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Hubs Without Direct LCC Competition?  
User currently offlineCory6188 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2686 posts, RR: 6
Posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2230 times:

After learning of Virgin USA's decision to have their base for operations in SFO, giving UA competition at their last hub without a LCC base, does that leave CO and NW as the only carriers without a strong LCC presence at any of their hubs?

AA has AirTran at DFW, WN/ATA at MDW (in competition with ORD), WN at LAX, B6 at JFK, and numerous carriers at FLL (in competition with MIA).

DL has AirTran at both ATL and DFW, with ATL taking a major hit as a result.

UA has F9 at DEN, WN/ATA at MDW, WN at LAX, Independence Air at IAD, and now Virgin USA at SFO.

US has WN at PHL, and PIT is really only a quasi-hub for them by now.

By comparison, there is nothing at DTW and MSP, and CO has IAH and CLE essentially to itself (WN's stations there are very limited). EWR has limited routes from Song, which is apparently dying anyway. B6 at JFK could be considered a threat to EWR, but EWR has its own population base from much of NJ.

What do you think?

22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2190 times:

How about Charlotte?


Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2193 times:

Gee, Spirit has a pretty large aray of movements at DTW, and WN is also not that small in the motor city!

User currently offlineLas757300 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2186 times:

You are correct when it comes to Minneapolis. The limited flights by Frontier, ATA, Air Tran and Sun Country don't pose a serious challenge to NW hegemony.

However, Detroit does have Southwest and Spirit. Those two don't rival Air Tran's presence in ATL but I could see a day when Detroit gets some good LCC service.



KMSP
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 49
Reply 4, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2160 times:

Hello, what about CVG - That is all Delta, all the time.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 17
Reply 5, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2150 times:

Luv-No Low Cost Carrier serves CVG, period...


Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 49
Reply 6, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2141 times:

I know I thought that was what the question is?


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineCory6188 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2686 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2116 times:

Good point. I didn't even think of CVG - it seems to be more of an RJ hub, so I think more of ATL and SLC as DL's true hubs. I see CLE for CO as being similar to CVG - almost all RJ's while EWR and IAH have the major routes.

User currently offlineCOEWRNJ From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1064 posts, RR: 19
Reply 8, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2107 times:

SLC is more of a RJ hub for DL than CVG is. CVG is DL's second largest hub.

User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 49
Reply 9, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2103 times:

Cory6188 good thread, and I agree CO has done a good job with CLE and use there equipment to its best, meaning the RJ's tho we do have a slew of mainline as well. WN has a decent amount of flights tho no real expansion or additions in a long time. Also CLE is a BIG charter market to the Caribbean, Mexico and LAS.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineCospn From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1605 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2078 times:

WN has many flites into HOU and is a big player in Texas and HOU DAL Flites

User currently offlineChiGB1973 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1613 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2048 times:

I think CVG will see a lot of cuts over the next few years and not be such a hub for DL.

M


User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8892 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2029 times:

Don't forget that CLE does have Southwest service to BWI, PHX, LAS, MDW, STL, and BNA...

Jeff


User currently offlineOuboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4556 posts, RR: 21
Reply 13, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1975 times:

DL cut back in CVG? Probably the most successful hub in the system (its nearly all connecting traffic for a city not much bigger than Toledo), why would you suggest such a thing? Sure it may not be Fort Widget (ATL)...but has definitely defended itself against any LCC attack (AirTran and Vanguard).


Any opinion/comment posted is that of my own and not that of Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineATA767 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 419 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1958 times:

"You are correct when it comes to Minneapolis. The limited flights by Frontier, ATA, Air Tran and Sun Country don't pose a serious challenge to NW hegemony."

ATA has 6 flights a day and does very well out of MSP!


User currently offlineCory6188 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2686 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1944 times:

6 flights a day is hardly a great deal of competition. When I say LCC competition, I mean a hub or something along those lines.

F9 at DEN or B6 at JFK is more what I was referring to.


User currently offlineCOfaninBOS From United States of America, joined May 2004, 287 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1833 times:

IAH needs some more low cost carriers.

WN has 6 flights a day to Love Field in Dallas.

F9 has 3 flights to Denver.

HP has 5 flights to Phoenix.

That's it.

I'd like to see B6 and FL enter the scene. FL currently has flights to Atlanta from Hobby but I could see them doing well with 4 flights a day from IAH as well.


User currently offlineCory6188 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2686 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1771 times:

How maxxed out is Terminal A? CO has all of B, C, part of D (which is only used for international carriers anyway), and E. If any new LCC's wanted to come to IAH, they would have to use A.

User currently offlineUSAIRWAYS321 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1845 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1767 times:

I think that CLT is the largest hub with the least amount of LCC presence. The only LCC that does serve CLT is ATA, and they only fly to MDW 4 times daily.

User currently offlineElwood64151 From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 2477 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1769 times:

Don't forget that CLE is complaining about FL's presence at CAK. While not large, FL is definetely cutting into CO's profits there, particularly with the CAK-LGA route, which hurts CO's ability to ratchet-up the fares on CLE-New York.


Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 49
Reply 20, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1749 times:

Good point Elwood64151 - Tho I believe it is CVG that is the hub with no LCC's and one that I do not see changing anytime soon. DL has lost market share to FL in ATL, they are not going to let in happen in CVG really the last fortress hub left if you think about it.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineSkibum9 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1229 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1752 times:

ChiGB1973,

How in the world can you say that CVG will probably see a lot of cuts in the next few years, to a point that it will not be such a hub. I see the complete opposite. As DL goes forward with re-evaluating its entire business model, I would not be surprised to see them start to shift some of the ATL traffic to CVG. Think about it. DL in ATL is getting hit hard by AirTran, and as a result they are not getting as high of yields as they are out of CVG. Also, there are some operational drawbacks to keeping such a mega-hub, like ATL. Look at every time ATL gets some weather, it basically impacts the entire DL system. This happens more often than you would think and adds undue OPEX. By spreading more flights to differing hubs you can minimize weather impacts to the entire system. As a result of these two points I think you may start to see additional traffic out of CVG, probably East-West traffic and more international, while ATL maintains most of the North-South traffic, as well as international.



Tailwinds!!!
User currently offlineGKirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24906 posts, RR: 56
Reply 22, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1721 times:

BA at LHR? The closest is BE but they operate flights for AF out of LHR. Or do you include EZY at LGW/LTN/STN and FR out of STN as competition for BA @ LHR?


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
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