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Boeing Issues Safety Warning Over Jet Cracks  
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12336 posts, RR: 18
Posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6528 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Two secondhand Qantas B744's that were grounded last year after severe cracks were found in the fuslage during maintaince have prompted Boeing to issue a world wide safety warning. So far more then 40 Boeing planes have been found with the same problem. So far 32 Boeing 737s, four 747s and seven 757s have been found with severe cracks in the fuslage.

Source http://www.ozflight.com.au/

Please no A v B war

28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29832 posts, RR: 58
Reply 1, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6472 times:

Please no A v B war

You know if it where a Lockheed, we wouldn't be having these problems.





OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineWorldoftui From Sweden, joined Aug 2007, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6455 times:

Never mind an A vs B thing. Whoever made them, there is one clear thing.....

This is bloody worrying. That's quite a high number of aircraft with, what sounds like, quite a severe safety issue.

You know if it where a Lockheed, we wouldn't be having these problems.

LOL L-188, although not quite sure if you are being serious or not!  Big grin


Mark

PS BTW 777ER - Love your signature. 100% factual IMHO!  Smile



User currently offlineBuckfifty From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 1316 posts, RR: 19
Reply 3, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6417 times:

You know if it where a Lockheed, we wouldn't be having these problems.

Lockheed? Bah. According to my figures, the number of Tristars sold last year was 0, which means that they're crap.  Big grin


User currently offlineShenzhen From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 1712 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6401 times:

I think the Headline "Boeing Issues Safety Warning" is just a tad bit misleading. There were certain maintenance facilities around the world, that when the airplane was stripped for repainting, used a hard sharp object remove sealant and or cut decals that had been applied to the side of the airplane. Then they re-sealed/repainted the airplane covering the damage.

Over time (years), the scratches, cuts, gouges (whatever you want to call them) to the skin can crack due to fatigue. Most, if not all airplanes that have had their paint stripped at these handful of MROs, have been inspected and appropriate action taken.

Lets stop the hysteria before it starts.

Cheers



User currently offlineWorldoftui From Sweden, joined Aug 2007, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6367 times:

Dont think that I was hysterical?

But a "severe" crack sounds fairly serious, no?

Mark

Don't worry though. Wont panic. No-one need slap me or anything to calm me down  Big grin


User currently offlineGREATANSETT From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 509 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6355 times:

Wasn't it this type of problem that led to the Ansett 767-200 grounding in 2001?


Ron Paul 2012
User currently offlineVoodoo From Niue, joined Mar 2001, 2101 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6326 times:

re: Lockheed, no problems

Actually, and I am a big Tristar fan, they did have some wing spar crack problems IIRC. I am not aware that they led to any incidents (incl. any groundings or anything) though.



` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
User currently offlineN754pr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6250 times:

I hope they find all these problems soon, we dont want more planes doing a CI 742!!

User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13197 posts, RR: 15
Reply 9, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5988 times:

This is rather disturbing. There are apparently serious flaws in the instructions from Boeing on how to work on these planes to limit this risk or people who work on these planes are taking shortcuts. Let us remember that shortcuts as to engine removal on DC-10's lead to the crash at ORD 25 years ago.

User currently offlineGreasespot From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 3086 posts, RR: 20
Reply 10, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5924 times:

I look at it this way. At least they are warning and not covering it up.

GS



Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
User currently offlineUA777222 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3348 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5905 times:

I agree with Greasespot, at least the airlines can do something about it. Does this have anything to do with that rumor of BA's fleet of 744's being grounded a while back? And is it the way that a/c was built or is it in the engine? The rumor was that the RR were having issues...

UA777222



"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
User currently offlineVorticity From United States of America, joined May 2004, 337 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5895 times:

Cracks on big planes like are no big deal when caught early,

Crack propogation lead to the deadly DC-10 accident in Chicago. When caught early perhaps is the important part there.

You remind me of a bunch of whiney old women with nothing to do but get all a quiver over something that is part of normal life at an airline.
Quit hiding in your old-lady purses...


That wasn't really necesary, we can discuss this without attacking people

[Edited 2004-06-09 17:19:59]


Thermodynamics and english units don't mix...
User currently offlineVorticity From United States of America, joined May 2004, 337 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5868 times:

There are various amounts of wear and tear that aircraft go through. From cracks and scratches to dings, dents and holes. How any of these are repaired, and how they are dealt with depends on the severity, their location and their impact on the aircraft.

Hidden cracks are dangerous! Because you don't know about them.

I don't know what these cracks that are mentioned are, how big, how severe, etc



Thermodynamics and english units don't mix...
User currently offlineRT514 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5670 times:

Disturbing. I truly hope that this is an isolated turn of events and not indicative of something larger.

