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7E7 Same Old Boring Tail Fin  
User currently offlineLeon8828 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 43 posts, RR: 0
Posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7992 times:

I knew it, Boeing was going to resort to using the same old boring vertical fin on the 7E7. What happened to the real cool dolphin fin?

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/7e7/photo_1.html

61 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6570 posts, RR: 50
Reply 1, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7933 times:

That's an old rendering of the 7E7. No worries, as far as I know, shark fin tail is still a go.


Steve/MSY


User currently offlineFrontiers4ever From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 173 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7890 times:

As MSYtristar stated it is an old drawing it came out when the 7E7 was first annouced.

-Fronters4ever



Until you prove, your right, your wrong
User currently offlineJonnyJon11 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 32 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7881 times:

So do you think it will stay the 7E7 or will become the 787. Just a thought to add to this.

User currently offlineMD11LuxuryLinr From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1385 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7833 times:

~"That's an old rendering of the 7E7. No worries, as far as I know, shark fin tail is still a go. "~

Wow. Thanks for clearing that up.. I was a bit confused there for a second.. The 7E7 looks like a 763 with cooler wings??  Big grin



Caution wake turbulence, you are following a heavy jet.
User currently offlineBlackbird1331 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1893 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7742 times:

It has served so well for so long. Maybe there is nothing wrong with it.


Cameras shoot pictures. Guns shoot people. They have the guns.
User currently offlineBoeing4ever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7602 times:

EDIT: The post I was referring to has been deleted.

BTW, Leon, that's the first rendering of 7E7, BEFORE the shark-tail fin. You really should do your homework if you want to be taken seriously here. Boy, tonight's the night where all the teenage-armchair-aeronautical-engineers come out.  Insane

B4e-Forever New Frontiers

[Edited 2004-05-31 05:55:54]

User currently offline757KSLC From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 233 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7510 times:

Yea, the date on that picture in January 2003, 16+ months ago.


"That wasn't flying! That was falling with style!" Woody, Toy Story.
User currently offlineCancidas From Poland, joined Jul 2003, 4112 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7493 times:

...teenage-armchair-aeronautical-engineers...

as apposed to every other night where it's battle of the teenage-armchair-airline-ceos?



"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
User currently offlineBWIA 772 From Barbados, joined May 2002, 2200 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7423 times:

One would have thought that the other pics which are more recent than the one highlight would have been a big clue. Not to mention that when the ANA announced their order that the press release photo was the 7e7 with the shark fin in ANA livery.


Eagles Soar!
User currently offlineFSPilot747 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 3599 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7385 times:

That's how it should be. This whole "futuristic design" crap is ridiculous, but who knows it might actually be efficient.

If Boeing really wants that playstation videogame look, fine. But I just hope it's worth it.

This "shark fin" and weird cockpit windows look just seems like a joke. But I'm no engineer or anything, I could be totally off.


User currently offlineHighliner2 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 696 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7278 times:

Actually if you check out the latest photos of the windtunnel testing the 7E7 has the "old-boring" tailfin. As much as I think the whole sharkfin look might be appealing, Boeing has a very fine aerodynamic department and their going to do whatever if takes to make that thing sail through the air as smooth as possible, if that means the boring tail fin, well, oh well.


Go Cubs!
User currently offlineDl021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11447 posts, RR: 75
Reply 12, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7225 times:
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Number one...Leons profile says he is not a teenager, he appears to be a thirty-something lawyer who is a licensed helo pilot and a web site. Even if he was a teenager, at least he has a constructive hobby.

Number two A press release recently said that Boeing is not going to use the "shark fin tail" depicted in early renderings. As soon as I find the article again I will post it.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineAirxLiban From Lebanon, joined Oct 2003, 4512 posts, RR: 53
Reply 13, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7114 times:

the design of the 7E7 has not been finalized yet...things could still change. we won't know for sure until they release the final design.


PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
User currently offlineHighliner2 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 696 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 6958 times:

I thought I'd heard some press release/article concerning the tail being redone, please post that article when you can, I'm interested to read it.


Go Cubs!
User currently offlineCanoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2839 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6854 times:

Another off topic So do you think it will stay the 7E7 or will become the 787

I like the quote when they announced they would build the 7E7. Something along the lines that the E stood for Everett. I think it should stay, I hate the Dreamliner name, but 7E7 is unique.



