Horus From Egypt, joined Feb 2004, 5230 posts, RR: 61 Posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 8009 times:
I was reading in an aviation magazine this week that Nice Airport in France ban the use of thrust reversers for aircraft landing there, unless exceptional circumstances arise. Apparently this is to reduce noise pollution to the surrounding areas.
Are there any other airports that have a similar ban (not including night-time bans)?
BMAbound From Sweden, joined Nov 2003, 660 posts, RR: 4 Reply 5, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 7333 times:
BMA STRONGLY recommends aircraft not to use TR (which practically means one shouldn't). A note from the authorities also says that minimum flap setting should be used and a common procedure for GA planes is to remain above the glidepath.
CPH-R From Denmark, joined May 2001, 5870 posts, RR: 3 Reply 9, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6956 times:
Not at all - it's usually airline specific whether pilots uses full flaps or not. On the Airbus series, you typically have a choice of either 3 or Full. And the 767, you have the choice between either 25 or 30/full degrees of flaps.
Vxg From United States of America, joined May 2004, 102 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6933 times:
However you'd think that if you were required to not use thrust reversers on the ground, you'd want to approach at the slowest possible approach speed for your aircraft. Doesn't this normally require full flaps? And how exactly does the flap setting reduce noise?
Frugalqxnwa From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 565 posts, RR: 1 Reply 11, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6731 times:
The minimum flap setting is probably meant as the minimum safe flap setting. They are probably trying to have planes coming in at higher speeds and at idle to reduce noise, although one would think the heavies would have a few problems with those restrictions. Try landing a 744 at max landing weight without using full flaps and without reversers (and please do it in Flight Sim instead of the real world, I do not want to get sued for some idiot taking this suggestion too seriously and trying it in the real world).
Dbo861 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 814 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6370 times:
He said minimum flap setting for GA aircraft. It shouldn't be much of a problem considering how many zero flap landings you must practice before you get your private certificate. On the smaller airplanes, it just means you have a faster approach and you remain in ground effect longer during the flare. Should be no problem for an experienced pilot. Those planes use up so little runway space that runway length shouldn't be a factor at a larger airport.
Planesarecool From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 4110 posts, RR: 12 Reply 14, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6341 times:
Can't aircraft use their brakes anyway? Isn't that the 'squeeky' noise you sometimes hear after an aircraft touches down. When i landed at SAN on a BA B777-200 we didn't use reverse thrust at all and that is a smaller runway to a lot of runways that take Triple-7's. Although i do remember turning off the runway over the piano keys so we must have used the full length.
I think BMABound is referring to GA aircraft when he says minimum flap settings. I've seen a lot of single props stop using less than 100m of runway.
Dbo861 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 814 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6319 times:
I believe airliners usually use the full lenght of the runway on their rollout....especially big ones like 777s. And I'm pretty sure they use breaks simultaneously with reverse thrusters, but reverse thrusters are probably more effective and a prefered way of stopping because brakes will ware out pretty quickly if you only use them for slowing down after landing.
BMAbound From Sweden, joined Nov 2003, 660 posts, RR: 4 Reply 16, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6174 times:
Regarding the question about minimum flap setting -
as a matter of fact, not only general aviation is encouraged to use minimum flap setting. Corporate pilots do the same (if able). The reason for using less flaps is that not as much power is required to move the ship forward (flaps in landing configuration create a whole lot of drag), thus reducing noise.
Vxg has a point about having less of a Vref with more flaps, but if the runway is long enough (5500 ft in BMA's case), each option, especially this one, is a viable one.
Horus From Egypt, joined Feb 2004, 5230 posts, RR: 61 Reply 17, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6125 times:
Nice ? are your sure ?
Here is a section of the article:
Despite its coastal location and because of the high density of residential development, Nice knows it needs to be a considerate member of the local community. In its favour is the fact that it is not a 24 hour airport and its operational procedures ensure noise is kept to a minimum. These includes using the seaward runway for take-offs, a ban on the use of reverse thrust (except when required for safety reasons) and limits on engine test running and APU use. As soon as DGAC (the French CAA) approval is recieved, new anti-noise measures are due to be introduced for arrivals to Runways 22L/22R, routing traffic even further out over the sea.
SegmentKing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 18, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6069 times:
I've noticed more and more pilots doing an "idle reverse" when they land, meaning the shells (or cowlings) that are used to redirect the airflow are still activated at landing, just the engine isn't powered up. this is probably what was going on with the poster who had mentioned he flew into SAN and didn't use reverse thrust...
My boss, who is a former TWA pilot, said that idle reverse is used in noise restricted areas as it still helps to slow the plane down versus not doing it at all..
Access-Air From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1939 posts, RR: 14 Reply 21, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5192 times:
Well I know that when I did my enthusiats flight on the EAL BAC 111-500 out of Bournemouth on 23 March 2002, I was expecting the thunderous use of Thrust reverse upon rollout but was sadly disappointed that none was used especially since every seat in the plane was taken.
I think Hushkitting and mandating that planes meet certain noise regulations is one thing but when cities mandate that airlines not use Thrust reversal just to pacify some self rightous bunch of snobs and endanger the lives of those onboard the planes then we have a serious problem. Thrust reverse is not only used for slowing the plane down but slowing it down FAST to clear the active runway, because if you are in a busy ternminal area like Heathrow or OHare or some other large airport, you usually have a plane barrelling down on your ass next in line to land.
ConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 22, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5168 times:
And I'm pretty sure they use breaks simultaneously with reverse thrusters, but reverse thrusters are probably more effective and a prefered way of stopping because brakes will ware out pretty quickly if you only use them for slowing down after landing.
...considering what you claim in your profile, I should consider the emboldened quote a [not-so-well-played] joke, no?
Sacflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 371 posts, RR: 3 Reply 23, posted (9 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4721 times:
When airplanes are certified and the testing data regarding the minimum landing distance goes into the POH the bonus of using the thrust reversers is not included. The airplane is required to use a runway that will allow the airplane to stop without using the thrust reversers. In most cases, there is more than enough runway with spoilers, flaps, and up elevator, with moderate braking to easily bring the aircraft to a stop. Selecting the reversers without throttling up the engines removes some of the residual thrust making life easier on the brakes, like the attentuators do on the Citationjets. I don't think that brake fires are a real issue except after stops using maximum braking, unless there is some type of malfunction. Maximum braking stops are not normal and very uncomfortable for passengers and one would wonder why a plane is landing on such a short runway to require them.
I've heard that squeaky noise as well after a plane touches down, and I believe it has more to do with the action of the thrust reversers. The air whistles as the size and speed of the airflow changes around the reversers and cowlings.
I'm just happy that RR ratings can't be in negative numbers!