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The Next Big Order For UAL  
User currently offlineTriJetFan1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1128 posts, RR: 7
Posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6989 times:
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What do you think will be your the next order for UAL?


Earned PPL June 26, 2007
67 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBrons2 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3015 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6965 times:

Chapter 7 liquidation when the government backed loan does not materialize, and they are unable to exit bankruptcy.


Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
User currently offlineUA2162 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 496 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6952 times:

I'm a very optimistic person...

The launch order in the United States for the 7E7!

[Edited 2004-06-01 03:08:29]

User currently offlineAdipasqu From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 238 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6944 times:

OUCH!!! That hurts!

It would be really weird to fly into ORD and see something other than UA birds at T1!

I agree with UA2162, they'll eventually order the 7E7 if they stay afloat, but they might not be the US launch customer...AA will be IMO.

[Edited 2004-06-01 03:07:51]


707 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 741 742 752 753 762 763 764 D9S D10 319 320 321 M80 M82 M83 M87 M88 M90 SF3 ERJ CRJ
User currently offlineN777UA From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6884 times:

Most likely they will reactivate dormant A320 family orders and eventually replace the 737 fleet. The 7E7 is a possibility in the future....but remember United has a large 757/767 fleet that isn't too far up there in years. The 767-200 is on its way out though.

User currently offlineStevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6884 times:

Brons2: So you're certain then that there are no other options for UAL if the ATSB loan falls through? No investor groups waiting in the wings? You're absolutely certain that UAL has no contingency plans in place? The 2nd largest airline in the world is just going to collapse overnight, huh? Sounds to me like it's pure speculation and wishful thinking on your behalf. Do you work for NW by any chance?

I think UAL WILL survive, however sadly their next order will be for the A330. If I'm not mistaken, none of the engines available for the 7E7 are what United uses (P&W) however the A330 can use P&W.



[Edited 2004-06-01 03:18:06]

User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 6, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6867 times:

United, as a rule, will probably not order anything GE powered anytime soon.

N


User currently offlineFutureUApilot From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1365 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6864 times:

My dream would be for them to order the A380. My dream plane with my dream airline for me to fly as my dream job!!!  Big grin


The Pilot is the highest form of life on Earth!
User currently offlineBrons2 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3015 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6859 times:

Do you work for NW by any chance?

No, I work for the government.



Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
User currently offlineUA2162 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 496 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6853 times:

Brons2: So you're certain then that there are no other options for UAL if the ATSB loan falls through? No investor groups waiting in the wings? You're absolutely certain that UAL has no contingency plans in place? The 2nd largest airline in the world is just going to collapse overnight, huh? Sounds to me like it's pure speculation and wishful thinking on your behalf. Do you work for NW by any chance?

You tell him!  Smile
That's right!  Big grin

I think UAL WILL survive, however sadly their next order will be for the A330. If I'm not mistaken, none of the engines available for the 7E7 are what United uses (P&W) however the A330 can use P&W.

As much as I hate to hear this, you're probably right. Please excuse my ignorance but why will Boeing not option P&Ws on the 7E7?


User currently offlineStevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6820 times:

No, I work for the government.

Well...for the sake of all the UA employees and loyal customers on this forum, we can all hope you're not on the ATSB 3-person panel...



I'm sure there's a very techical reason why the P&W powerplant was deemed insufficient for the 7E7, but it was RR, GE, and Trent I believe that Boeing chose as engine suppliers.






User currently offlineN754pr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6793 times:

This airline should not even be flying, how can they make another HUGE order??

User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21675 posts, RR: 55
Reply 12, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6785 times:

I think UAL WILL survive, however sadly their next order will be for the A330. If I'm not mistaken, none of the engines available for the 7E7 are what United uses (P&W) however the A330 can use P&W.

Didn't stop them from using IAE engines on their 320/319s.

Even so, I'd love to see a 330 in UA colors. Even the new ones.



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineStevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6765 times:

This airline should not even be flying

Based on....????

I'll bet you're going to tell me and the rest of us because UAL is losing money, right? Because they have a lot of debt? Bad management? Because they're burning money? Sure...UAL is dealing with all that, but so are all the other US airlines, and the case could be made for several international airlines, too!

Hmmm...well, if that's your criteria, then all the major US airlines shouldn't be flying either, right? News flash! Had it not been for a fuel hedge, Southwest Airlines would have posted a Q1 loss! Does that mean that Southwest shouldn't be flying, either?

I just couldn't let a foolish comment like that slide by unanswered...


User currently offlineAlphascan From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 937 posts, RR: 13
Reply 14, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6741 times:

So you're certain then that there are no other options for UAL if the ATSB loan falls through? No investor groups waiting in the wings? You're absolutely certain that UAL has no contingency plans in place? The 2nd largest airline in the world is just going to collapse overnight, huh?