The beatings will continue until morale improves
User currently onlineRuscoe From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1566 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6748 times:

This is a partial extract from an article in the Seattle Post-Intelligencer:
"Cogan said the nose of the 7E7 is pretty much fixed. But more design work is needed on the tail fin, he said.

The goal, he said, is to get as close as possible to the distinctive look that the aviation world now knows as the 7E7.

Boeing is now in the second of four rounds of wind-tunnel testing for the 7E7 program at this site and three other locations around the world: a low-speed wind tunnel at the University of Washington, a NASA facility in Mountain View, Calif., and the QinetiQ low-speed wind tunnel in Farnborough, England."

Ruscoe


User currently offlineLehpron From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 7028 posts, RR: 21
Reply 17, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6529 times:

Blackbird1331: >> "It has served so well for so long. Maybe there is nothing wrong with it." <<

In engineering, apart from creating a new airplane from scratch (as is somewhat apparent with 7E7), you look to the existing parts of the plane for tweeking efficiency out of them as long as the change (benefit) is worth the immediate costs. The idea of "if it aint broke don't fix it" does not apply here. Nobody changes anything for the hell of it, no ideas come out of people's butts, in other words. Big grin

I've noticed in recent years that there has been the need to trade off development costs and operational costs back and forth -- which explains the Space Shuttle pretty well and just about anything NASA spits out...  Insane If Boeing ends up going this route they'll screw themselves over, I think if the point of the project is lowering ops costs then they will have to invest heavily on development. That translates into higher break-even unit sales.

They have the brand down, will thay have the quality?

[Edited 2004-05-31 13:27:19]


The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
User currently offlineBlackbird1331 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1893 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 6426 times:

Was just thinking in terms of aerodynamics and physics reaching their pinnacle. If you could build the ultimate supersonic airliner but had to use this particular tail, would you do it? I think so. Most of us have been taught to think outside the box but I guess sometimes we have stay inside.


Cameras shoot pictures. Guns shoot people. They have the guns.
User currently offlineOerk From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 162 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 6193 times:

Damnit....

When I read the topic... "7E7 Same Old Boring Tail Fin" I breathed a huge sigh of relief... to be done with the atrocity otherwise known as the "shark fin tail".

Guess I am going to have to wait longer. Such a horrid design.
And yes, I'm not even talking about efficiencies etc... im just concerning myself with looks at the moment... so dont bother pointing this out.


User currently offlineOerk From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 162 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 6164 times:

http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2004/photorelease/q2/040526g.jpg

Picture dated May 26, 2004.... no shark fin!

Thank you Boeing.


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13596 posts, RR: 61
Reply 21, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5946 times:
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Picture dated May 26, 2004.... no shark fin!

Perhaps, but they're still tweaking the design. Besides, if you actually take that wind-tunnel model as gospel of what the final product will look like, there won't be a horizontal stabilizer either.  Insane

Everyone just breathe easy, k?  Big grin



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 977 posts, RR: 51
Reply 22, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5871 times:

Design freeze is probably 7-8 months away, then we will know for sure. I agree with EACOAS, just breathe easy...

User currently offlineLuisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5863 times:

This has notting to do with thinking outside the box, in the end, The most efficient design will go, and then only if the cost of making it doesnt exceed the savings that will come.
Its very basic economycs.
I am sure that boeing has made a very studied decission and has taken into consideration all factors before deciding against the shark tail design

Is it just me or does that tail resemble a lot to the 777 tail (could it be possible to use the same tail?) anyone that can answer that i would appreciate it.


User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 977 posts, RR: 51
Reply 24, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 5695 times:

could it be possible to use the same tail

Nooo....

The 7E7-3/8 are both about 2/3-rds the size of a 772 and about half the size of the 773. They are two very different airplanes in terms of size, flight profile, ect; making it virtually impossible (or rather, highly improbable) that they will share the same tail. Hope that answers your question  Smile


