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Qantas Link 717s....  
User currently offlineJohn From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 1374 posts, RR: 5
Posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2413 times:

...why are they disposing of this fleet? I thought they were happy with the 717. Seems like a good fit for the QF Link routes. Could they be too large for certain routes, maybe? Just curious.

24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2950 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2372 times:

I think there may be some confusion about what is happening with QF's 717s. First, they are moving the 717s to Jetstar (their new low-cost subsidiary), and second, they are replacing them with A320s--NOT A318s, as far as I know. My impression was that they were looking for something competitive (in terms of size and range) with Virgin Blue's 737NGs, hence the A320 order. I have not heard that they were particularly dissatisfied with the 717--it just didn't fit with their plans for Jetstar for whatever reason.


Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
Reply 2, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2356 times:

Will the 717's return to QLink after they are replaced at Jetstar by the A320's on order?




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineRuscoe From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1518 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2334 times:

I think the talk is they might be going to Cebu in the Phillipines.

Shame, I find them a more appealing passenger aircraft than either the 737 or 320. My non aviation friends have generally felt the same.

Seems to me there would be plenty of oppurtunities to develop routes within Australia with them. They certainly beat the heck out of RJ's.

Ruscoe


User currently offlineQANTAS747 From Australia, joined Mar 2000, 219 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2288 times:

Wasn't there talk of QF assessing the Embraer's, more noticeably the 190, which is equivalent in size to the 717, but also has a smaller version that could provide more flexibility. And of course they need something to replace the ageing BaE146 fleet.

QANTAS747


User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5554 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2282 times:

OK lets sort out this B717/Jetstar/QantasLink thing once and for all!

The B717 belong to/are leased by Impluse Airlines Pty Ltd, a wholey owned subsiduary of the Qantas Group. Impluse started operatons over a decade ago operating Beach 1900 and similar aircraft on regional routes around eastern Australia. In the late 90s they decided to challange Qantas/Ansett on the trunks and this is when the B717 operation started. They were accquired by Qantas a few years ago.

Their current role is to provide low cost B717 services to other members of the Qantas Group. On the OPERATIONS side Impluse is a fully licenced airline and maintance organisation, independant of Qantas. It does not have ground handling and customer service sections.

Jetstar is NOT an airline, it is a sales and marketing organistation. It contracts out reservations, ground handling and airline operations to other companies, most of whom are other members of the Qantas group. I dont think the reservations company is owned by Qantas, but I could be wrong there, and I am not sure who handles on airport customer service (ie check in and the like).

The A320s are not going to Jetstar, they are going to Impulse, which is currently busy adding the type to their AOC (airline licience) and COA (maintance authority). The will be operated by Impulse, on Jetstar services.

When/as the A320's are delivered, the B717s will be removed FROM JETSTAR SERVICE. It will then be up to Impluse/Qantas Group management to find alternative work for the aircraft and/or to dispose of them. It is my understanding that no such decision has yet been made and probabley wont be untill deliveries of the new build A320s are underway.


Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlinePER744 From Australia, joined Mar 2003, 405 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2231 times:

Gemuser: Actually, JetStar does employ its own ground staff, check the JetStar website for employment information.

User currently offlineMidnightMike From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2892 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2221 times:

Gemuser

The name Impulse was changed to the Qantas Link, just as name the name is being changed to Jetstar. The A320's, from what I understand, will be painted in the Jetstar colors, the pilots that worked for the Qantas Link have signed contracts that they now work for Jetstar. I believe that one of the 717's will be painted in Jetstar colors, the rest will be white tails.



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User currently offlineJupiter2 From Australia, joined Jan 2001, 882 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2208 times:

MidnightMike

Impulse does still exist, as Gemuser said they operate under their A.O.C it is just that their aircraft operated in QantasLink titles and are now operating for JetStar. The name Impulse has never changed, it has just become part of the Qantas group when it was taken over.
Everything that Gemuser said looks spot on.
RL


User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5554 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2180 times:

MidnightMike

Sorry, wrong! QantasLink is a marketing/brand name. there is no actual QL enity. QL services are currently operated by Impulse, Eastern, Southern & National Jet Systems and I may have missed some.

