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UA And NW From NRT  
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19454 posts, RR: 52
Posted (11 years 3 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4003 times:

As you know, NW operates from NRT to a variety of US and Asian destinations, including DTW, MSP, JFK, LAX, SEA, SFO, HNL, PEK, BKK, SIN, TPE, ICN, Busan, Guam and Siapan. UA also serves a number of routes from NRT, including to LAX, SEA, HNL, SEA, ORD, PEK, BKK, SIN and TPE. Do these routes generate a large amount of premium (i.e. business and first) passengers? I ask because I suspect that the SEA route, for example, would be mainly leisure passengers, and the same with most of the intra-Asia flights. I could, of course, be wrong. What can you tell me about these routes, like loads, yields and profits, other than most operate US-NRT-Other city?

"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
17 replies: All unread, jump to last
User currently offlineQantas077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5916 posts, RR: 37
Reply 1, posted (11 years 3 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3986 times:

they'd have to be pretty good yields for NW to base 757's and 742's at NRT to serve markets from Asia. i've seen first hand the traffic the NW and UA traffic at NRT, it's phenomenal, not sure about premium traffic but i would imagine that a large amount would be travelling premium classes, people don't really go to Tokyo for a holiday, it's really a business geared city.

i think you'll find the leisure market is moer on flights headed to the US, though i could be wrong.

a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
User currently offlineSquirrel83 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (11 years 3 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3982 times:

Siapan NW doesnt serve these, Pacific Island Avtn, CO and JAL and so on, But I must say that GUM NW Serves a 747-4 out of here to NRT which supprises me that they still have this going.

[Edited 2004-06-06 10:48:34]

User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19454 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (11 years 3 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3970 times:

Squirrel - according to my May 2004 edition of OAG, NW flies twice-daily to Guam from NRT as NW74 and NW24. They do not appear to be code-shares with CO. Similarly, NW flies almost thrice-daily between NRT and Saipan (NW076, NW006, NW077, NW030) in its own right. The only other operator on this route is JO.

"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineUal4me From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 77 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (11 years 3 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3828 times:

I recently flew UA through NRT on my way to BKK...first of all, UA has an entire concourse, or most of it at NRT, and it seemed like (midweek) their loads were strong at each gate. Looked like a mini-SFO with all the UA planes...

My flights were booked at about 95% for midweek on the SFO NRT leg, and 100% on the NRT BKK leg. I was surprised-I know UA used to fly a 777 to BKK, but they upgraded to a 747 a while back on the BKK route-from what I saw, they needed it!

I also noticed (just on my flights) that there were only 1 or 2 last minute FF upgrades announced at the gate-could be an indication that premium travel is high through NRT.

Seeing the loads on my flights, I'm surprised UA is still in bankruptcy...

Where will this amount of cash take me?
User currently offlineCOAB767 From Guam, joined Nov 2003, 1377 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (11 years 3 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3816 times:

NW also serves HNL from NRT.

Continental Micronesia: "Fly With The Warmth Of Paradise"
User currently offlineParisien From France, joined Dec 2000, 836 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (11 years 3 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3807 times:

A while ago I flew NW SIN NRT JFK. The SIN NRT was full full full. THe NRT JFK on 744 was not. This is in economy, dont know whats it like in business. Of course a full Y does not mean it is profitable as I suspect the yield is not too great.

User currently offlineAms From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1692 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (11 years 3 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3804 times:

Yes there are many premium pax out of Japan.
Japan has a large Business class market in Asia,and also because of high demand in the Japanese region.


User currently offlineLeneld From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 606 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (11 years 3 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3795 times:

Northwest is starting service to Narita from PDX on June 10th...

User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7458 posts, RR: 49
Reply 9, posted (11 years 3 months 20 hours ago) and read 3623 times:
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NW78 SPN-NGO-NRT operated with a 757, NW 74 SPN-NRT operated with a 747-200.
NW73 GUM-NRT operated with a 747-200

Made from jets!
User currently offlineCOAB767 From Guam, joined Nov 2003, 1377 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (11 years 3 months 18 hours ago) and read 3560 times:

NW flights out of NRT

NW1 NRTMNL 1915 2245 744
NW2 NRTLAX 1540 0915 747
NW7 NRTICN 1855 2140 D10
NW8 NRTSEA 1520 0755 747
NW10 NRTHNL 2035 2025 744
NW11 NRTSIN 1840 0105 D10
NW12 NRTDTW 1600 1435 744
NW17 NRTHKG 1830 2235 747
NW18 NRTJFK 1550 1520 744
NW19 NRTPEK 1825 2130 D10
NW20 NRTMSP 1515 1205 744
NW21 NRTTPE 1905 2155 756
NW25 NRTPVG 1835 2045 744
NW27 NRTBKK 1925 2355 744
NW28 NRTSFO 1530 0845 D10
NW74 NRTGUM 0945 1410 747
NW76 NRTSPN 1035 1455 747
NW77 NRTNGO 1820 1930 756
NW77 NRTSPN 2030 0100 756
NW70 NRTPUS 1815 2030 756

Continental Micronesia: "Fly With The Warmth Of Paradise"
User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8195 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (11 years 3 months 9 hours ago) and read 3461 times:

There is a good reason why UA and NW have such a big presence at NRT: there was major US-based airlines flying in and out of then TYO (today's HND) back in the early 1950's!