If there are other options, UA is ineligible for the loan guarantee. Kind of a two edged sword, huh?



"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
User currently offlineStevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6688 times:

If there are other options, UA is ineligible for the loan guarantee. Kind of a two edged sword, huh?

I didn't know that, but it does make sense, and you're right that it's a dual-edge sword, and UAL mgmt. better hope like hell that they don't fall on that sword. Personally, I wish UAL didn't put all their eggs in one basket with this loan, but so be it.

The point I was trying to make is that UAL/United Airlines isn't going to vanish overnight if they don't get the loan. Given the brand strength, an investor group can be quickly assembled to make a bid for UAL Corp. Lastly, while I don't know this for sure, I would think that senior management at UAL have some sort of plan that will be put in place if they are denied the loan. Let's hope that plan never sees the light of day...



User currently offlineUAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2392 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6624 times:

I think the next order will be for the 7E7.
Now for all of you people that think that UA will just shut down one day I have one question, ARE YOU CRAZY? There are so many things that can be done to save the airline that there is no way UA will go under. What UA is trying to do is not have to sell anything and keep the entire airline intact and the way it is now. Just by selling off routes and aircraft im sure they would have enough money to stay afloat. Can you imagine how much an airline would pay for the DEN hub?? I do think that UA will get the loan but again if they don't, the airline will do just fine.
(Do you people typing this things think that CO should be gone and that DL should close when they file or is it just some kind of grudge against UA??)



/// UNITED AIRLINES
User currently offlineBaw2198 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 637 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6510 times:

I think that United's next order will be for the 7e7, and not the A330. United has always used boeing for long haul aircraft (not counting the Dc-8's). I just don't see United changing to airbus for long haul aircraft since UA has such a great parts and tech support from boeing.

My prediction--> Look for UA to put an order in for about 20 7e7's within the next 2 yrs. Maybe less if they come out of Ch.11 quicker and much healthier than they are now.

"AA will be the first to order the 7e7 for the U.S. carriers"

I couldn't agree more.

Cheers

Baw2198



"And remember, Keep your stick on the ice"--->Red Green
User currently offlineStevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6458 times:

I HOPE United would buy the 7E7...that airplane will be assembled two miles from where I live, so I'm very biaed in favor of that airplane....

...but I also know the reality: UA prefers P&W engines, and the 7E7 doesn't offer an engine made by P&W. Will United go with RR or Trent? Highly unlikely. GE? Even MORE unlikely! In recent years, Airbus has sold airplanes to United for dirt-cheap prices, and as as one of the largest creditors, there will be immense pressure on mgmt. to order more Airbus aircraft once UAL is in a position to do so. Sadly, very sadly....I think we'll see a United A330, A340, or even an A380 in UA colors before we see a United 7E7. I avoid flying on Airbus equipment, even if it is on UA, and will either pay more or go out of my way to fly on only Boeing aircraft.



User currently offlineAlexinwa From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6436 times:

"If it's not Boeing.....I'm not going!!!"


You mad Bro???
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25401 posts, RR: 85
Reply 20, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6394 times:
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Steven:

"Let's hope that plan never sees the light of day..."

In some ways, you might wish that it would.

I know Jack Brace said - a while ago - that the capital markets are closed to UAL, but I doubt that is entirely true. They now claim that UAL has come a long way financially.

So, unless they're telling fibs or unless UAL's debt is so huge and so encumbered (which it may be, I don't know), money is almost always available - for such a large corporation - but at a price.

The question is the price.

And the ATSB is a very expensive way of getting access to money. They take warrants in the company's stock, and those warrants don't go away when the loan is repaid - the warrants are the price of the guarantee.

(Check out the ATSB deal with HP, which set the pattern).

So - the airline borrows from the lender and pays interest on that and then the (new) sharholders have to cope with the dilution of their shares when the warrants are exercised- a double whammy.

It would be so much better if UAL could find a way to get what they need without the ATSB - both commerically and politically.

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineCessna172RG From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 749 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6385 times:

As much as I dispise United for my own personal reasons...

-Bad Management
-Low stock value
-"Employee owned" perks that now have turned into a nightmare for employee portfolios (Yeah, what was once gold in the bank is now dirt)
-Horrible service
-Horrible baggage handlers
-Spending cash that they don't have
-Ted. Why not Herb? Or Bob? Or Gus? Perhaps an airline named Cleetus that flies between DC and Rappohannock, VA?

Yes, I think that you may just flame me here, but please read this, after all, the cup is only half full...

In the current airline situation, yes, United isn't looking pretty. But, they have tons of employees, those people, I respect, as workers. It's hard enough for me to try to find a job in the states, which is why I'm in Japan, teaching english, making more than what I can make if I were to stay in the states and compete with 40 foreign workers to get that burger flipping job at Mickey D's.

