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Kerry Vs Bush And Aviation  
User currently offlineJuanchie From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 190 posts, RR: 0
Posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2814 times:

I am preparing to vote in my first presidential election so I am taking the steps to make an imformed desicion on who I want leading the US. Personally, I like neither candidate (Im waiting for Guliania or McCain as I think they are good leaders). How would Kerry or Bush affect the airline industry in the next four years if either gets elected. Does either have a plan to protect airlines, air travel or immigration security?



Juan Carlos


God, forgive me for who I am, and help me be the man I want to be.
35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineInnocuousFox From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2805 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2737 times:

To be honest, as much as we all love it, the airline industry should be a little lower on your priority list of selecting a candidate. There are bigger considerations...


Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
User currently offlineJuanchie From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 190 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2729 times:

Well I figure I should look into all aspects of a candidate that are going to affect my life. And Im sure its high on people's list if they or their family work in aviation. But that just my view.


God, forgive me for who I am, and help me be the man I want to be.
User currently offlineInnocuousFox From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2805 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2718 times:

Domestic economic policy and foreign security both have an indirect effect on everything else - including aviation. If you have a candidate who is going to tax the piss outta corporations and/or individuals, air travel will suffer. However, tax policy is not generally associated with "airline industry policy".


Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
User currently offlineAtcboy73 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1100 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2674 times:

Here you go.

http://www.natca.org/currentissues/staffingclipsdetail.asp?id=6

There are many different estimates on the situation. Some show as many as 50 percent of controllers will be eligible for retirement in the next 7 years. These are many of the controllers that were hired to replace the fired PATCO controllers.

The link above states the Bush administrations 2004 budget allows for the hiring of just over 300 controllers and the currant proposal for the 2005 budget has NO money for new hires.

Even though Mineta says his plan is to triple air traffic capacity the Bush administration cut 400 billion from the budget that would of allowed the FAA to acquire new technology.

It looks to me like Bush wants the ATC system to fall on its face so it has to be sold to the lowest bidder, which would probably be a big Bush campaign contributor  Big thumbs up.

Think of how costly this whole situation is going to be as jets sit on taxiways and at gates because places like ORD tracon (already understaffed) doesn't have enough controllers to work the planes and ABQ center (already understaffed) makes planes at DFW and IAH sit for the same reason.

Think this is a few years off? Its already happening. SJC has had to close early due to lack of staffing and Oakland center has had to restrict inbounds from overseas due to not having enough controllers.

Its only going to get worse. I say we just close the FAA and send the money to Iraq so we could build more oil infrastructure and have cheaper oil for when we all have to drive.  Big thumbs up


User currently offlineJmacias34 From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 379 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2628 times:

Atcboy,

Correct me if I am wrong, but is Kerry against privitization? I thought I read that he was against privatization in a NATCA article, but I can't seem to find it. As a CTI Student, I'm against privatization. In our classes we've had debates on which way to vote and who offers aspiring controllers the best option, and as of now it looks to be Kerry.

I just don't like the fact that he has 'The Real Deal' on his 757.

-Joe


User currently offlineAFHokie From United States of America, joined May 2004, 224 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2593 times:

Don't forget that the ATC situation for civil aviation directly affects the military too. There's been a "revolving" door occurring in DoD for controllers due to numbers of the FAA controllers that are reaching retirement eligibility.

A lot of the kid's that are enlisting and becoming controllers due so with the intention of serving out their initial enlistment and then getting out and working for the FAA. I can't say I blame them, they get the training and a few years of experience, and then get out and easily double if not triple their salary. Even a DoD contract controller makes on average at least twice as much as what they would by staying in as and E-3, E-4.

The reenlistment bonus helps to offset the pay imbalance some, but then when you include the deployments to the many "garden" spots of the world, the time away from family, etc. That often makes the choice for them pretty easy.

It can get pretty tough when you're trying to convince a 23yr old to stay in and continue to serve their country for lower pay and long hours, extended time away from family when they have offers to work LAX tracon with a starting salary that is six figures.

I agree with atcboy73 that it's going to get worse, not just for civil aviation, but all across the board.



User currently offlineAtcboy73 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1100 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2581 times:

LOL, the word DEAL, thats great.

For those that don't know, the word deal is slang in ATC circles for a loss of separation situation.

NATCA has endorsed Kerry as Bush has shown he is anti air traffic control as it is today, yet he and the heads of the FAA that he appointed (Blakey) seem to have NO CLUE. She just now, seems to be realizing that a ton of here controllers might not be here in five years. It takes controllers to train controllers. If you don't have enough controllers to staff the positions you have that how can you staff positions to work traffic and also train?

There is possible progress though with Chew (new second in command, if you will) and the new ATO.

From the looks of things today Kerry offers the best hope for an aspiring controller. This should not be debatable.

And yes, I believe Kerry is anti privatization.


User currently offlineInnocuousFox From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2805 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2556 times:

"but is Kerry against privitization?"

