Pe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 18832 posts, RR: 54 Posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2567 times:
As you know, NW operates from NRT to a variety of US and Asian destinations, including DTW, MSP, JFK, LAX, SEA, SFO, HNL, PEK, BKK, SIN, TPE, ICN, Busan, Guam and Siapan. UA also serves a number of routes from NRT, including to LAX, SEA, HNL, SEA, ORD, PEK, BKK, SIN and TPE. Do these routes generate a large amount of premium (i.e. business and first) passengers? I ask because I suspect that the SEA route, for example, would be mainly leisure passengers, and the same with most of the intra-Asia flights. I could, of course, be wrong. What can you tell me about these routes, like loads, yields and profits, other than most operate US-NRT-Other city?
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
Qantas077 From China, joined Jan 2004, 5745 posts, RR: 49 Reply 1, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2550 times:
they'd have to be pretty good yields for NW to base 757's and 742's at NRT to serve markets from Asia. i've seen first hand the traffic the NW and UA traffic at NRT, it's phenomenal, not sure about premium traffic but i would imagine that a large amount would be travelling premium classes, people don't really go to Tokyo for a holiday, it's really a business geared city.
i think you'll find the leisure market is moer on flights headed to the US, though i could be wrong.
a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
Squirrel83 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2546 times:
Siapan NW doesnt serve these, Pacific Island Avtn, CO and JAL and so on, But I must say that GUM NW Serves a 747-4 out of here to NRT which supprises me that they still have this going.
Pe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 18832 posts, RR: 54 Reply 3, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2534 times:
Squirrel - according to my May 2004 edition of OAG, NW flies twice-daily to Guam from NRT as NW74 and NW24. They do not appear to be code-shares with CO. Similarly, NW flies almost thrice-daily between NRT and Saipan (NW076, NW006, NW077, NW030) in its own right. The only other operator on this route is JO.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
Ual4me From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 77 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2392 times:
I recently flew UA through NRT on my way to BKK...first of all, UA has an entire concourse, or most of it at NRT, and it seemed like (midweek) their loads were strong at each gate. Looked like a mini-SFO with all the UA planes...
My flights were booked at about 95% for midweek on the SFO NRT leg, and 100% on the NRT BKK leg. I was surprised-I know UA used to fly a 777 to BKK, but they upgraded to a 747 a while back on the BKK route-from what I saw, they needed it!
I also noticed (just on my flights) that there were only 1 or 2 last minute FF upgrades announced at the gate-could be an indication that premium travel is high through NRT.
Seeing the loads on my flights, I'm surprised UA is still in bankruptcy...
Parisien From France, joined Dec 2000, 819 posts, RR: 2 Reply 6, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2371 times:
A while ago I flew NW SIN NRT JFK. The SIN NRT was full full full. THe NRT JFK on 744 was not. This is in economy, dont know whats it like in business. Of course a full Y does not mean it is profitable as I suspect the yield is not too great.
Ams From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1689 posts, RR: 12 Reply 7, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2368 times:
Yes there are many premium pax out of Japan.
Japan has a large Business class market in Asia,and also because of high demand in the Japanese region.
Leneld From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 606 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2359 times:
Northwest is starting service to Narita from PDX on June 10th...
Jetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7336 posts, RR: 52 Reply 9, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2187 times:
NW78 SPN-NGO-NRT operated with a 757, NW 74 SPN-NRT operated with a 747-200.
NW73 GUM-NRT operated with a 747-200
RayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 7694 posts, RR: 5 Reply 11, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2025 times:
There is a good reason why UA and NW have such a big presence at NRT: there was major US-based airlines flying in and out of then TYO (today's HND) back in the early 1950's!
Remember two things:
1. Pan American (PA) already had considerable route authority in and out of TYO by the early 1950's--it was United (UA) that bought out that route authority in 1985.
2. Northwest (NW) actually helped found the modern Japan Airlines (JL) back in 1954, so as a gesture for helping launch JL, NW got a hub operation at TYO back in the 1950's.
NWADC9 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4857 posts, RR: 10 Reply 12, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 1993 times:
Ray, I believe there's another reason, but it only applies to NW:
3. NWA got permission to fly Japanese passengers to other Asian countries.
I don't know the details, but that's my summary.