The point is, these people have jobs. And families to feed. They need to survive. If these people are to survive, then United needs to find a way to survive. I don't think that they will just simply let United fall into the historical archives with Pan Am, Braniff, Eastern, etc... I'm sure that something will come around and pull them out.

If United flopped today, imagine how many people would be out of work, and imagine tomorrow, how many people would be looking for another job, out of which, only a few could get, due to the oversaturation of unemployed workers.

Just like Boeing in Seattle, laying off 30,000 workers whenever it feels like doing so.

Then again, if you want to get this economy up and booming, and save that airline from disaster, forget flying first class on Delta. Forget using your miles on American. Forget trying the new Northwest A330, it'll be around for years, as you can see they have kept their DC-9s for three decades now. Put some of your money into this failing economy. Fly United. They need the cash.

Pilots gotta eat, too...



Save the whales...for dinner!!!
User currently offlinePlanespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3529 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6357 times:

GE and United have had a sour taste in their mouths ever since United 292 crashed at SUX in 1989. GE blamed United for foul maitenance practices and United stood firm behind it's MX and tried to shift blame towards the engine and....yeah. United has not ordered GE engines since. they got P&W on their new 777's. My friend Adams dad works at the P&W plant in Maine and got us some really cool models!


Do you like movies about gladiators?
User currently offlineStevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6303 times:

Mariner:

Your post underlies my reasons for why I'm angry with UAL for even pursuing this ATSB thing since Nov. 2002. It sucks! Why would any business entity want the government involved? We all know the government's track record! The problem is...Jim Goodwin back in 2001 went around publicly stating that UAL would 'perish'...and he convinced the capital markets that it would, and guess what? The capital markets slammed their doors (and wallets) shut.

Fast forward to today, where UAL has made HUGE strides in restructuring, and apart from fuel and bankruptcy expenses, are performing MUCH better operationally (if you read the recent press release, UAL paid out a small bonus to employees that was tied to operational excellence!) and once they clear Ch. 11, they will be doing much better. The rollout of TED went well and is even exceeding UAL's original expectations, regaining some critical market share in key markets, while paradoxically not seeming to hurt their competitors one bit. They've hit the DIP covenants every month, and their revenue trends are always better than the same period a year prior.

I think there are some capital markets open to UAL now, albeit VERY expensive, and probably at rates ranging from 10-20%. Expensive money, but as a CFO, I'd rather pay interest on those notes than have the federal government crawling around and being on the hook to them.

It will be VERY interesting to see what happens...


User currently offlineStevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (10 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6295 times:

since United 292 crashed at SUX in 1989

Actually, it was flight #232 that crashed in SUX in 1989....