No matter what the topic, by very nature of his platforms, Kerry will always choose Government intervention and control over private industry. Apparently you and I are only capable of making responsible decisions if we receive our paychecks from the Federal Government.



Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
User currently offlineLas757300 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2554 times:

There were some reports last week surrounding the presidents next budget which included cuts in home land security. The details are, as of yet, unknown, but its safe to say Kerry would not propose similar cuts. On the other side Kerry will probably push for an increase in taxation, but when you're an airline there is little income to actually tax. I think Kerry is more friendly to aviation, but my earlier praise of Ted Kennedy should give you an idea of where I'm coming from politically.


KMSP
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40071 posts, RR: 74
Reply 10, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2551 times:

Atcboy73's comments are a real eye opener. Is Bush good for anything?
It sounds like Bush is bad news across the board. John Kerry would make a much better leader and I think the there will be a much better business enviornment under Kerry.



Juanchie:
Who is Guliania?



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineSupraZachAir From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Feb 2004, 634 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2503 times:

-I read an article the other day (Fortune Mag, i believe) about how over the last half century the administrations that spent the least were when different parties controlled legislative and executive branches (Clinton, Nixon, Ford, Reagan). So if not for the reasons above, maybe getting congress and the president to quit rubbing and tugging eachother off is the way to get them to quit spending damn money.

-Here's the article: http://www.cato.org/research/articles/bandow-040420.html

-Although I don't know Bush's official views on Boeing, I know Kerry has said he is prepared to level the playing field if Airbus continues the be subsidized. He also is in favor of the KC-767 tanker deal. Now, we'll hope he doesn't flip flop on these statements...


User currently offlinePitrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3255 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2470 times:

"He also is in favor of the KC-767 tanker deal", referring to Kerry.

Kerry has been against every major piece of new military equipment since he has been a senator. Trident subs, B-2, etc., the list goes on and on.

The most important thing for the airline industry is a strong economy and security. Bush has taken the Clinton recession he inherited and turned it around to gain 600,000 new jobs in the last 3 months alone. While Clinton did nothing to those who attacked the WTC 1993, US embassies in Africa, housing complexes in Saudi Arabia, and the USS Cole (an attack which was an act of war), we finally have a President who has the balls to go after these guys. Kerry isn't Clinton, but I have not seen a reason why he would be different. Better security is good for the airline industry, and this election is an easy choice for me.



FLYi
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6491 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2448 times:

Bah, single-issue voters!


When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineAmerican762 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 175 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2430 times:

You know what, politics should be left out of aviation. Neither President is going to make a HUGE difference in the aviation world. The most any modern president has done involving airliners was Clinton tripping on the steps of Air Force One.  Nuts

Unless we get that damn King couple and their incredibly wry humor into the presidency, aviation should not play a big part in your vote. I'm only 17 and can't vote, but follow the politics closely, maybe I don't know as much with presidential views on aviation as much as someone who works as ATC (ATCBoy73) but I know enough to know that neither candidate will have an impact on it.

N328KF Writes:
"Bah, single-issue voters!"

I write:
Bah, single-phrase posters!

[Edited 2004-06-08 22:08:30]


Pan Am has a place of its' own. You call it the world, we call it home.
User currently offlineInnocuousFox From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2805 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2428 times:

"John Kerry would make a much better leader and I think the there will be a much better business enviornment under Kerry."

Certainly you are kidding... right?  Confused

"[snip] ... the presidents next budget which included cuts in home land security. [snip] ...its safe to say Kerry would not propose similar cuts."

Why do you say that? I can see Kerry being against some things. One of the "cuts" is the re-privatization of the security screeners at airports. Kerry would oppose that becuase he wants Federal fingers in it (and everything else). Why would the Feds run it any better than a private company? It's the same bloody people doing the same bloody job!



Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
User currently offlineSupraZachAir From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Feb 2004, 634 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2417 times:

Pitrules,

Easy bud. I can't fault you for being passionate, but its bordering on sounding like a puppet. I say he's in favor of the tanker deal because I heard the words out of his mouth when he came to Seattle. I'm well aware of his history on defense. Its pitiful. He voted against B-2, Abrahms, battle armor, etc etc... Not good. And don't get started on Clinton. I understand what your saying, and frankly, I agree. But try and look at both sides. Thats all.

-Zach


User currently offlinePitrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3255 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2346 times:

Zach

I didn't mean to come across as a talking head for Bush, and I agree with you that whomever is elected needs to cut spending. But I have looked at both sides (on many issues, not just aviation), and in my opinion, Kerry is weak. John Edwards would have been much more attractive for the dems.....



FLYi
User currently offlineSupraZachAir From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Feb 2004, 634 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2319 times:

Pitrules,

Agreed with you on every point. Kerry and Bush are both weak. Edwards vs. McCain would be my preference, but whatta ya do?

-Zach


User currently offlinePitrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3255 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2292 times:

Edwards vs. McCain would be a great (and close) election. I'm not sure which one would be better for the airlines.


