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DC-8 Returns In Passenger Service!  
User currently offlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4329 posts, RR: 35
Posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 10889 times:

I read fantastic news in the new issue of World Airline Fleets News !
Air-Iraq will replace Iraqi Airways as the country's new flag carrier. It will be required to operate as a US-certified carrier. The airline will begin service with DC-8 equipment, the first route will be Baltimore-Baghdad, three times weekly with economy fares of $ 1800. Check http://www.airiraqco.com.
My guess is they will lease the DC-8 from ATI which has some combi 62s which should be able to fly it non stop and take some cargo as well. Another (of course not confirmed) thing is the insurances might rather like the airline flying DC-8s instead of 777s (like MEA hang on to their 707s and 720s longer due to insurance and write off issues when Beirut was not safe).
In a later stadium the airline will take 737s, a 767 and a 777.
If the country's safety is acceptable, of course I will try to get on that DC-8 ! The first ones in passenger service since 1996 (final carriers: Rich, Air Marshall Islands and Aero Peru).


nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
54 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline22right From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 420 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 10796 times:

This brings up an interesting point. What aircraft did Iraqi Airways have prior to the US invasion?

Are any of those a/c still airworthy? (provided US troops didnt rip them apart to find those elusive WMD, or blow them up simply to award a contract to an American company to turn around and replace them.)

If they are still in operating condition, why would this new airline use an antique DC-8 for pax service?




"I never apologize! I am sorry, but that's the way it is!" - Homer Simpson
User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3217 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 10696 times:

After Looking at the business plan, all i could gather about
DC-8s is that they would be used for Cargo services. In the appendix it seems to suggest that a 767-200 was going to be typical.


I would think, that with the amount of very very cheap DC-10s they could get,
or very early A310s or 762s, this would be a very inexpense start-up option for them. Or even an old 742 operating, perhaps even a 752 with a stop somewhere(this would still be faster than connecting in europe and changing planes a billion times).

If there is a DC-8 gonna fly, count me in! I've never been to Iraq. A DC-8 is a good enough excuse.


User currently offlineAvt007 From Canada, joined Jul 2000, 2132 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 10650 times:

Guys, I appreciate your enthusiasm for aviation, but you couldn`t pay me to fly on a DC-8 operated by the USA, let alone Iraq. Old airliners are neat, but jumping on an aircraft older than you are, that probably hasn`t had decent maintenance in decades, that is flown by less than stellar flightcrews, is not my idea of fun!

User currently offlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4329 posts, RR: 35
Reply 4, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 10519 times:

Well IF (Lufthansa's probably right that it will be a cargo only) they will use pax DC-8, it will probably be a machine wetleased from ATI and US registered. ATI's DC-8-62s are in great shape and ATI has a good safety record so not more risky then flying a Northwest DC-9  Wink/being sarcastic. Other pure passenger configured DC-8s are not available any more (either coverted to cargo configuration or scrapped).
The reasons they might use it is they are cheaper to acquire and especially insure then newer types, they are long range and the combi version still delivers an economical product.



nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlineBragi From Iceland, joined May 2001, 218 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 10496 times:

If you are interested in flying an antique aircraft, let it be a Piper Cub or a DC-3. Smile/happy/getting dizzy
I think the DC-8 is a beautiful aircraft, but to give you an idea of what it's like is to fly on it;
The cabin is pretty similar to that of a B-757, except there is more noise and the entertainment system is less modern!
Not hugely exciting prospect for a 8-10 hour flight. Big grin



Muhammad Ali: "Superman don’t need no seat belt." Flight Attendant: "Superman don’t need no airplane, either."
User currently offlineSpike From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 1170 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 10440 times:

Why would Iraq choose Baltimore to fly too? It would be the last place on my list. And the US would not let a pax DC-8 come anywhere near its shores anyway. This is just propaganda right?

User currently offlineDoug_Or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3414 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 10397 times:

And the US would not let a pax DC-8 come anywhere near its shores anyway.

would you care to explain why not?

Why would Iraq choose Baltimore to fly too?
becuse its vaugely clsoe to DC. on their webpage they refer to it as Washington DC (BWI).