25 DfwRevolution : Please excuse my ignorance but why will Boeing not option P&Ws on the 7E7? Boeing is only allowing two engine manufactures on the 7E7. According to B
26 S12PPL : Some how I knew when I saw this topic that it'd turn into another "United is going down!" thread in a heartbeat. Sadly, my guess was right. Come on gu
27 Mariner : Steven: Obviously, we agree, if for slightly different reasons. I wonder if UAL became locked into the idea of the ATSB at a time when they certainly
28 Post contains links and images DfwRevolution : And just out of curiosity, UA does have a fleet of GE powered CRJ-700s right? Or are they Mesa or someone else? View Large View MediumPhoto © DSA
29 United_Fan : Dfw,Air Wisconisn owns or leases that CRJ . I think we all know UA swore off GE powerplants after Siox (sp?)City.....
30 FA4UA : I'm not advocating this but: Airbus shouldn't be totally discounted as an option. 1. Airbus is going to put huge pressure on UA to buy more Airbus pro
31 United_Fan : Thanks for the info,FA4UA. I was wondering if the 773 could fly SFO/LAX-SYD ? What are the ETOPS rules ? I'm sure it could be used in place of a 744
32 AviatorTJ : Another rumor floating around the Pilots at UA is that we're going to trade in all the 744's for 773's over the next couple of years. When I was talki
33 CarbHeatIn : Brons2, United has already secured significant non-guaranteed finance from JP Morgan among others. Such profitable financial institutions are not in t
34 KEESJE : B767-400ER should perhaps be most realistic - low cost (Boeing willing to offer bottom prices..) - fits in existing fleet perfectly (crew / maintenan
35 Dutchjet : UA's major concern at the moment is getting out of bankruptcy, closing the loan, and trying to make a profit. That in itself is a huge order. With lot
36 Caetravlr : I'm sure there's a very techical reason why the P&W powerplant was deemed insufficient for the 7E7, but it was RR, GE, and Trent I believe that Boeing
37 Hirnie : The next big order will be A320/319 to get rid of the rest of the 737-fleet. Thereafter they might think of 7E7 or A330.But everybody knows why this w
38 HlywdCatft : **Most likely they will reactivate dormant A320 family orders and eventually replace the 737 fleet. The 7E7 is a possibility in the future....but reme
39 Erikwilliam : How about EMB-195´s to replace their 737 fleet, reduce costs, improve load factors plus get a brand new plane that nobody have it. Just a silly dream
40 Post contains images 7E72004 : They are going to get Northwest's DC-9s when they get rid of them
41 Ual777contrail : FA4UA, I have also heard that the 773 would fit the niche for UAL. Getting rid of the whale however is far fetched right now, but the 773 would look a
42 ConcordeBoy : I was wondering if the 773 could fly SFO/LAX-SYD ? 773A could not; 773ER could in most cases What are the ETOPS rules ? At this point, UA could utiliz
43 AirTran737 : I think in order to save money we will see United try to get Boeing to startup the DC-3 line again. Who knows maybe they can get some DC-9's from Nort
44 Gigneil : Didn't stop them from using IAE engines on their 320/319s. The IAE is a Pratt and Whitney product as much as it is a Rolls Royce product. No surprise
45 MD-90 : United should be dead. The federal government has no right to bail any airline out and waste taxpayers' dollars. Subsidizing the weak...
46 Gigneil : Its not a subsidy. The government pays no money, and if UA defaults, the government gets the assets and takes care of the creditors. The federal gover
47 Caetravlr : Thank you Gigneil, you took the words right out of my mouth in response to MD-90. Hopefully some people on here will learn the defintion of "subsidy"
48 MD-90 : Leigslators are hardly known for resisting the temptation to spend money. Although Ron Paul, congressman from Texas, is an exemplary example. Here's a
49 CarbHeatIn : Guys, as I've said already: "United has already secured significant non-guaranteed finance from JP Morgan among others. Such profitable financial inst
50 Dbo861 : Has UA indicated that they are unhappy with their 737s or that they plan on replacing them?
51 Ual777contrail : DBO861, I haven't heard UAL is unhappy with the 737's, I know they aren't fan friendly. CARBHEA, I know UAL has a plan A and B, time will tell on both
52 Post contains images DfwRevolution : Has UA indicated that they are unhappy with their 737s or that they plan on replacing them? Well they've ordered a massive A320 fleet. I'm not sure if
53 Gigneil : Well they've ordered a massive A320 fleet. I'm not sure if massive is the right word, but they do have one of the largest fleets right? Massive is an
54 Soaringadi : I'm going to say 772 Lr's. Also I would like to say UA will gain back it's full business by 2006 -- 2009.
55 Ordpark : I so much wanted to stay off this thread.... To all of you folks who have offered support for UA, I thank you, we appreciate it.... Unfortunatly, topi
56 NZblue : It would be nice to see UA slim down to fewer, more versatile aircraft types; perhaps a mix of: A319/320/321 (North America) A330 (North/South America
57 WGW2707 : Just a guess, but perhaps United might require something to replace the 767-200 fleet that is due to be retired soon. I believe this fleet is currentl
58 United Airline : The ultimate fleet I THINK will be: 1) A 319/320/321 2) B 7E7 3) B 777-200/200ER 4) B 747 Advanced (if Boeing builds one) Not sure about the B 777-200
59 Aa777flyer : It is quite obvious that MD90 is not majoring in economics. The collaps of a airline the size of UA would have devistating impacts on local economies
60 Ual777contrail : Aa777FLYER, Just my opinion, UAL will NEVER be an all airbus fleet. They may have not been offered the best prices for the 737NG's and airbus wanted t
61 UA744KSFO : Brons2, Well, if you work for the government, then why are we wasting our tax dollars to pay your salary? Talk about an inefficient monopoly that requ
62 Ual777contrail : ua744ksfo, brons2 is probably a TSA agent, that is as far as his government job goes. He was probably wiping a bag down and a UA agent gave him a hard
63 TriJetFan1 : Does anyone foresee an A-340/330 order for UAL?
64 Uadc8contrail : "United should be dead. The federal government has no right to bail any airline out and waste taxpayers' dollars. Subsidizing the weak..." well said M
65 DfwRevolution : Does anyone foresee an A-340/330 order for UAL? United opperates a very large 777 fleet, with 61 on order. That basically rules out an A343 order, and
66 RayChuang : In my opinion, once UA gets back on its feet, they will likely buy more A319/A320 planes to finally phase out the 737-300/500 fleet. And they are defi
67 Planespotting : I heard that United has decided to buy/lease only ATR products from now on. The new ultra long range ATR-92 Turboprop can go from San Francisco Sydney
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