JetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2791 posts, RR: 15 Posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5885 times:
While JetBlue may not be moving too aggressively against Ted, it seems that they are really trying to start to hunt Song down. They've been offering a $59 one-way sale fare between BOS and MCO, TPA, FLL for quite a while now, and come November, they'll be adding a 5th to MCO and 3rd to FLL. Song matched the sale fare (golly gee, really?), but I'm trying to think: Is Song's CASM low enough that they can make a profit with such low yields? Also, out of JFK, JetBlue is offering $69 to FLL, MCO, TPA, and PBI. I wonder why they didn't include RSW.
On a lighter note, JetBlue is offering IAD-FLL at $49 one-way (that's as much as JFK-SYR). This is a brand new route for Ted (it's actually brand new in the United system), and they did end up matching it. I highly doubt that Ted is making money off such low yields either.
Does anyone know why JetBlue all of a sudden decided to drop fares and go on an all-out war against Song? JetBlue, IMO, is not the type of airline that attacks other airlines intentionally, but instead goes its own way and does its own thing.
Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
Jetbluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2791 posts, RR: 15 Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5747 times:
Um - they did start LGB/ATL - which was perceived as an attack by both Delta and Airtran to ATL/LAX.
But it shouldn't have been taken that way. ATL-LA was long overdue for low-fare service.
And JetBlue did start the transcon wars, especially JFK/OAK. Remember when AA matched fares on that route - and then pulled out?
That was more or less AA's fault. They serve SFO with lots of flights anyway, why would they need OAK? To intentionally compete with JetBlue, of course. I think JetBlue's sales to OAK was to stimulate traffic or make a buzz.
Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
DCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4402 posts, RR: 37 Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5624 times:
Actually, AirTran only announced service on the ATL- LA Basin market after JetBlue did. AirTran had been looking at the market, and JetBlue's announcement only speeded up their process. But FL wasn't serving the market when B6 announced.
Isn't the Florida market weaker during the summer? Maybe JetBlue is stimulating demand to fill capacity. Yes, Song certainly isn't going to make money on those fares. Delta as we know doesn't publish separate figures for Song, but the New York Times has said Song's CASM is probably over eight cents.
It hasn't been JetBlue's style to "go after" other carriers; they just look where travel is terribly overpriced--like transcons--and offer a good product at a far better price. That raises the question, shouldn't they just move a/c to increase transcon frequencies during the summer, when demand in that segment is strongest? Maybe someone else has more info.
Of course a specific move against Song is possible, but it's unlikely that JetBlue's exceptionally low summer fares are more than a step to keep planes on the Florida routes filled during the summer. And JetBlue is probably at least breaking even doing so.
Jetbluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2791 posts, RR: 15 Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5556 times:
"But it shouldn't have been taken that way. ATL/LA was long overdue for low-fare service."
Um - sorry, again, but I think AirTran would argue that they were providing that.
"That was more or less AA's fault."
Ah - not quite. Just as JetBlue doesn't fly into LAX but into the LA area, it doesn't fly into SFO, but into the Bay Area.
The JFK/Bay Area flights were a huge ATM for AA - for another airline to fly JFK/Bay Area was a direct attack on AA's piggy bank.
There's a difference between going into an overpriced market and attacking an airline. Both ATL and OAK were because of overpriced markets. LGB-ATL was made to lower fares. Yes, it may have also been to cut a bit into Delta's pockets, but I'm sure that was not the prime reason. Also, JetBlue wouldn't have entered the market if AirTran was already flying it.
As far as the Bay Area, you can't really call it an attack. NYC-Bay Area is a VERY popular route, and JetBlue saw money there - afterall, it's one of the biggest cities in the U.S. As New York City's low-fare airline, JetBlue decided to bring those low fares to the Bay Area. You can't really call that an attack on AA, especially today where transcon flying is MUCH cheaper than four years ago.
But hey, Mariner, I see what you're saying and you do bring up valid points.
Isn't the Florida market weaker during the summer?
It's weaker, but not weak of course. July and August are absolutely huge for Florida (especially FLL as people have to connect to cruise lines). But their sale fares really don't extend much into those months - it's mostly June.
Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
Cx123 From Australia, joined May 2004, 695 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5551 times:
I must say B6, is one of the best airline I have travelled and I think compared to other LCC they are the best. I mean just because you are LOW COST it doesn't mean you remove good service and snacks!!!
It is 10 times better than AA and I think if they expand the Nth American network, I will definitely choose them rather then the horrible AA.
F4N From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5399 times:
It makes sense for JB to go on the offensive against Song and Ted whether they are part of well-established carriers or not. If JB can render either one or both unprofitable, UA and DL will jettison them with alacrity; they will go the route of Metrojet, United Shuttle, CO lite, Delta express ect...
