Ken4556 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 169 posts, RR: 0 Posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6784 times:
Dateline aired the story of United flight 232 that made a crash landing in Iowa in 1989.
I know I have seen the story before, but I am still in awe of what the flight crew did. Yes, 112 people lost their life, but 184 people lived because of the dedication and preserverence of the flight crew.
Those four people in the nose of that DC-10 that day will always be heroes to me.
InnocuousFox From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2805 posts, RR: 15 Reply 5, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6467 times:
Back in 1990, I briefly worked with a guy who was a cameraman around here in Omaha/Council Bluffs. As he tells the story, for some reason, he heard that the flight was in trouble. He threw a camera in the back of his truck and sped up I-29 to SUX (about 45 minutes if you are hauling ass) and got the footage of the flight "landing" from outside the fence. Not sure how true that is. *shrug*
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
Ltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 12692 posts, RR: 13 Reply 6, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6393 times:
Wasn't there posts here about the need for one of the children of one the pilots of that flight that needed a organ for transplant? I didn't see this program, but I believe there have been documentary programs (and even a TV movie?) of this crash. Perhaps a updated documentary should be made like the recent History Channel one on AA 191 crash.
Dodgecharger From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 210 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6115 times:
In response to the question how come the f/o and f/e are never mentioned,
The story of this flight has been done many many times on all different TV shows and I can never remember hearing either of their names mentioned ever. Maybe they don't care to relive it over and over again, maybe it's too much to deal with....who knows. But, you are right all of the flight crew deserve every ounce of credit.
It amazes me Al Haynes kept on flying after the crash and retired in 1991.
Acidradio From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 1860 posts, RR: 10 Reply 9, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6056 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
NBC likes to play a segment about UA232 every once in a while. See, NBC is owned by GE and can be used as a propaganda tool. Every time I have seen one of these pieces, NBC conveniently mentions how "United's improper maintenance practices" caused the engine to shatter. UA will counter that GE made a defective engine and that all their maintenance procedures were proper, after all, the engine was in service for, what, 18 years before this massive failure? The difference is that UA does not own its own large media outlet to promote its claim...
Pilotpip From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3119 posts, RR: 11 Reply 10, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6056 times:
I was pretty impressed with the way it was presented. Yeah, it left out some technical to keep the average person interested and could have had a little more about the survivors.
One of the things I find most impressive is how Cpt Haynes left out the four in the cockpit when he was asked for the number of souls aboard. He said that it was the thing that disturbed him most after the crash.
I've had this crash pounded into my head for four years of college because it's probably the greatest single example of CRM you will ever find and I'm still not tired of hearing it.
StevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5989 times:
No one caught it? In the 'animation' they showed of #2 disintegrating...
Well, it showed the front of the #2 intake as coming apart, which of course is VERY inaccurate. Those here on the forum who know anything about the DC-10/MD-11 family is that the #2 engine is located at the BACK of the intake. This animation failed to show that. It was the shrapnel that instantly severed the three independent hydraulic lines, which ran up the back of the tail fin. In addtion, the shrapnel rendered the horizontal stabilizers virtually worthless.
I just about came unglued when they blamed United for not finding that crack, but then quickly realized that GE is the parent of NBC/MSNBC. To this day, United Airlines has never bought another engine from GE, and never will, all a result of that fateful day.
StevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5965 times:
It amazes me Al Haynes kept on flying after the crash and retired in 1991.
Flew his last flight, a DC-10 of course, DEN-SEA. Lives here in the Seattle area now, not sure where...Tukwila maybe?
Yes...I've seen this special on Dateline NBC many times over the past few years. GE knows that UA is weak right now, and hoping that repeatedly showing that UA was at fault in this incident (they're not) will bring about more lawsuits against UA, finally destroying them, and portraying GE as the victor. Bastards. I hate the news media...
StevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 15, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5861 times:
Iowaman...give it another month or two...they'll probably show it before the end of the summer, if not on the 15-year anniv. Either that, or wait until UAL reports some bad news, and the boys at GE will look to rub some more salt in their wounds...
Ha763 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 3550 posts, RR: 6 Reply 21, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5618 times:
The point of telling this story isn't to blame UA, but the extra-ordinary human interest story that the aircraft, which was basically uncontrollable, was even able to attempt a landing and that so many survived a crash that really shouldn't be survivable. The story spent less than 5 minutes on the probable cause and summarized what the NTSB said was the probable cause. Plus they did say that the defect originated during the part's manufacturing.
Section 3.2 Probable Cause:
"The National Transportation Safety Board determines that the
probable cause of this accident was the inadequate consideration given to
human factors limitations in the inspection and quality control procedures
used by United Airlines' engine overhaul facility which resulted in the
failure to detect a fatigue crack originating from a previously undetected
metallurgical defect located in a critical area of the stage 1 fan disk that
was manufactured by General Electric Aircraft Engines."
Also, UA has always used P&W engines when they are available. Only when they weren't an option did they use another engine and the DC-10-10/-30 only is available with GE's. Look at their aircraft and jet engine choices.
