LTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 12675 posts, RR: 13 Reply 2, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4633 times:
It is obious that a significant number of the LLC in Europe are going to fail - just like all the LLC's that were established in the 1980's in the US failed by the late 1980's or became swallowed up by majors. (Southwest started in the 1970's) Europe's airline deregulation occured about 18-20 years after ours in the USA did and is now going through a shakedown like we did back in the 1980's. Even those Euro LLC's whom are in good shape and of fairly large size now may face the problem all airlines are having - the conflict of low enough fares to attract enough people in the seats but high enough to pay for costs and make some profit. The high fuel prices, combined with the economic affects on the individual of those same higher fuel prices for all consumer products may cause an economic dip soon leading to fewer people traveling. From your post above, maybe only 4-5 of these LLC, of various sizes and time in existance will survive for the near future. Of course - God forbid - terrorism could kill all but 1-2 of these companies as well.
Could the large and recent expansion of the EC into Eastern Europe create new opportunities or an expansion of routes for some of these LLC's?
L410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5530 posts, RR: 18 Reply 4, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4614 times:
I'd say there are opportunities in the Eastern Europe, but limited though since the passengers will be generated mainly from "old europe" due to limited purchase power of the average population in most new EU countries.
How can they predict survival chance of WIZZ AIR, which has been in operation for some two weeks only and coudn't possibly show any results?
Snnams From Ireland, joined Apr 2004, 288 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4430 times:
I dont agree with many of the survival ratings at all. Many of these airlines (eg Basiqair) have nicely settled into niches which should see them alright. eg the Rotterdam base. I really dont see FR or EZY encroaching on some of these airlines bases anytime soon.
Airlines that find a niche and stick to it can prosper be they low cost or "legacy". The assertion that all low cost airlines muct have plans of "World domination " in order to survive is flawed.
BestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 6781 posts, RR: 57 Reply 7, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4280 times:
FlyBE - found a niche and exploiting it
EZY and FR - 100% survival - lowest cost operators will always survive
Basiq's survival now depends on what the combined KL/AF strategy is.
German wings - major consolidation needed in Germany
Volare - touch and go - constantly chopping and changing routes. May face FR competition soon on italian domestic routes.
Wizzair - whilst costs in Poland and Central Europe are low, so is disposable income. Poor chance of survival
L410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5530 posts, RR: 18 Reply 10, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4120 times:
I'd guess that Wizz Air might be able to survive, given the fact that Poland, it's home is a 30+ million market and lot of Poles live abroad. I'm not sure about he situation on Poland's LCC market, but in PRG it's getting pretty crowded, with some 13 LCC flying there.
TriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4690 posts, RR: 45 Reply 12, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4014 times:
My bet, therefore, is that Air Berlin will be the first to go down the pan.
Air Berlin's City Shuttle operation (i.e. the low cost part) is only a small, albeit growing, percentage of their overall operation, which is dominated by typical charters to the Mediterranean and the Canary Islands.
They have captured very successfully a niche with their City Shuttle ops, and if you hardly find any low fares it is only an indicator that they are booked out very well (which I can attest from frequent personal travel with them). Therefore I would not give too much about anecdotal experiences like yours in Rome.
[Edited 2004-06-04 15:40:45]
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
SNBA319 From Netherlands, joined Oct 2003, 298 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3980 times:
So whats thew prognosis, any suggestions?
Major oldskool airlines, though still cutting costs and consolidating (both have effect on pricing dynamics, will they attract more pax? Assuming that airline-consolidation will drop low-pricing incentives, yet the presence of LCC's will keep these incentives alive...
LCC's; some might fall, but the market for LCC's is there and will not disappear. Will they settle somewhere towards a slightly higher pricing range? that is what i think at least; after the price wars have taken their toll on all the hopefull candidate airlines, the remaining LCC's will stabilize their prices slightly above their current prices. But such a thing could only happen/stabilise once the whole of the region (i.e. within geographical reach of european LCC's) has been equally opened up to the possibilites entrprenuerial (LCC) airlines, so including the east of europe.
