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SIA To Order 50 Planes, Wants 2006 Delivery  
User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13742 posts, RR: 19
Posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 8726 times:

Singapore Airlines Limited - A Member of Star Alliance - will order within 2 months, 50 aircraft - a mixture of firm orders and options.

However...

"Boeing is offering it (the 7E7) as one of their candidate aircraft. But of course that aircraft is not deliverable until 2008 whereas we intend to have first delivery ... around 2006 or 2007," said Mr. Chew Choon Seng, CEO of the Airline.

Analysts say that the Airline is extensively courted by plane makers as it operates a relatively young fleet of aircraft, and its purchasing decisions can prompt other carriers to match its lead.

"The numbers are still under development, I should say, but we are looking at least at in order of 50 aircraft, but that would include both firm (orders) as well as options."

Information from:

http://asia.news.yahoo.com/040605/5/1iwcw.html
http://asia.news.yahoo.com/040605/3/1iwd7.html
http://asia.news.yahoo.com/040605/ap/d830nv200.html


Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
49 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineChrisZRH From Switzerland, joined May 2004, 423 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks ago) and read 8550 times:

7E7 would look stunning in SQ colors, i really hope they also think about the A330, regarding the pilots, which can fly A330/340, what about A380?


Christian Galliker - AirTeamImages
User currently offlineVirginFlyer From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 4575 posts, RR: 40
Reply 2, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks ago) and read 8504 times:

Don't forget Air New Zealand said the same thing regarding the 7E7 and delivery, but went ahead and ordered them anyway (along with 777s which will arrive earlier). Perhaps the same thing will happen with Singapore.

V/F



"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
User currently offlineAeroOzzie From Australia, joined Jun 2004, 55 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 8395 times:

Maybe Boeing will provide an interim (767s or A322s) solution as a go-between until the 7E7s can be delivered...

Cheers

AeroOzzie


User currently offlineFlying-b773 From Singapore, joined Apr 2001, 390 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 8345 times:

i think SQ have ENOUGH B777, hope they go for smaller aircrafts like the B767 and A330 family to give them more flexibility in the routes that they fly in. since they already had large aircrafts and more 777s on order, really hope for some 'smaller' surprises.......

User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 22
Reply 5, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8277 times:

A couple more A380's perhaps, maybe a freighter version.  Smile


SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
User currently offlineHamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2744 posts, RR: 58
Reply 6, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8211 times:

Manni,

Possible, but all indications are that SQ is not looking that big at the moment. For this order, two segments are being looked at: 777-300ER/A340-600, and 7E7/A330-200.

Personally, I don't see any chance for the A330-200 to win this order. SQ have already rejected it in two seperate tenders. The liklihood they would suddenly order it now is virtually nil. OTOH, with the A340-500 already in the fleet, a -600 order is entirely possible. Then again, I've heard from three different sources that SQ have determined the 777-300ER is the better aircraft, from a operations viewpoint, to begin replacing the 747-400 pax. fleet.

Time will tell.

Regards,

Hamlet69



Honor the warriors, not the war.
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12476 posts, RR: 37
Reply 7, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8176 times:

This announcement will certainly come as a disappointment to Boeing, which had been counting on SQ as a launch customer for the 7E7. It does open the door a little wider for the 332,but enough for a deal,I'm not sure.

Despite what SQ says, I think SQ will ultimately judge that the 7E7 is theright size for them and that it's worth the wait. I also expect a 773ER order. However, Airbus will want to recussitate the 346 and will be equally anxious to place the 346 with SIA. This willbe a very interesting competition.


User currently offline9V-SVC From Singapore, joined Oct 2001, 1797 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8170 times:

Well Airbus has offered the A332 lite, I don't rule out the A332 lite to win SQ's order. As for long haul, it's very difficult to say.


Airliners is the wings of my life.
User currently offlineFJWH From Netherlands, joined May 2004, 969 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 8009 times:

The links (between brackets!!):

http://asia.news.yahoo.com/040605/5/1iwcw.html
http://asia.news.yahoo.com/040605/3/1iwd7.html
http://asia.news.yahoo.com/040605/ap/d830nv200.html

How many plane's and what type does SQ have now?

Thanks,

FJWH



FlightS in the next 3 months: MSP, PHX, MEM, NCE, TFS, BCN. All round trips from AMS
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 977 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7911 times:

This announcement will certainly come as a disappointment to Boeing, which had been counting on SQ as a launch customer for the 7E7

Indeed, this appears to be shaping into one of the most important orders of 2004. Boeing wants to reach the 200 orders it is predicting for the 7E7 as well as secure another 773ER and possibly 772LR customer. Airbus knows its image as at stake here- the A330 just lost its first order battle with the 7E7 and SIA could drop the A340 for 777s. Airlines are taking notes, and we all know how much Airbus cares about image.

Well Airbus has offered the A332 lite, I don't rule out the A332 lite to win SQ's order

The only thing working in the A330's favor is time. This may become a reoccuring theme in 7E7 vs. A330 battles, but we know AirNZ had ruled the 7E7 out at first. Even if the performance and price is right, SQ could go for the available aircraft regardless, a la A345.