JBLUA320 From United States of America, joined May 2002, 3163 posts, RR: 20 Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5276 times:
jetBlue is trying to pull the rug out from underneath song while song is still in a weak position. It is not jetBlue's style to "attack" an airline, but its more for the sake of competition- welcome to the USA where capitalism prospers!
song is in a very weak position right now, and jetBlue knows it. The logic, I believe, is to attack the weakest while they are hurting, and if they can ruffle the feathers of someone else while they are at it (Ted), then all the better. Neither jetBlue, song or Ted have particularly deep pockets (even back to the parent airlines, Delta and United), with jetBlue being in the best position of the three.
Ted doesnt yet have a loyal following from Dulles yet, and one can only expect jetBlue to try and protect the loyalty base they have worked hard to maintain. And in no way do I suggest anything against Ted, but I think jetBlue will maintain its loyalty base without much effort.
As for song... Its really hard to look at song and not get confused. For lack of a better way to put it, I dont get that airline!! But it is no lie that they are struggling, and Deltas pockets only run so deep. The cutbacks in frequencies have started (i.e. EWR) so jetBlue KNOWS song is in trouble. Its like the lion waiting for the perfect time to pounce- well, this is the time, and jetBlue is too smart to not take advantage of it.
I do believe this is just the beginning of an intense LCC war out of Washington, DC- but I also believe it will not be long before the weakest of the three drops. I dont wish that upon any employees, but I do think that is how it will play out.
JBLUA320 From United States of America, joined May 2002, 3163 posts, RR: 20 Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5249 times:
I dont know if I would go as far as to say PBI is seasonal. PBI sees a lot of excess flow from people who couldnt get a cheap FLL flight-- RSW is definately seasonal, but PBI stays about as consistant as FLL does.
ScottysAir From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5151 times:
Correct! This is alot of those flights day will given them. It should competition of Song. It is good to move for new service out of FLL-OAK anytime soon and how much longer will begun new service to OAK? They need to make beefing up more people are flying into the this summer.
Scottb From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6373 posts, RR: 34 Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5080 times:
Just from my own observations, BOS-Florida does indeed tend to be very seasonal. The summer is quite slow and the traffic drops off significantly. AA offers seasonal non-stops to several Florida cities (aside from MIA) in the winter and spring from BOS, and most of those ended recently. I've always gotten excellent deals to travel to Florida from Boston pretty much from May through October. You can fill the planes, but you have to drop the fares quite significantly to do so.
My feeling about Song reducing capacity at EWR is that it has far, far less to do with jetBlue and more to do with Continental. DL and CO are partners now, and CO has very competitive seat mile costs with the 757-300's to Florida. EWR and JFK are far enough apart (time-wise) to be almost completely different markets under most conditions. And some of that EWR capacity was redeployed into an additional BOS-PBI flight, so clearly Song sees that as being a good route. I mean, one could easily view a long-running sale between BOS and Florida on jetBlue as being a sign of weakness in the market as well; after all, why would you be dumping all that capacity at low when you have fewer seats to offer?
UAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2226 posts, RR: 12 Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5006 times:
I must first say that I love JetBlue and think it is an awesome airline, BUT they are in no position to "kill" Ted or Song. Ted and Song are part of major airlines that could take down JetBlue on any route they fly. What I think B6 is doing is just making some money! They are making money on these routes and I don't believe that they are taking away from any other carrier, all they have done is make fares cheaper which is what would have happened anyways with Ted or Song. Like has already been mentioned above, B6 is not very good at trying to wage a war with other airlines (ATL) they are still pretty small and don't have the money to ride it out like the majors. If one of their aircraft is on a route that is not making money because there is a fare war they have to stop and find a different route and not tie that a/c up. With a major, as long as they are breaking close to even its fine because its not taking up there last aircraft that they could be trying on route that has the possibility of being more profitable. What I am trying to say here is that it is hard for a smaller airline to go to war with a larger airline because the larger airline can stick it out a lot longer..... (I made that way to confusing!)
Now while were on the subject, I think B6 is growing way to fast. They have far to many a/c on order and I hope they are careful. This has been the downfall of many airlines...
Kieso From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 34 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4859 times:
I believe that jetblue is trying to destroy any competition that comes it's way! I believe B9 wants ALL of JFK to them selves. Yes, they are bring lower prices, but at the expense of thousands of US jobs!
I believe WN is different then B9 because of the way they structure their flights to compete with other carriers, not take over. And I've flown both carriers with no regret. I do believe WN has far better customer skills then B9. You can't make that up with PTV's!
This is just my opinion. Last time I started a topic like this one I got an e-mail from airliners.net telling me not to do it again! I enjoyed reading this and believe there should be more. What's wrong with having an opinion or debate?