator for AA did for an important department in AA? AA decided to trash it, and still nobody knows the content of
31 Frugalqxnwa : First of all, the tower shot was of DCA. Secondly, one ofthe experts on there alluded to the fact that the MD-80 series was a failure. When I checked
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