Then again, I've heard from three different sources that SQ have determined the 777-300ER is the better aircraft, from a operations viewpoint, to begin replacing the 747-400 pax. fleet.

If deliveries really are to begin in 2006, Airbus probably won't have the A346HGW in service yet. Given the payload, range, economic advantages of the 773ER, as well as an extensive 777 fleet, I see the order going to the 773ER.


User currently offlineScottysAir From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7851 times:

Now, they already make with the orders of those 3 airlines. It will be good for ANA, NZ, & SQ.

User currently offlineAGrayson514 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 396 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7766 times:

I'm thinking that they are using the 7E7's later delivery date problem to get Boeing to give them a sweet deal.


~Andrew Grayson



Give a little bit...
User currently offlineFrugalqxnwa From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 565 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7612 times:

Two airlines in the pacific have already bet that 7E7 will be well worth the wait, and one of them is a major airline (ANA). SQ should look at both the A330 and 7E7, but I bet they put their money in the same place ANA did, 7E7.

User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13742 posts, RR: 19
Reply 14, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 7602 times:

I'm surprised ConcordeBoy hasn't considered the prosepct of SIA ordering the A330 and the 7E7 and the 777-300ER.

Then in the future when the (more efficient I think it's safe to presume?) 7E7 actually gets build (damn Boeing taking their time), then SIA would ditch the A330.

Having said that, the A330 as mentioned before is not looked upon favorably. Most noticeably, it is heavy.



Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 7493 times:

I'm surprised ConcordeBoy hasn't considered the prosepct of SIA ordering the A330 and the 7E7 and the 777-300ER

 Confused

***********

If you're inquiring as to why I haven't said much on this... is because 1) I don't have anything to say that already hasn't been said, 2) I'd love to see either the A330 or 7E7 get the order as they're both great aircraft, and 3) it's only a matter of time before those A345s get ditched.


User currently offlineSpoon04 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 180 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7309 times:

ConcordeBoy, why do you feel the A345's will get jettisoned?

User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12569 posts, RR: 46
Reply 17, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7285 times:
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it's only a matter of time before those A345s get ditched.

That may be easier said than done! Yes, history shows us that Boeing took A343s off SQ as part of their original 777 deal. But, it took Boeing a long time to get rid of them.

If, and personally I think it's a big if, Boeing took the A345s in trade for 772LRs, they could be stuck with those planes forever! Both the A345 and the 772LR are niche aircraft, they will not sell in the hundreds. Finding a customer for 2nd hand A345s or 772LRs could be a long process.

It really depends how desperate Boeing are to sell 5 or 6 772LRs. If SQ order 7E7s or 773ERs, Boeing may not be too bothered about offering SQ a great deal on the 772LRs. While it would be a nice publicity coup, they could have a fleet of A345s on their hands for a long time.

[edited for spelling error]

[Edited 2004-06-05 20:38:25]


Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineAlessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7250 times:

So Embraer 195 isn´t an option?


User currently offlineDynkrisolo From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1866 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 7128 times:


history shows us that Boeing took A343s off SQ as part of their original 777 deal. But, it took Boeing a long time to get rid of them.


Firstly, they sold them, didn't they? Secondly, it took Boeing a while to sell those 343s, but it was because Airbus tried to sabotage some of the earlier deals. Airbus paid for it, too.


Both the A345 and the 772LR are niche aircraft, they will not sell in the hundreds.


True.


Finding a customer for 2nd hand A345s or 772LRs could be a long process.


You forgot there is an insatiable airline named Emirates, the same airline that took the bulk of the SQ 343s.  Wink/being sarcastic


It really depends how desperate Boeing are to sell 5 or 6 772LRs. If SQ order 7E7s or 773ERs, Boeing may not be too bothered about offering SQ a great deal on the 772LRs. While it would be a nice publicity coup,


It would be more than a publicity coup. Even if Boeing would like to do it, it doesn't mean SQ would want to do it.



User currently offlineND From Belgium, joined Feb 2004, 280 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 7121 times:

Even if SIA was to order tha A345, could a 2006 delivery even be assured? I think if someone on this board is going to make an assumption as to what aircraft SIA is going to order, they should base it on that model being deliverable in 2006.

Another deal here is how the mixture of the 50 orders will be options. My thinking is that they'll order a couple 773ERs for 2006 delivery (if possible) and convert the rest of the options into 7E7s when the time comes.



ND - Hated By Many, Confronted By None
User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12569 posts, RR: 46
Reply 21, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 7034 times:
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Airbus tried to sabotage some of the earlier deals. Airbus paid for it, too.

Just as Boeing would have done in the same position. Airbus had already sold those planes once, and would have known exactly how much to offer A340s to potential customers in order to undercut Boeing's second hand models.

You forgot there is an insatiable airline named Emirates

Yes of course, EK would be a potential buyer for them, but they have limited routes that justify an A345 (but that doesn't stop them operating them DXB-LGW!)



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineAC From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2004, 77 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6999 times:

My thinking is that they'll order a couple 773ERs for 2006 delivery (if possible) and convert the rest of the options into 7E7s when the time comes

Agree. I can't really see which existing or potential routines need so many aircrafts before 2006. I believe SQ just make the order a bigger one in order to get a bigger discount from Boeing or Airbus.