Babybus From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 3626 posts, RR: 5 Reply 16, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3974 times:
"if you hardly find any low fares it is only an indicator that they are booked out very well"
From the outside that often looks like the case. However, many airlines put their prices up when they start getting into trouble. My suggestion would be that the fares ex-London are high because they are making up revenue for the empty seats. Although I have no data on load factors and not willing to pay high fares to find out first hand.
My eyes tell me that they had 3 virtually empty flights leaving Rome. Good luck to them if they can operate expensive aircraft on such loads.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
L410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5530 posts, RR: 18 Reply 17, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 3841 times:
Interesting thing about LCC is that very often the most significant fraction of the total price paid for the ticket are the airport taxes, which are sometimes unbelievably high for the service one's getting. Unfortunately no one can expect any sort of competition in this respect.
Capital146 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2003, 2125 posts, RR: 47 Reply 18, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3537 times:
I was also very surprised to see the odds for FlyBE. My own opinion (not worth much I know!) is that they are much better positioned than what those figures indicate. And is Birmingham-Jersey really considered their 'key route'? Surely BHX-EDI or GLA would be more 'key' or more likely BHD-LGW/BHX/LCY.
Pe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19022 posts, RR: 53 Reply 19, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3456 times:
Cap-i-tan - their 'key route' might be in terms of yields. If this is so, then it would explain a lot, as airfares to and from JER and GCI are generally expensive to very expensive, evidenced by Aurigny charging well over 100 pounds for a return flight to MAN from JER. BE generally charges quite low fares on its BHX-EDI/GLA services.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
PHX Flyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 476 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3330 times:
Airliners World is a nice picture book type of magazine for aviation enthusiasts. However, airline economics is not within their realm of expertise. Hence I tend to agree with those who feel that the "calculated" percentages are mere speculation. Actually, I find those numbers outright silly. Someone explain to me please, why Air Berlin - with losses 4 times higher than Germanwings on their London routes - should have a 30% better chance of survival than the latter?
Also, where is the evidence that low-cost carriers are more adversely affected by sky-rocketing oil prices than those with high operating cost?
Amhilde From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 643 posts, RR: 5 Reply 23, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3190 times:
I should think that low cost carriers would take more squeeze on oil due to their lack of sky high fares for business folk. Yes we all know the B class ppl subsidize the back of the bus, but if you can fill a business section with higher fare passengers and some moderately paying passengers at the back you could still turn a profit in some way even with higher oil prices, especially on lucrative business routes. The LCCs price their seats all relatively similar and make a profit as they have relatively lower costs, but when one of those costs ( which is major) gets out of whack it would have a significant impact on the cost per passenger- impacting the profit margin more than what may be seen on a "high cost" carrier potentially.
Course it all comes down in the end to who manages their costs more efficiently in regards to revenue. And who did the best job in hedging their forward oil contracts.
Airblue From San Marino, joined May 2001, 1825 posts, RR: 12 Reply 24, posted (9 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3084 times:
This article is rubbish.
First of all how WizzAir who started last month had carried 3m pax per year.
Then about Volare (but I think he was thinking about the Volareweb division) he puts as key route the CAG-LTN that's probably the less important route of their network. Also the children known that the key routes of Volareweb are all the routes ex Milan Linate (a slot restricted airport with almost only business traffic, where VA on some domestic routes thanks to the combination of VA and PE slots could offer more or the same number of flights as AZ). Then the Volareweb fleet is not 8, but now is 19 A320s and during last year (the first year of operation) they carried 4.5m pax on their low cost flights.
25 Airbazar: Funny thing is the article doesn't take into account at all, the fact that oil is priced in dollars (dollar has been going down), and the European LCC
26 Backfire: I'm just astonished that anyone can put this bullsh!t "survival rating" on an airline. On what basis has it been calculated? It doesn't give a time-fr
27 BFSUK101: What about Jet2. Flying them in August Prague-Belfast International. Have good livery and a welcome change from Easyjet at BFS. Seem to be doing OK an