When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offlineNwacrew From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 10379 times:

As someone who spent almost a decade working as a flight attendant on DC-8's, you guys are making me suddenly feel VERY old! (LOL)

User currently offlineMikey711MN From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1398 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 10359 times:

This just looks like an aviation enthusiast's pipedream:


Registrant: Dr. Fatola Yazdi
7731 Tuckerman Lane
#204
Potomac, Maryland 20854
United States
Registered through: GoDaddy.com (http://www.godaddy.com)
Domain Name: AIRIRAQCO.COM
Created on: 09-Jun-03
Expires on: 09-Jun-04
Last Updated on: 09-Oct-03
Administrative Contact:
Yazdi, Dr. Fatola yazdi@yazdi.com
7731 Tuckerman Lane
#204
Potomac, Maryland 20854
United States
(202) 256-9000
Fax -- (202) 429-9299
Technical Contact:
Yazdi, Dr. Fatola yazdi@yazdi.com
7731 Tuckerman Lane
#204
Potomac, Maryland 20854
United States
(202) 256-9000
Fax -- (202) 429-9299
Domain servers in listed order:
NS.TERRAWEBSOLUTIONS.COM
NS2.TERRAWEBSOLUTIONS.COM


The guy runs yazdi.com, which appears to be nothing more than a "go to" site for aviation info, albeit nothing special.

Conclusion: I don't believe a bit of this.

-Mike



I plan on living forever. So far, so good...
User currently offlineJmc757 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2000, 1298 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 10203 times:

Cant make my mind up on this one... swinging towards the "fake" school of thought...

On a side note, didnt the old Iraqi Airways have an order with Airbus (A320s??) that Airbus still has on its books to date?


User currently offlineAa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3350 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 10138 times:

On a side note, didnt the old Iraqi Airways have an order with Airbus (A320s??) that Airbus still has on its books to date?

I know for a fact that they weren't A320s, but I can't remember if they were A300s or A310s.

AAndrew


User currently offlineL.1011 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 2209 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 10115 times:

They are for 6 A310-300s, still on the books as the last unfilled A310 orders.

User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 37
Reply 13, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 9852 times:

...the 5 A313s will probably never be produced. The order dates from the mid-80s. The remainder of the fleet, some of which was destroyed, and the rest of which sit engineless and coated in sand in Iraq and Jordan included some 722s and 732s, in addition to 1-3 742s (retired AGES ago), a 747SP (not in bad shape) and maybe a pair of 703Cs, but I doubt any of the "survivors" have flown since 1998, or more probably 1990/1. An Il-76 was configured to carry pax in 2001, to fly between Baghdad and Basra, but AFAIK the venture proved unsuccessful and the first flight was plagued by "technical" problems. Since 9/11 and the outbreak of US-Iraqi hostilities, Iraqi Airways has been grounded, if nothing else through lack of funds.
On a side note, I wonder if Iraqi Il-76s and/or An-26s were used to ship disassembled WMDs to Iran or Russia. I'm not a conspiracist and don't believe there are any WMDs in Iraq, but if I was Saddam, I would have expatriated those weapons after the UN inspectors left in 1998... Who knows?

XV




How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlineOuboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4602 posts, RR: 23
Reply 14, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 9833 times:

And the US would not let a pax DC-8 come anywhere near its shores anyway.

Funny...I see them in Toledo (TOL) nearly every day. Must just be a figment of my imagination or it may just be the haze from the extremely hot concrete in the summers.

Not sure what I'm going to do when BAX/ATI doesn't have the DC-8s anymore; they are kinda neat to watch them come in in the early afternoon against a deep blue sky. However...that discussion is for another time and place as it isn't public yet.  Smile


User currently offlineGreasespot From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 3084 posts, RR: 20
Reply 15, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 9739 times:

ummmm those are freighters and NOT PAX airplanes.

GS



Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
User currently offlineJHSfan From Denmark, joined Apr 2004, 469 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 9171 times:

This may give you an update on the fate of the old planes of Iraqi Airlines. 'Commercial Aviation Today' has had an article on their website for some time (more than a year): Whatever Happened to Iraqi Airways?
Go to http://www.commercialaviationtoday.com/archives/2003/1-1023-cat-3-Feb-03.htm

Hope that Air-Iraq will succeed Smile

Yours in realtime
JHSfan



Look at me, I´m riding high, I´m the airbornmaster of the sky...
User currently offlineNWADC9 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4897 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 8903 times:

I see terrorists boarding these flights heading towards BWI, making another 9/11

So right now,
"I see dead people."



Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? -Capt. Picard
User currently offlineOuboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4602 posts, RR: 23
Reply 18, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 8880 times:

ummmm those are freighters and NOT PAX airplanes.

GS


Perhaps you aren't aware that ATI being the last passenger DC-8 airline in the world (according to one media source) is hubbed in Toledo. Therefore, all of their passenger DC-8s are either usually parked on the BAX ramp or transit through here on their return from overseas.

Another interesting note, ATI/BAX was awarded 3 weekly slots flying between Toledo and Baghdad - Toledo is one of 3 or 4 cities that currently have commercial flying rights to Iraq.


User currently offlineDeltaMD11 From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 1701 posts, RR: 34
Reply 19, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 8853 times:

Avt007,
In reference to your post above about not wanting to fly on aircraft that are older than you: There are set maintenance standards here in the US (and similar civil aviation admin's world wide). As long as those aircraft meet those standards, they are as safe as anything else flying. I'd rather go with tried and true personally. Years don't mean anything as far as an aircraft's age is concerned, it's cycles. Nothing to worry about with flying on the older birds, just as long as they are properly maintained.

Edit: P.S.-Wouldn't it be thrilling to be able to look out of your window and see these JT3D's slung out there grinding away?


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Sam Chui



[Edited 2004-06-08 03:52:45]


Too often we ... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - John Fitzgerald Kennedy
User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 37
Reply 20, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 8670 times:

You have to be honest: Air Iraq will become the laughing stock of the planet! Acquiring a DC-8 for transatlantic flights is something that hasn't been done for over 35 years. It's not "retro", it's backward. The last DC-8 rolled off the production line in 1972, and none have been flying pax regularly since 1996. It's not a matter of age--they're great freighters and the CFM upgrades and glass cockpits have made a huge difference, but I'd still be a little insulted if the country that had made breakfast out of large parts of my homeland and blown some far younger aircraft to smithereens proposed to create an airline by the name of "Air Iraq" operating DC-8s. I mean why not DC-3s or Caravelles while they're at it, or even L-100s?
C'mon! There is such a surplus of B742s, B752s, B762s, L-1011s and DC-10s, or even A300s and A310s that I don't see where the economics lie in antiques like the DC-8. It is a joke. ARIANA even got a better offer, and when Somalia finally gets on its own two feet and establishes a single government, it will too!
Of course, this whole DC-8 story could just as well be a fictitious parody, which hopefully, for the sake of Iraq's dignity and self-respect, it is...

XV




How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlineMD11LuxuryLinr From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1385 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 8563 times:

I'll believe it when I see the pics of these DC8s arriving to Baltimore on A.net. Otherwise, I'm thinking that someone forgot when April 1st really is.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Avt007,
"Aircraft are like fine wine. They just get better with age."~~ That coming from on of the 'big guys' at the NTSB. Remember that. Of course, you have a right to your opinion and preference.

Saying that older airplanes would be flown by 'less than stellar flight crews', wasn't very nice.  Big grin



Caution wake turbulence, you are following a heavy jet.
User currently offlineDoug_Or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3414 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 8381 times:

LV- I think the poinnt of the -62 would be those alrady outlines, namely-

-lower insurance cost than almsot anything out there
-Combi configuration (I'm assuming there's more time sensitive frieght than people wanting -to make the trip)
-range (this one I don't know about- can a -62 do bagdad-DC?)

the only other aircraft I could see fulfilling this role would be a 742, but there would be way to much capacity.

that said, neither the site nor the registration looks super professional. but on the other hand if you're wet leasing your fleet for a single route, you're not going to have something on par with United.



When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offlineFlybynight From Norway, joined Jul 2003, 1005 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 8321 times:

nwacrew - What airline did you fly the 707 with? Northwest Orient?


Heia Norge!
User currently offlineJderden777 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 1755 posts, RR: 29
Reply 24, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 8305 times:

Avt007:

i personally fly airplanes that are older than i am all the time...doesn't bother me one bit...

plus, i'd love to fly on a classic like the dc-8...never got to :-(

jonathan d.