I Believe I Can Fly...
User currently offlineDynkrisolo From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1866 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6953 times:


Just as Boeing would have done in the same position.


It's only your speculation.


Airbus had already sold those planes once, and would have known exactly how much to offer A340s to potential customers in order to undercut Boeing's second hand models.


Unless they know how much Boeing paid SQ for those planes. I doubt Airbus knows the exact details of a contract signed between Boeing and SQ. Airbus did more than just undercutting Boeing, but I can't go into the details.


EK would be a potential buyer for them, but they have limited routes that justify an A345


It's only five planes. Don't forget they have talked about a hub in New Zealand. The 345 could be the hub connector betwen DXB and AKL. Also, additional US destinations like SFO, DTW, IAD, ... There are plenty of opportunities for a creative airline like EK.



[Edited 2004-06-05 21:14:14]

User currently offlineVorticity From United States of America, joined May 2004, 337 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (10 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6887 times:

Airbus had already sold those planes once, and would have known exactly how much to offer A340s to potential customers in order to undercut Boeing's second hand models.

I'm going to have to agree with Dynkrisolo here. Details of offers are usually kept secret for competition purposes. It's in the companies best interest to keep both sides in the dark, forces them come up with their best offer. At least in theory.

It's always a messy deal trying to win contracts. The Aerospace Industry is 100 times more clean then some other industries though  Smile Too much government involvement, they gotta keep clean.

[Edited 2004-06-05 21:25:29]


Thermodynamics and english units don't mix...
25 DfwRevolution : Then in the future when the (more efficient I think it's safe to presume?) 7E7 actually gets build (damn Boeing taking their time) Boeing is hardly "t
26 Roberta : Ooooohhh Boeing and Airbus are going to be busting their balls trying to get this order, expect big discounts. Will SQ be able to recieve the 7E7 in 2
27 N79969 : "Just as Boeing would have done in the same position. Airbus had already sold those planes once, and would have known exactly how much to offer A340s
28 Ha763 : "Didn't Airbus threaten not to honor warranty claims on those new A340?" I believe that is what they said when CX wanted to lease/buy some of the ex-S
29 DfwRevolution : Will SQ be able to recieve the 7E7 in 2008 though, as already 52 have been ordered? From what I have read, Boeing will deliver 2 7E7s a month in early
30 Greg : It's actually genius. SQ likely has no real need for the aircraft prior to 2008, but will 'burden' themselves for two years with higher costs operatin
31 Post contains images AA787 : I think SQ is making this announcement sooner rather than later because if they do buy the 7E7 (which I expect them to) they may be able to get some 2
32 SQ452 : ITs going to be a Boeing order, 777s for sure, most likely the 773ER i cant fathom them ordering an A330 at all. wouldnt fit into their strategy. Im g
33 Roberta : some 777LRs and maybe some more A345s quite a contradicting strategy has arisen in your vision.[Edited 2004-06-06 03:02:50]
34 Horus : In my humble opinion I think they'll go for 7773ERs and 7E7s.
35 UALongHaul : I cannot see SQ really going after a 772LR. I am not all that optimistic that the ultra long range LAX-SIN AND EWR-SIN routes are going to be around f
36 DfwRevolution : Before SQ19/20 started i could see SQ wanting to ditch the A345 for a 777 counterpart when available, but I cannot see SQ spending any more time or mo
37 BWIA 772 : I have the feeling that it is going to be a Boeing order. As most people said they probally want to ensure that they order the 7e7 before there is a h
38 Gigneil : The 772LR can carry a much greater payload and a higher fraction of premium passengers than the A345, and that can mean the difference between profit
39 Asianguy767 : SQ's choice for replacing the B744 on its high density routes is the A380 which arrives in 2006. That would mean then that its fleet would comprise of
40 UALongHaul : "Plus, jesus christ. We haven't heard a single bad word about 345 performance. Its doing great as far as we know, and there's already been substantial
41 ZK-NBT : I think SQ will order 773ER's and 7E7's. The 773ER will replace the 744 while the A380 will take over the very high destiny routes like SIN-LHR and SI
42 Flying lsd : yes, yes ,yes, but if SIA wants airplanes for 2006, which one can be delivered? a 7e7 solution, maybe but for 2008, then boeing needs a interim soluti
43 UALongHaul : "Just because it you have never been on the SIN-LAX flight when it has been full doesn't mean its never full." I never said it could not be, but since
44 Asianguy767 : FYI, the breakeven load factor for SQ20/19 is 85%.
45 Ruscoe : The 345 and the 772LR are going to be great freighters! Ruscoe
46 United Airline : B 777-300ER to replace their oldest B 747-400s, as well as the B 7E7 to replace their A 310s I guess?
47 United Airline : How many A 310s did SIA operate?
48 United Airline : Go to: http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1559425/
49 Dynkrisolo : but the relationship between Airbus and Sia are difficult since the 343 affair Are you sure? Don't you remember SIA ordered the 380 after they decide
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