Remember two things:

1. Pan American (PA) already had considerable route authority in and out of TYO by the early 1950's--it was United (UA) that bought out that route authority in 1985.

2. Northwest (NW) actually helped found the modern Japan Airlines (JL) back in 1954, so as a gesture for helping launch JL, NW got a hub operation at TYO back in the 1950's.

User currently offlineNWADC9 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4901 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (11 years 3 months 8 hours ago) and read 3429 times:

Ray, I believe there's another reason, but it only applies to NW:

3. NWA got permission to fly Japanese passengers to other Asian countries.
I don't know the details, but that's my summary.

P.S. I flew on two 757's from and to NRT and BUS:N545US and N565US. The catering is better than USA's. They have sushi, bul-go-gi (I hope I spelled it right, and yes, I'm Korean.), and all sorts of stuff. Oh, and we flew in turbulence season, and we almost hit code 4! I was in the lavatory, freaking out thinking about Airplane!2 were the guy is shaving in the bathroom during landing. I was freaking out!

Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? -Capt. Picard
User currently offlineIowa744fan From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 931 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (11 years 3 months 4 hours ago) and read 3367 times:


As was shown in COAB767s post, there is only one roundtrip a day on NW from NRT to GUM (#73/74 on a 742). Continental Micronesia operates three flights a day (#961/962 and #963/#964 on 767s and #6/7 on 738s). However, they do not list the two as codesharing on those routes. As for NRT to SPN, NW operates twice a day (#75/76 nonstop on a 742 and #77/78 via Nagoya on a 757).

As for the amount of traffic on the Asian routes that are mentioned. With the exception of the longer flights to Bangkok and Singapore, we are mainly talking about 2 - 3 hour flights. The fares for these flights are often quite high. My uncle lives in Singapore and works in Hong Kong and flies UA quite regularly because they are the cheapest on the route, and he often must still pay about $700-$800 a ticket. This is quite common on many of the major Asian routes. So, even if you have leisure travel, they are still paying quite a bit. Plus, as mentioned the amount of business travel between these cities is phenomenal, so I would imagine that they are sig. moneymakers. Before the current downturn, NW had been looking at starting a second flight from NRT to HKG. I don't know how this route does now since I have not flown it for a few years, but when I flew the HKG-SIN route recently, it was completely packed in C and Y class, although still half open in F. However, with the prices that they charge, they should easily make money. When asking the question, think about this. Airlines are in the business of making money. Those NW narrowbodies only operate the evening flights from NRT and with the exception of the roundtrip to SPN via NGO, they only operate two flights a day (to/from NRT) and are on the ground for the majority of the time. So, I would assume that the revenue on these flights is quite substantial if they can afford to let their planes sit so long....of course they could just be foolish!  Big grin JK.

As for the comments about Tokyo. Following WW2 when the air agreement was signed between Japan and the United States, two US passenger carriers would be given extensive rights (including 5th freedom rights) and one cargo carrier as well. The three that were initially chosen were Pan American, Northwest (Orient), and Flying Tigers. Northwest did play a major role in starting JAL, but I cannot say for sure that this was their reason for being chosen. Anyway, in 1985, when UA bought Pan Am's pacific network, they inherited Pan Am's rights, and Fed Ex gained rights when they purchased Flying Tigers...although I don't think that they really use NRT significantly. I assume because of the traffic and congestion, they prefer to stick to their other bases in the area.

One question that I have is about the equality of rights for NW and UA in Tokyo. Do they have similar rights, or does NW hold an advantage. I am curious because as was discussed in another post, NW has quite a bit more ops in NRT than UA (as UA seems to prefer direct point to point service). Just curious.

User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19454 posts, RR: 52
Reply 14, posted (11 years 2 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3202 times:

Hi folks,

Thanks for your replies.

What are both NW's and UA's yields on routes from NRT to the USA like, if, for example, I wanted to fly NRT-ORD (on UA) or NRT-DTW (on NW)? (O&D traffic normally generates more income for the airline than those connecting.) Does anyone know the average loads on flights to the USA and the numbers of O&D traffic?

How important is the transportation of cargo on passenger flights from NRT to
other cities in Asia and to the USA?


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineCospn From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (11 years 2 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3131 times:

Didnt NW operate the first flite MSP-NRT with a DC-6 in 1954 just after Soverty was restored to Japan ?? So NW was the only Airline serving Japn untill JAL started A Few years later..Remember the old Movie Stop-over Tokyo a Young Robert Wagner is enroute to Korea and Liz Taylor works for JAL..in the Traffic Dept..cool movie.he has trouble with his Korean Entry permit..

User currently offlineYulguy From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 246 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (11 years 2 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 3088 times:

As someone who flew on both NW and UA between the US and NRT and between other Asian destinations and NRT many times, I can tell you that these flights are usually full. The business, cultural and family ties between North America, Japan and the rest of Asia definitely warrant the large number of flights. I wouldn't say that the passengers on these flights are predominantly "leisure" travellers. Both NW and UA are both privileged with the distinction of being the only US carriers permitted to pick up new passengers in NRT and fly them to/from other Asian destinations. After JAL and ANA, they are the airlines with the biggest presence at NRT.

"Celui qui diffère de moi, loin de me léser, m'enrichit." - Saint-Exupéry
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19454 posts, RR: 52
Reply 17, posted (11 years 2 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3028 times:

What about the importance of cargo on routes from Tokyo to other cities within Asia and to the USA? How important is it?

"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
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