P.S. I flew on two 757's from and to NRT and BUS:N545US and N565US. The catering is better than USA's. They have sushi, bul-go-gi (I hope I spelled it right, and yes, I'm Korean.), and all sorts of stuff. Oh, and we flew in turbulence season, and we almost hit code 4! I was in the lavatory, freaking out thinking about Airplane!2 were the guy is shaving in the bathroom during landing. I was freaking out!
Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? -Capt. Picard
Iowa744fan From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 928 posts, RR: 2 Reply 13, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 1931 times:
First,
As was shown in COAB767s post, there is only one roundtrip a day on NW from NRT to GUM (#73/74 on a 742). Continental Micronesia operates three flights a day (#961/962 and #963/#964 on 767s and #6/7 on 738s). However, they do not list the two as codesharing on those routes. As for NRT to SPN, NW operates twice a day (#75/76 nonstop on a 742 and #77/78 via Nagoya on a 757).
As for the amount of traffic on the Asian routes that are mentioned. With the exception of the longer flights to Bangkok and Singapore, we are mainly talking about 2 - 3 hour flights. The fares for these flights are often quite high. My uncle lives in Singapore and works in Hong Kong and flies UA quite regularly because they are the cheapest on the route, and he often must still pay about $700-$800 a ticket. This is quite common on many of the major Asian routes. So, even if you have leisure travel, they are still paying quite a bit. Plus, as mentioned the amount of business travel between these cities is phenomenal, so I would imagine that they are sig. moneymakers. Before the current downturn, NW had been looking at starting a second flight from NRT to HKG. I don't know how this route does now since I have not flown it for a few years, but when I flew the HKG-SIN route recently, it was completely packed in C and Y class, although still half open in F. However, with the prices that they charge, they should easily make money. When asking the question, think about this. Airlines are in the business of making money. Those NW narrowbodies only operate the evening flights from NRT and with the exception of the roundtrip to SPN via NGO, they only operate two flights a day (to/from NRT) and are on the ground for the majority of the time. So, I would assume that the revenue on these flights is quite substantial if they can afford to let their planes sit so long....of course they could just be foolish! JK.
As for the comments about Tokyo. Following WW2 when the air agreement was signed between Japan and the United States, two US passenger carriers would be given extensive rights (including 5th freedom rights) and one cargo carrier as well. The three that were initially chosen were Pan American, Northwest (Orient), and Flying Tigers. Northwest did play a major role in starting JAL, but I cannot say for sure that this was their reason for being chosen. Anyway, in 1985, when UA bought Pan Am's pacific network, they inherited Pan Am's rights, and Fed Ex gained rights when they purchased Flying Tigers...although I don't think that they really use NRT significantly. I assume because of the traffic and congestion, they prefer to stick to their other bases in the area.
One question that I have is about the equality of rights for NW and UA in Tokyo. Do they have similar rights, or does NW hold an advantage. I am curious because as was discussed in another post, NW has quite a bit more ops in NRT than UA (as UA seems to prefer direct point to point service). Just curious.
Pe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 18832 posts, RR: 54 Reply 14, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1766 times:
Hi folks,
Thanks for your replies.
What are both NW's and UA's yields on routes from NRT to the USA like, if, for example, I wanted to fly NRT-ORD (on UA) or NRT-DTW (on NW)? (O&D traffic normally generates more income for the airline than those connecting.) Does anyone know the average loads on flights to the USA and the numbers of O&D traffic?
How important is the transportation of cargo on passenger flights from NRT to
other cities in Asia and to the USA?
Cheers!
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
Cospn From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1473 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1695 times:
Didnt NW operate the first flite MSP-NRT with a DC-6 in 1954 just after Soverty was restored to Japan ?? So NW was the only Airline serving Japn untill JAL started A Few years later..Remember the old Movie Stop-over Tokyo a Young Robert Wagner is enroute to Korea and Liz Taylor works for JAL..in the Traffic Dept..cool movie.he has trouble with his Korean Entry permit..
Yulguy From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 245 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1652 times:
As someone who flew on both NW and UA between the US and NRT and between other Asian destinations and NRT many times, I can tell you that these flights are usually full. The business, cultural and family ties between North America, Japan and the rest of Asia definitely warrant the large number of flights. I wouldn't say that the passengers on these flights are predominantly "leisure" travellers. Both NW and UA are both privileged with the distinction of being the only US carriers permitted to pick up new passengers in NRT and fly them to/from other Asian destinations. After JAL and ANA, they are the airlines with the biggest presence at NRT.
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