QantasLink basically refers to regional operations. When Qantas took over Impulse, which was a low cost carrier, setup along lines pioneered by SouthWest in the US, it had no work to do as Qantas removed the B717s from the trunk routes so they were given a series of low yeild/tourist type routes previous operated by Qantas Domestic and others, which were then included under the QantasLink brand. Most/all? of these routes have been transferred to Jetstar.

The Impluse name IS NOT being changed at the present time, as they would have to jump thru regulartatory hoops that they dont want to, at the moment. It could be changed later. Currently the CEO of Jetstar is also the CEO of Impulse, so they are very closely connected, but they are still different companies and their relationship could be changed by the main Qantas Group board in the future.

PER744 I have, does not say that the employing company will be Jetstar! Thats your assumption! It is accepting applications for pilots, cabin crew, engineering, operations, customer service & administration roles. The pilots, cabin crew and some of the operations people will HAVE to be employeed by the AOC holder (ie Impluse) for legal reasons, so some of them could also be employeed by the ground service company, whose name escapes me at the moment, but it is also a Qantas sub. Just because its on the Jetstar website does not mean it actually carried out by some one else.

I dont claim to know where exactly the line between the various companies is in every case, but I do know about AOC and COA requirements.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5554 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2160 times:

MidnightMike

A further point about the pilots & cabin crew. They have NOT signed contracts, they have signed AWA's (Australian Workplace Agreements) with Impluse. This is the whole basis for Jetstar, that the pilots & cabin crew are working for the Impluse enity, which has the AWA, basically under the old Impluse conditions, which are very different conditions from other Qantas crews.

By using the old Impluse AWA, Qantas also headed off a lot of industrial trouble by other Qantas staff, as they are NOT new agreements. Without going into a lot of Oz industrial law & history, this was considered a major achivement for Qantas.


Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineVH-KCT* From Australia, joined May 2001, 479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2089 times:

So with 717s re-sprayed, doesn't this mean a serious downsizing (in the public eye, anyway) of the QantasLink brand?

As well as Albury, Wagga etc. QantasLink operated Melbourne-Hobart, Launceston, Gold Coast with 717s so with those aircraft now flying as Jetstar, do QantasLink-branded flights cease?

As far as I understand, Qantas will maintain SOME (read: bugger-all) flights to Hobart, Launceston and Gold Coast, so these return to being Qantas branded flights (400-1599) and are no longer QantasLink (1600+)?

I understand all this is really splitting hairs, as Geoff Dixon's sitting pretty in the middle, either owning or at least pretending to own, everything.



I am The Stig
User currently offlineFallout01 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 56 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2024 times:

Does that mean that the very attractive cockatoo on the Impulse 717's will go away? Or has it already?

I always liked the cockatoo.


User currently offlineBNE From Australia, joined Mar 2000, 3169 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2003 times:

I can't believe some of the misinformation in this thread. Please some of you do some research before you post.

Flights operated by Eastern and Sunstate and National Jet, all fly under the Qantaslink banner. Southern was merged into Eastern sometime last year. There are 10 X BAE146 and 36 Dash 8s operating under Qantaslink.
Towns served include Coffs Harbour, Newcastle, Canberra, Albury, Wagga, Mildura, Burnie, Devonport, Gladstone, Bundaberg, Ayers Rock and other towns in WA plus others I might have missed. Most of these towns aren't likely to be serviced by Jetstar anytime soon except maybe Ayers Rock. Qantaslink isn't likely to be phased out for quite a long time

The Impulse Cockatoo livery was removed from the planes in about 2001. So we haven't seen that around for almost 3 years.

Impulse Airlines operated under a different work place agreements to Qantas.

Jetstars future will depend on whether customers want to pay less to fly but give up the inflight amenties at the same time.




Why fly non stop when you can connect
User currently offlineFallout01 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 56 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1998 times:

Thanks for the info, BNE, too bad about that livery being removed. Obviously, I haven't been to Australia in a while!  Sad

Regards.


User currently offlineQANTAS747 From Australia, joined Mar 2000, 219 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1997 times:

Just to justify Gemuser's facts even more about impulse still existing. Have a little visit to
http://www.impulse.com.au/
It is just a website with a graphic of a JetStar plane, and then the various positions available within Impulse to be operated by JetStar.