Thanks for the post.


User currently offlinePrebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6537 posts, RR: 54
Reply 15, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5621 times:

The subject of this thread is not at all Lockheed, Boeing or anything like that.

It's all about unacceptable maintenance procedures. No more, no less.

When such things have been discovered on 40+ Boeing planes, then you can be damn sure that it has also been found on dozens of MDD, Airbus and Lockheed planes.

The only interesting things are:
- Who did that?
- Who bought second hand planes from those who did it?



Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
User currently offlineGearup From Canada, joined Dec 2000, 578 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5494 times:

This sort of thing has happened before with all aircraft builders. This is why there is a rigorous series of inspections to allow monitoring of the aging of the airframe to ensure that the aircraft performs as it should as predicted by testing and computer models. I remember being delayed departing YYZ because AC removed the 747-200 fleet from service for inspection due to cracking in the upper deck region. They found cracks, fixed them according to Boeing instructions and those airplanes flew for years afterward with no issues related to that incident. They could still be flying somewhere today. I would not minimize the seriouness of these sort of things but it is not time to write Boeing off as a builder of junk airplanes because all builders see these sort of issues. If you happen to be looking out an airport window at a Boeing jet that you are about to board while reading this thread, relax, don't worry about it just enjoy your flight!!


I have no memory of this place.
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17172 posts, RR: 66
Reply 17, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5048 times:

Crack propogation lead to the deadly DC-10 accident in Chicago. When caught early perhaps is the important part there

Not quite. The engine separated because the maintenance dudes were detaching the engine and pylon in a completely nonregulation way. Completely avoidable in other words.

Also, the pilots did not have the means to be aware of their split-flap condition. A simple nose down would have saved the plane. Not really their fault though. They followed the book, and unfortunately it bit them in the ass.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineVorticity From United States of America, joined May 2004, 337 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4960 times:

Not quite. The engine separated because the maintenance dudes were detaching the engine and pylon in a completely nonregulation way. Completely avoidable in other words.

Well, the maintenance personel created the crack. So yes, that case was completely preventable. It point was cracks are dangerous, if they go unchecked it can lead to disaster. I don't know if anyone spotted the crack after the bad procedure, but if they did, it could have been prevented.



Thermodynamics and english units don't mix...
User currently offlineSulman From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2037 posts, RR: 32
Reply 19, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4647 times:

The aircraft in question were Ex-Malaysian; it was - as has already been stated - caused by tools used to remove paint. The cracks were picked up during a routine 'D' check.

This is actually pretty old news.



It takes a big man to admit they are wrong, and I am not a big man.
User currently offlineNz1 From Australia, joined May 2004, 2275 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4588 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Sulman, you are right. The aircraft were ex MH and are VH-OEC and VH-OED (I think). Also to GREATANSETT, the Ansett 762's were grounded due to major cracking in the pylon upper link fitting, not the fuselage.

Regards
NZ1


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29832 posts, RR: 58
Reply 21, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4567 times:

Then it is what I thought it might be. Improper tool to do the job.

And yes, that comment about Lockheed was specificly aimed at the A vs. B warning.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineBigB From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 615 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4512 times:

This is the reason for US Airways.com livery on there older 737s.


ETSN Baber, USN
User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 36
Reply 23, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4458 times:

"Nature always sides with the hidden flaw." -Murphy

XV




How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (10 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4257 times:

"This is rather disturbing. There are apparently serious flaws in the instructions from Boeing on how to work on these planes to limit this risk or people who work on these planes are taking shortcuts. Let us remember that shortcuts as to engine removal on DC-10's lead to the crash at ORD 25 years ago."

LTBEWR:

This is not an issue on how Boeing recommends maintenance of the airplanes it builds. Rather it's an issue of a company using metal scapers to remove paint and or sealant. This is a big no no in maintenance. That's why I have a bunch of plastic scapers in my toolbox. I defy anyone to show me where Boeing, or any aircraft manufacturer, has authorized the use of metal scapers on the skin of their aircraft.


25 N685FE : The safety bulletin even stated that using plastic scrapers could cause scratches.
26 LHcapt2007 : LMP737 - So in general plastic scrapers are the recommended tool by Boeing? and if so, no one questions the use of metallic scrapers against the manuf
27 JHSfan : The variety of hardness of Plastics is huge. When it comes to removing paint it's generally a good idea to have at tool made by a hard material. Simpl
28 LMP737 : LHcapt2007: Why doesn't everyone use plastic or the recommended paint/sealant removal tool? Wish I knew the answer to that. There are many accident/in
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