"my soul is in the sky" - shakespeare
25 Rj777 : "Otherwise, I'm thinking that someone forgot when April 1st really is." I wonder how many times THAT has happened around here?
26 Avt007 : Folks, my point is, in general, if you are a company flying a DC-8, chances are you are not the cream of the crop. Sorry, nothing personal in all this
27 Post contains images Vorticity : i personally fly airplanes that are older than i am all the time...doesn't bother me one bit... I took a ride on the only flying Boeing 247 once in a
28 VirginFlyer : The most suspicious aspect that struck me was the fact the page is using the old Iraqi flag in the logo, as opposed to the new blue and white one (unl
29 DeltaMD11 : Avt007, It's not a matter of nostalgia. It's what you are saying is absolute balderdash and that's why you've ellicted some responses. As long as any
30 SQ25J : Ethiopia is a bad example to assert their maintenanace standars are inferior to western/developed nations. A former US ambassador was quick to cite th
31 737doctor : As someone who worked on DC-8's for 6 1/2 years and as a current mechanic for Southwest, let me say that, Avt007, you are completely wrong. Your react
32 Post contains links Russophile : Air Iraq or Sky Airline? http://www.sky-airline.com/ What is it to be? Khaleghi Yazdi who is the apparent brains behind this outfit is said to have ha
33 DeltaMD11 : SQ, If what you're saying is true (I don't know much about aviation in Ethiopia so maybe I should have chosen another country) allow me to rescind Eth
34 Cessna172RG : Ok, my turn... **cracks knuckles and puts away another Martini** There are three types of people that partake in conversations on this board. There ar
35 LVZXV : C172RG: All I am saying is that it must be a first in aviation history that a jet airliner to the likes of the DC-8 goes back into passenger service a
36 Cessna172RG : To LVZXV: My comments weren't targetted at your specific topic, however, it's nice to have some two way communication at times on the forums. And yes,
37 Post contains images NoelG : Why would Iraq choose Baltimore to fly too More to the point; why would anyone from Baltimore want to fly to Iraq? Noel.
38 Post contains images Thrust : That is great news! Now for the Boeing 707.
39 Avt007 : I am trying to put some sense into those that would blindly jump on a DC-8 just because they can, without considering the whole picture. If an a/c has
40 Vorticity : A properly maintained DC-8 could safely fly passenger service yes. It wouldn't have some of the safety features that more modern jets have, that aside
41 Avt007 : One last comment, because I'm waiting to board a flight to the land that time forgot, where internet access doesn't exist in the deep desert. I have f
42 Post contains images Espion007 : great excuse to go to baghdad-and of course the fact that BWI is one of my local airports
43 Dc8jet : I think everyone is missing something here as far as the DC-8s go. There are no series 63 and 70 passenger aircraft left. The expense would too great
44 Dazed767 : ATI has 4 -62 combi's out there. I found out today that a rock star/group chartered one for about a month! How cool would it be to get 30 of us to do
45 Cospn : Don't ATI's DC-8's have only 33 pax seats ???
46 Planeviewnyc : Wake me up when AA starts daily JFK-Baghdad 777 service.
47 Dbo861 : Is there much of a demand for a USA-Baghdad route? It's not exactly a huge tourist destination. Also, what's the airport identifier for Baghdad Intl?
48 Iowaman : It was(is) RBS I think.
49 CFM-56 : A story not to believe in.It is so obvious this guy has nothing else to do than make up tales about Air-Iraq,Sky-Airlines and so on.
50 Spike : Cessnawhatever, I think the opnly people you would have pissed off with that drivel are the Bangladeshis. Learn to spell.
51 LVZXV : Baghdad=SAD (Saddam Hussein Int'l) - I think... XV
52 JGPH1A : Re codes for Baghdad... A:APT B:BUS C:CITY G:GRD H:HELI O:OFF-PT R:RAIL S:ASSOC TOWN BGW*C BAGHDAD . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . /IQ . .
53 Post contains images Northwest717 : While I am waiting for a big public press release, this story could be true. CFM-56, being a little cynical, aren't ya? Anyways, I hope they establish
54 JGPH1A : I think from a purely logistical point of view, the Iraqi Interim Council or whatever its called will revive Iraqi Airways, rather than letting some U
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