FLYi
User currently offlineDan-air From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 614 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2280 times:

Why would the Feds run it any better than a private company? It's the same bloody people doing the same bloody job!

The environment pre-9/11 was lowest-bid private companies paying minimum wage, no background checks on screeners.

Look, saying that Kerry wants the "Feds fingers in it and everything else" is just plain ridiculous. What's your reasoning for saying this? What would Kerry's possible motivation be for insisting on government involvment in US citizens' security vs. handing the responsibility over to unregulated private contractors?

This myth that somehow private companies are always more efficient and cost-effective than government is shop-worn rhetoric. Why are companies in business? To make money. As much as possible. If they can push a few bucks to the bottom line by cutting corners, that's what they do.

Oh and the "600,000 jobs created by Bush"? The economy lost 3.5 million jobs in the 3 years of Bush's reign!!! This country needs to find 140,000 new jobs every month just to account for people entering the workforce. And just how badly did Clinton run down the military? We pounded Afghanistan and Iraq using equipment planned for and procured during Clinton's administration. Get your bloody facts straight Fox News fans!

[Edited 2004-06-09 01:23:08]

User currently offlineBoingGoingGone From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2240 times:

Atcboy73's comments are a real eye opener. Is Bush good for anything?
It sounds like Bush is bad news across the board. John Kerry would make a much better leader and I think the there will be a much better business enviornment under Kerry.


Don't ever put all your faith in the opinion of a disgruntled Air Traffic Controller. ATC privatization is a good thing. Only legacy Union types say it isn't, and there is no statistical proof to support their claim that the skies are somehow less safe under privatization.


User currently onlineAloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4525 posts, RR: 15
Reply 22, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2236 times:

Let me put it this way:

John Kerry is a private pilot and educated about the airline industry. He pays attention to the ongoing situation of Airbus vs. Boeing. About competing companies in the aviation industry. Many times he has called for the government to "level the playing field" with Airbus...if Airbus is going to hurt Boeing's business by undercutting prices because Airbus is subsidized, then he says boeing should recieve subsidies too to make it fair play.

Everything I've heard from Kerry on the aviation front speaks of a person that actually KNOWS something about it and cares about it. Bush, on the other hand, seems like he couldn't care less unless he gets a photo-op.

So I would believe that because Kerry actually has an interest in the industry and is licensed himself as a private pilot, that he will be a friend to BOTH commercial aviation AND General Aviation. Whereas under the current admin, GA seems to be scorned like the plague.


Again, it's your choice, but on every issue, including aviation, of Bush vs. Kerry, I find Kerry's proposals much better. I've seen what kind of leader Bush has been in the past 4 years. I've seen what's happened to the aviation industry (some things aren't entirely his fault), and I really think it's time for a change.



User currently offlineBoingGoingGone From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2226 times:

I've seen what's happened to the aviation industry (some things aren't entirely his fault), and I really think it's time for a change.

How about:

I've seen what's happened to the aviation industry. Nothing is Bush's fault, and regardless who is elected, nothing will change. Unless of course Kerry get's back on the re-regulation bandwagon.


User currently offlineAir1727 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2190 times:

How about: ditto to Boing's comment...my thoughts exactly...

25 Post contains images InnocuousFox : @Dan-Air I find it quite amusing that you don't know what you are talking about - that you regurgitate alleged facts that have been fed to you by a va
26 Doug_Or : RE: president having no effect on airline industry- tell that to any of the pilots who had their strikes broken by presidential order. tell that to th
27 Air1727 : I won't tell that to any of them Doug because #1: PATCO's strike was a matter of jeopardizing national airspace efficiency and was done completely imp
28 Aviationwiz : You really shouldn't be basing your vote off of how they might effect the airline industry. Make it a contest of ideas, who better fits your needs for
29 Lymanm : Actually Kerry isn't a private pilot...he's multi-commercial rated with his sea plane rating. Which make him a more qualified pilot that 99% of the us
30 Atcboy73 : It depends on what type of ATC privatization you are talking about. A system that puts safety above all else would be awesome. If it can make money, i
31 Slider : Wow- lot of opinions on this thread, so I'll jump in with mine as well. First and foremost, neither of these two gentlemen could effectively deal with
32 InnocuousFox : "Do you GA pilots want to pay user fees?" Nah... just have the rest of the non-flying public pay for it through taxes. After all, you said it yourself
33 Post contains images StevenUhl777 : Im waiting for Guliania Ummmm....who? Could you mean Rudy Guliani, former mayor of NYC? Sounds like you might need to do some more research...still, t
34 SupraZachAir : Too bad he is so damn liberal, though. Doesn't it make your stomach turn? I start thinking, "hey he's not as bad as I thought. I actually agree with h
35 Dan-air : InnocuosFox Yawn. OK Mr. Limbaugh, which "alleged fact" is incorrect, since I don't know what I'm talking about, why don't you regurgitate some facts
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