QANTAS747


User currently offlineMiami1 From Australia, joined Feb 2001, 706 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1986 times:

GEMUSER -
YOU COULD NOT BE MORE WRONG!
Impulse Airlines as a company changed it's name to Jetstar Airways Pty Ltd on 23 December 2003. FACT. The AOC holder is Jetstar Airways.

'Operated by Impulse' was kept on boarding passes on QantasLink services until 25 May so as to not upset 'Qantas' customers.

Therefore Jetstar is the SAME, I repeat SAME, company Impulse was. They changed their name. The ABN is the same.

JQ employees are not on AWAs! They have EBAs just like their counterparts at mainline. EBAs are negotiated by unions (except pilots who have an in house union). (All non management JQ employees are employed under an EBA). They are the EBAs negotiated in 2002 - long before JQ was on the scene. I know the cabin crew EBA is up in 2005.

AWA agreements are ones negotiated without a representing body. This is NOT the case with Jetstar employees.


User currently offlineMiami1 From Australia, joined Feb 2001, 706 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1962 times:

Gemuser -

The Jetstar AOC; Note OPERATED BY JETSTAR.

http://www.casa.gov.au/casadata/aoc/displayaoc.asp?srchinput=jetstar&andchk=+and+&workgroup=all&rating=all&Location=all&num_results=10&Search=Search

Try searching for 'Impulse'. Bet you don't get far!

I have a very close friend right here who is a JQ FA. Impulse as a company ceased to exist on 23 December 2003. I am looking right at the Memo.


User currently offlineJohn From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 1374 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1917 times:

Ask a simple question, you get a simple answer?? Way too confusing...if you ask me! My original question still hasn't really been answered though....WHY specifically are the 717s being removed??

User currently offlineTsentsan From Singapore, joined Jan 2002, 2016 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1889 times:

John, perhaps the simple answer lay lie in the fact that JetStar wants to be a single aircraft type fleet, that is able to fly transcontinental. The 717 cant do that, but the A320 can. I guess they also want to go head to head with Virgin Blue, who also fly a single aircraft type fleet.


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User currently offlineMiami1 From Australia, joined Feb 2001, 706 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 1761 times:

Tsentsan -
THANK YOU! Finally someone with half a clue! It will be interesting if they go for larger or smaller members of the 320 family. There is some routes where more capacity or less frequency would be good (SYD-OOL and MEL-HBA). And there is also routes where a 320 would be overkill (BNE-HTI, BNE-ROK, BNE-MKY). And a smaller Airbus would be better for opening up new long and thin routes like OOL-PER for example.


User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5554 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1670 times:

Miami1

Interesting comment. Directly contradicts infro from my contacts in Feb04. I have copied your message to all of them, will await replies with intrest.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineBeno From Australia, joined Aug 2002, 428 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1643 times:

Impulse is now knowen as Jetstar.

Impulse no longer exists all staff now work for Jetstar.

Simple................


User currently offlineMiami1 From Australia, joined Feb 2001, 706 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1573 times:

Gemuser -
My contact is someone VERY close to me who has worked for them for 4 years. I have seen all the documents relating to the name change.

You also cannot argue with the CASA website saying Jetstar is the AOC holder.

Look up the ABN. It's the same as Impulse's as it's the SAME company.

Look up on the Qantas online schedules a Jetstar flight. Under 'flight details' it will say "Operated by Jetstar."

If Impulse was the AOC holder it would say "Operated by Impulse".

You may also wish to look up the various EBAs of Jetstar employees. They are not on AWAs as you stated.

You also mention something about crew having to be employed by the AOC holder. Wrong again. Qantas has cabin crew who are employed by MAM and Adecco. Yet they wear QF uniforms, are trained by QF and work alongside QF FAs.

Pardon me for being so blunt but do not tell people they are wrong as you did earlier in the thread unless you know what you are saying is correct. It wasn't.


User currently offlineQFATWA From Australia, joined Jun 1999, 725 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1523 times:

On the thread, but off the topic!

VQI = full livery

VQA & IMP have titles on the front beside the doors both sides!


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