25 Luisca : Yes but i read that in the A318 the tail is actually Bigger than the tail in the A320, also, they probably are using the same tail design at least Wil
26 Miamix707 : the A318 does have a taller fin, not sure why the A319 didn't need one. I think the A319 would actually be a better looking aircraft with a longer fi
27 SpeedbirdHeavy : I knew it, Boeing was going to resort to using the same old boring vertical fin on the 7E7. What happened to the real cool dolphin fin? People in this
28 Gigneil : the A318 does have a taller fin, not sure why the A319 didn't need one. I think the A319 would actually be a better looking aircraft with a longer fi
29 M404 : The 318 need the extra height (control) for the same reason the B747sp did.
30 Post contains links Nantoine : Actually, SpeedbirdHeavy, Boeing HAS said that they were considering making the 7E7 "look cool" so it would be different and recognizable: "Subtle tou
31 Post contains images Solnabo : The 7E7 gonna look like a shrinked 777 Micke//SE
32 MD-90 : You really should do your homework if you want to be taken seriously here. LMAO! I'm sorry, that's just too funny. Like aircraft manufacturers actuall
33 Post contains images SupraZachAir : Picture dated May 26, 2004.... no shark fin! Thank you Boeing. This was debated a week ago and i think the conclusion was that they looked to be only
34 Vorticity : Never look at a single wind tunnel test model and assume any decisions have been made about the final design. It depends on what their methods in test
35 Flyboy36y : The 7E7 looks like a 763 with cooler wings?? No, that's the 764....
36 Post contains images Lehpron : Each and evey plane designed follows a criteria, a baseline (usually rooted in tradition or older planes), it's where the modern tailfin came from. Li
37 Blackbird1331 : Thinking outside the box means to defy conventional thinking and go with your instincts, intuition and even, gut feelings. In this example, if I feel
38 Vorticity : Thinking outside the box means to think in new or different ways than what was done before. When someone says, "we've always done it this way", you yo
39 RayChuang : I think Boeing may shelve the idea of a vertical tail fin that looks like a shark fin for this reason: avoiding the potential for the plane to "Dutch
40 Spike : Thinking outside of the box is one of thse crappy expresions that are used by people so obviously stuck inside a box that they've lost the plot.
41 Post contains images Vorticity : Thinking outside of the box is one of these crappy expressions that are used by people so obviously stuck inside a box that they've lost the plot. Yes
42 Post contains images SupraZachAir : Maybe if it ends up looking more traditional, they can just paint every one to LOOK like a shark fin....
43 Blackbird1331 : Thinking outside the box lead to research in aircraft without tails.
44 Lehpron : What exact is the general definition of an 'aircraft without tails'? There are three major parts there, eliminating one makes one new plane, all means
45 AeroOzzie : The shark-fin to me seems like a marketing thing. The prime reason that aircraft have had the current "look" about them is because it works - and work
46 Airmale : Aircraft in the image is more of a cross between the 777 and 764, its not the 7E7 design which came out much later.
47 DfwRevolution : You would need serious backing and way before that, you need to prove yourself to others that you can do it. It's an uphill battle for out-of-box thin
48 7E72004 : How long will it be before we see the actual "final" design of the 7E7??
49 Post contains images AvObserver : "The 7E7 gonna look like a shrinked 777" Not likely but if it did, so what? As with the A380, we're really concerned about performance, not looks. And
50 JBirdAV8r : I've never seen a plane that was never susceptible to Dutch roll at any time, or in any phase of flight. If RayChuang could find me an example, I'd be
51 BA757 : All you people who knock teens (I am not a teen) should remember one thing, these people one day could be top aeronautical engineers or brilliant airl
52 CalPilot17 : Hey I'm a teen and I bet I probly have a higher total time then 90% of the people on this forum. Just a question kinda on subject. What is the advanta
53 SupraZachAir : It appears that the "shark fin" vertical tail on the 7E7 artist's conceptions could result in the 7E7 being sensitive to Dutch roll even with the appl
54 Post contains images Boeing4ever : Number one...Leons profile says he is not a teenager, he appears to be a thirty-something lawyer who is a licensed helo pilot and a web site. Even if
55 Marcjet66 : that will be for sure a wonderful airplane..
56 Post contains images Vorticity : Boeing, and it's heratige companies like McDonnell Douglas are not known for giving into stylish designs meant to please the eye. Some engineers think
57 UALongHaul : If you can make a wheel more functional and stylish let me know. I mean it is OK the way it is, but it could look so much cooler......................
58 Canoecarrier : What if we said, "same old boring wing"? What do you expect them to do with it? I looked at Airbus rudders today, and they didn't look that much diffe
59 Andrewuber : "You really should do your homework if you want to be taken seriously here." Geez, I'm almost afraid to ask, but I will anyway. Will the 7E7 be a "hea
60 UALongHaul : Andrewwuber- ""You really should do your homework if you want to be taken seriously here." Geez, I'm almost afraid to ask, but I will anyway. Will the
61 Post contains images Lehpron : >> "A rudder is a rudder, a tail is a tail. Ok, it is boring, but should we change it to make it look "cool"?"
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