Jc5280 From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 530 posts, RR: 5 Reply 22, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5551 times:
Interesting. I didn't know the background between GE and UA on that subject. However, it brings up an interesting question.
I have a good friend who works for GE and they have a corporate volume agreement with United for business travel. She does a lot of travelling for GE and always flys UA. I also know UA employees get discounts on GE appliances directly from the corporation.
AirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 25 Reply 23, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5488 times:
I wish they went more into the after effects of the crash...
I wanted to see how the aircraft broke up after it crashed to see what parts rested where. They didnt show that at all and I was disappointed.
I was amazed that Capt. Al continued to fly after this incident as well as the Flight Attendant, who retired in 1999. The point to the story was to show the heros of this flight, not to bash UA. You may disagree with me but c'mon...give Al and his crew some credit for trying to get this plane grounded as best the can...calmly and PROFESSIONALLY. He even cracked a joke or two during descent which made me think he knew what was going on and knew what to do with the help of the flight instructor on board.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
AirxLiban From Lebanon, joined Oct 2003, 4503 posts, RR: 54 Reply 24, posted (9 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5433 times:
I did see this programme. I do not know who is to blame, whether it should be United or GE or a combination or whatever, but the important thing is that steps have been taken to ensure that an accident of this nature will never happen again.
In the meantime, flight 232 was a miracle and an act of true heroism on the part of the crew. May the 112 who did not make it rest in peace.
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
25 JMChladek: It was a pretty good show, with some omissions. But, MSNBC has also been showing a similar report on it as part of their "Why Planes Crash" story and
26 NIKV69: USAFHummer, I was thinking the same thing, they should have been at least been mentioned by name and a quick background. It was a great documentary fo
27 StearmanNut: Those guys in the cockpit of 232 that day are the epitome of who all airlines try to hire as pilots. Smart, innvative, savvy, and experienced. Incredi
28 ConcordeBoy: Those four people in the nose of that DC-10 that day will always be heroes to me. Speaking of... there's a full-length feature movie on this event cal
29 Tony Lu: I watched it last night. The animation looked very accurate. Tony[Edited 2004-05-31 17:48:46]
30 Rj777: It was very well done! To this day, no one has been able to repeat the feat of Al Haynes and the rest of the UAL232 crew. Not even in the simulator.
31 StevenUhl777: Tony Lu: I agree, the animation was very accurate, but not completely. If you take a look at what I wrote in reply #11, I point out a pretty big probl
32 F9Fan: Jerry Schemmel, one of the survivors of UA 232, recently spoke at my church. He does play-by-play for the Denver Nuggets radio broadcasts and therefor
33 RHSNYC: As a flight attendant, I sometimes flew with Dennis Fitch on the 767 trans-con routes. I haven't seen him for several years now but he was a first off
34 Texdravid: Pilots like Al Haynes prove that Pilots are NOT overpaid, as well as every crewmember of flights. Pilots make it look easy...maybe they make it look e
35 NightFlier: This was a incredible and bad accident but thanks to the crew some made it out. I recall after the incident pilots in simulators tried doing the same
36 StevenUhl777: NightFlier: IIRC, UA and crews at other airlines who flew the DC-10 were never able to get as close to the runway as Capt. Haynes and his crew. Severa
37 InnocuousFox: One of the good things was they had a DC-10 trainer on board who had 3000+ hours in the DC-10. He went forward and joined them and was instrumental in
38 Jetranger2000: Interesting to note, several NASA engineers heard that the crew controlled the aircraft using the engines, and actually developed the Propulsion Contr
39 Jalto27R: I missed the program, but it sounded interesting. In response to one of the first posts in this thread, I do think I remember seeing a video of the DC
40 Itsjustme: I'm curious why, in all of the previous posts, no mention was made or credit given to the professionalism of the ATC who talked Capt. Haynes down. I t
41 NIKV69: Itsjustme, Due respect, but the ATC didn't really do much. I agree he was great at what he did in this accident but the four men in that cockpit are t
42 Ken4556: The piece on Dateline did interview the ATC controller. It did show he did a very professional job and stayed calm. I do disagree with his comment tha
43 NIKV69: Ken4556, You are right! I also was a little surprised when the ATC said he looked as his fellow ATCs and spoke of how they would not make it and die.
44 SonicKidatBWI: StevenUhl777 ". . . What finally caused it was a sudden surge in the #1 engine, forcing the left wing up and the right wingtip into the ground . . ."
45 Ord: I saw the show on The History Channel last week on AA 191. In the program they say one of the contributing factors in the crash was that on the DC-10
46 InnocuousFox: This article seems to be about as good as it gets.
47 Elwood64151: UA will counter that GE made a defective engine and that all their maintenance procedures were proper, after all, the engine was in service for, what,
48 Standby87: I'm with Texdravid This is not your regular arrival http://www.airdisaster.com/eyewitness/ual232fig4.jpg Incredible hey? If that doesn't display, ther